#141118 - 08/02/2003 13:59
I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Sorry about the delay - but it's finally online. Feel to download the schematics at: http://www.benjammin.net/www/pages/library
Hookup instruction - I'm going to add those right now. I realized they aren't anywhere... so hold off downloading until I repost here.
As some of you may know, hiJack now supports it in the conf.ini file... maybe at some point Mark will make it a hiJack menu item which would be cool...
Enjoy, send questions, problems whatever...
-Ben
Edited by benjammin (08/02/2003 14:06)
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141119 - 08/02/2003 14:09
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/03/2002
Posts: 248
Loc: Swindon, UK
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Any chance you'll be building these so other can just install? (or at least making the pcb)
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Andy
MK2a 60GB Amber 040103916 32mb/Light Kit
MK2a 50GB Amber 030102560 32mb
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#141120 - 08/02/2003 14:14
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: skibum]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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I would be happy to get PCB's made, but I have no idea on the amount of them I would need. Everyone made it seem like they would rather build one on their own.
If I had some sort of count, I could get some done. I don't think they'd be terribly cheap though because of the low quantity.
But, I'd still be happy to do it... Let me know.
-Ben
p.s. Redownload the .PDF, I added hookup instructions.
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141121 - 08/02/2003 16:40
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Check out www.olimex.com for dirt cheap PCBs. They will do panelling free of charge - ie, if your design is 1"x2" then they will fit as many copies of that design into their standard sized boards as possible.
Single sided 160mm x 100mm = $21, so if you can get the design under 25mm x 50mm then you could get 12 for $21, +$8 S&H to the USA.
Double sided at $26 for the same size.
Either way you'd only be looking at under $35 for a production run of 12, with a cost per board of under $3. I'm reasonably certain that you'd move these and not make any loss.
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#141122 - 09/02/2003 09:14
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 159
Loc: Belgium
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The fact that it's controlled by Hijack really sounds interesting but what exactly does your schematic do?
Does it turn the fan on at a preset temp or does it raise the speed as the empeg gets hotter?
If it only turns on the fan at a certain temp, say 50° or so, what's the hysteresis? Wouldn't want to have the fan turn on / off / on / off at full speed every 2 minutes. Think I'd rather have it go faster as the temp gets hotter.
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#141123 - 09/02/2003 09:45
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: genixia]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Oooo, I'll check into them. I know the board could be made down to say 1"x1" - so yea... excellent.. I'll check them out.
-Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141124 - 09/02/2003 09:50
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: f_devocht]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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The controller has a Hi/Lo temp setting. You can set through hiJack what the hysteresis is. It's config'd through the .ini file. There's a post from Mark about it in our thread in the for sale section....
As for slowing the fan down... sometimes that's not the best idea. Some DC fan's don't like too low a voltage and then they stall. I played with some once like that and some don't restart without full off/on voltage again... So, it can be done, but without a controller like the max 6651 which has a tach feedback, you don't know if you've stalled out the motor.
Either way - I thought about that and considering I drive a jeep, I wouldn't really ever hear the fan anyway... so I opted for full on/off. There's another design floating around for those who want variable speed.
Thankfully, you have a choice! If you use the other design, more power to ya.
Enjoy...
-Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141125 - 09/02/2003 10:20
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 159
Loc: Belgium
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Actually I was thinking about combining both circuits 
No idea if it's possible though. Might look into it if I find the time.
Still, neat circuit.
Frank
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#141126 - 09/02/2003 12:09
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: f_devocht]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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If you want to hack around with the code, you could control the fan speed by modifying hijack to turn it on/off quicky, with varying duty cycles..
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#141127 - 09/02/2003 14:18
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Hmm, I get an error when trying to open the file (32 775 bytes) I received - "The root document is missing or invalid" (Acrobat Reader 5.0)
Anyone who's had better luck that's willing to send a copy? Email address is in my profile...
TIA,
/Michael
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/Michael
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#141128 - 09/02/2003 15:03
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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when did you download it?? Recently? Since the library script didn't do anything but text/plain or text/html. now it should do everything and I checked it against netscape and Pine. Should be fine. Ultimately, I can send it to you.. but not at the moment since I'm not in a place I can do it.
-ben-O-rama
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141129 - 09/02/2003 15:27
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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You've got mail...
Edit: My file was 32 795 bytes.
Stig
Edited by StigOE (09/02/2003 15:28)
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#141130 - 09/02/2003 15:48
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: StigOE]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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that sounds close enough... i think the official size when I look on the server is 32,777bytes
See yaz,
-ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141131 - 10/02/2003 00:06
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: StigOE]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Thanks,
can't get to my mail right now, will give it another try tonight.
As to when I got the download mail - late Saturday night CET time.
/Michael
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/Michael
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#141133 - 10/02/2003 22:17
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: f_devocht]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Well, there IS the option of getting an I2C based Fan controller that does Speed. The fan would have to have a Tach Output feedback to the chip (Maxim 6651) but that would require more programming on someone's behalf. The Circuit would also be a little bigger simply because the 6651 is a 16pin IC. (controls up to 4 fans which is kinda cool).
This works for me.. <shrug>
-Ben-O-Rama
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141134 - 10/02/2003 23:09
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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16 pin SOIC is hardly large enough to worry about. I think that getting the fan speed dealt with in hardware would be preferable to getting hijack to do PWM speed control. Sure, there would need to be some coding done, but it should be trivial compared to implementing a user-tweakable PWM control.
A (probably stupid) question - Are there suitable fans with tach output? I'd hate for everyone to go this route and be unable to get fans that woulf fit. I'm sure there are, but we should check 
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#141135 - 11/02/2003 10:01
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: genixia]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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supposedly... you can get just about any fan with a tach output from most companies...
again - I thought about it - but the programming requipements for mark would have been greater... didn't want to burden him...
I'd still like to see a menu where I can control/see the stats/setup in the hiJack menu...
-Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141136 - 11/02/2003 11:34
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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I'd still like to see a menu where I can control/see the stats/setup in the hiJack menu...
Bribe me.
It's unlikely that hijack would be able to store adjusted values directly in flash due to lack of flash space, but it should be possible to (assuming initial values are in config.ini) provide a display for them and adjust them on the fly. (which would help people tweak their values).
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#141137 - 12/02/2003 22:04
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: genixia]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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How could I bribe you?? Also I thought Mark would have to put it in since it's part of hiJack?
<shrug> What do I know.. I'm a HARDWARE guy.
-Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141138 - 12/02/2003 22:48
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Yeah, but you're forgetting that Mark accepts patches...
Let's put it this way - if a populated PCB turned up on my doorstep, it would be installed ASAP...
Otherwise, a copy of the final schematic, and an unpopulated PCB would probably result in me placing a digikey order.
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#141139 - 30/06/2004 23:23
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: genixia]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Well - after doing a bunch of boards with a company that let's me panelize for nothing (since I do the step-repeat myself) and I just chop 'em with a metal shear. (funny stuff)
Is anyone still interested in me having some of these done or has everyone who wanted to make on done it already...
Let me know (email me directly if you want)...
-Ben
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#141140 - 01/07/2004 14:26
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Please 
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#141141 - 01/07/2004 19:27
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/03/2002
Posts: 248
Loc: Swindon, UK
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me 2 please
_________________________
Andy
MK2a 60GB Amber 040103916 32mb/Light Kit
MK2a 50GB Amber 030102560 32mb
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#141142 - 02/07/2004 04:57
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Count me in for one.
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#141143 - 02/07/2004 16:27
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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journeyman
Registered: 23/08/2002
Posts: 93
Loc: South Texas
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#141144 - 28/08/2004 15:31
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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OK, ya - big delay - I got a fancy new schematic/pcb program and after many days of cranking out boards for work (pays the bills 'ya know) - I will be getting boards this week (with delivery next week)...
I will have schematics on my website that are updated... and so forth..
If you guys want some, EMAIL ME DIRECTLY so I can keep track of everyone...
Also, I don't know how much they'll be yet - I'm assuming you all want 'em stuffed or blank?
Let me know when you email me..
bkamen AT benjammin DOT net
See yaz!
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#141145 - 16/09/2004 23:25
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Boards came in while I went to Phoenix for some work anf fun... I'll be back next week and will assemble for those who asked...
-Ben
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#141146 - 01/10/2004 14:06
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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For anyone who'd like Fan controllers for their Empegs, I have PCB's both bare and assembled available now on my website at http://www.benjammin.net/www/pages/gizmos/EmpegBBS users get special pricing... so feel free to mention it when you order (and I'll verify you on the BBS) Cheers, -Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141147 - 01/10/2004 16:24
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Any timeline on the possibilty of paying by CC?
Or anyone in the US that is about to order and is willing to accept Paypal and forward a board across the Atlantic?
The costs for an international money order would be utterly ridiculous compared to the cost of the board...
_________________________
/Michael
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#141148 - 01/10/2004 17:07
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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PM me if you want me to do that for you. Happy Birthday by the way. 
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#141149 - 01/10/2004 17:24
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: robricc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Thanks & thanks! PM coming shortly.
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/Michael
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#141150 - 01/10/2004 18:10
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I'd really like to get one of these, but you don't accept PayPal and I'm not in the US. Cheques don't exist in Europe any more. Can we swap for goods?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#141151 - 01/10/2004 18:32
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Rob, you know I can send you stuff...
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#141152 - 01/10/2004 19:02
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: robricc]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Rob,
Actually, perhaps a bulk US to Europe order could be placed and then once received, distributed within Europe?
I would be happy to place the bulk order and take responsibility for distribution (I'm in the UK). I might even be tempted to place an RS components order and offer both bare boards and board+components kits.
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#141153 - 01/10/2004 19:36
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Happy Birthday Michael!
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~ John
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#141154 - 05/10/2004 11:52
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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I'm working on it.. I don't know right yet. Hopefully I'll have something soon.
As for those outside of USA, Do your banks offer online billpay? Mine does and I can set up anyone to receive a bank MO (no cost in terms of the check - can't say for the service - my bank offers it free). I paid a guy for a Logic Analyzer via bank billpay.
Just a thought..
-Ben
p.s. Sorry I didn't see these sooner. Please email me directly - I'll get back to you much much much faster. bkamen AT benjammin DOT net.
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#141155 - 05/10/2004 16:11
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Can only speak for myself, but yes, I do pay all my bills online (ie all the stuff from inside Sweden - rent, CCs, utilities etc - some of the bills even arrive in electronic format directly in the online bank), and can freely push money to others accounts (within Sweden), but an international money transfer they charge extra for. Within EU they typically charge €3 on the sending end - receiving bank also charges a fee and you have the option to pay for that from the sending end, to ensure the full amount actually reaches the recipient..
For non-EU money orders my bank charges ~$US 20 IIRC... and IME the receiving bank takes a chunk as well.
As it is, I'll be buying/paying through robricc.
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/Michael
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#141156 - 05/10/2004 20:59
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mtempsch]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Okay, I think there are enough people in Europe that are interested in this, so I am going to order 10 or 20. I intend to make them available both as bare boards and with parts at cost.
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#141157 - 06/10/2004 13:04
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Quote:
Okay, I think there are enough people in Europe that are interested in this, so I am going to order 10 or 20. I intend to make them available both as bare boards and with parts at cost.
I emailed you back... wow - all these people wanting boards... who knew? "build them and they will buy"... hahaha..
thanks guys!
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#141159 - 07/10/2004 07:29
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: StigOE]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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And now I'm replying to my own post... After I had read the datasheet a bit better and also rebootet my brain , I don't know if there is much point in making the board with the 6651... That chip is only a fan controller where you set the speed and the chip keeps the fan at the preset speed. It doesn't contain a temperature sensor, so either it would need to rely on the built-in temperature sensor in the Empeg or it would need an external temperature sensor. The fan wouldn't be PWM controlled either, it would be voltage controlled, as PWM and tach signals doesn't mix very well... And since Ben has already made boards with the temperature controller, so unless people want this type of board and someone makes the patch for Hijack, I'll just stop this project. But if someone wants some boards, it wouldn't take long to do the layout and make some boards, since I can make them at home... Stig
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#141160 - 21/10/2004 15:05
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: StigOE]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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You very funny man.. Also, I apologize, I completely forgot about the 6651 - I look at it too and saw all the busy-work involved... but I never mentioned it here.  Oops. Kick me later. -Ben
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Empeg Mk2 in fabulous green! Green Face, Green BackLit Buttons... GREEN...
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#141161 - 21/10/2004 17:27
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Okay, just put in an order for one of these guys. So who all has done this install? What fan did you use? How did you mount it? Photos?!
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#141162 - 21/10/2004 20:28
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Okay, just put in an order for one of these guys. So who all has done this install?
benjamin and mlord, I believe.
Quote:
What fan did you use?
general parts list - choose the thinnest 40mm x 40mm fan you can find for a good price. I'll be making some available for those in Europe in the next couple of weeks.
Quote:
How did you mount it?
Best to use some plastic rivets such as those listed on the parts guide. Check the diameter of the holes in your fan - if 3.1mm or 3.2mm the exact digikey/farnell/richco codes are fine. If 3.6 or 3.7mm, use Richco SR-3570B or SR-3580B. If 3.5mm, get a 3.6, 3.65 or 3.7mm drill and carefully enlarge the holes, then use the Richco codes I've just given.
Other BBS members have simply bedded the fan down onto a ring of silicone filler (the sort you use to seal bath-to-tile joins).
If you go the plastic rivet route, you may also want to use some small fibre or rubber washers from your local hardware store - between fan and case to reduce vibration noise a little. Either the flat or doughnut shaped washers are fine.
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#141163 - 21/10/2004 21:17
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Only two people? I thought there were tons of orders for the board.
Thanks for the pointers. I'll be doing it as soon as I get the board.
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#141164 - 22/10/2004 13:37
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Only two people?
Only two people of which I know.
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#141165 - 23/10/2004 14:49
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Don't panic on the fan!
I think I got mine here:
http://www.mpja.com/viewallpict.asp?dept=48&main=46
4x40 plastic screws work fine and I got mine at the local hardware store!
I have pics on my website in the Projects section...
If everyone needs, I'll take some hi-rez ones with my better digital camera and make them available.
-Ben
Edited by benjammin (23/10/2004 17:19)
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#141166 - 23/10/2004 22:16
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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So the fan can be a 12v OR a 5v?
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#141167 - 03/11/2004 03:25
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I got the board... nice work!
Now, could someone who has it installed and working post photos of the install? I'd really appreciate it!
Here's the instructions I have from Ben so far:
V+ is +12
GND is Ground.
Fan + and Fan - are the plus/minus leads from the fan. (12v Fan, of course)
SDA and SCL are the "Serial Clock" and "Serial Data" lines from the processor.
I have a photo of the 2 points in my Projects section... the second to last is
"dark" with highlight areas around the resistors, but it s doesn's say which is
SCL and which is SDA;
SDA can be found on the RIGHT HAND END of the resistor marked 1003 nearest
the top left corner of the strongarm (display board towards you).
SCL can be found on the TOP END of the resistor marked 1003 directly to the
right of the centre mounting hole.
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#141168 - 03/11/2004 08:46
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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12v can be found on both pins of the through-hole pad marked Fan, however I'm not sure whether this is regulated or unregulated 12v nor whether the controller is fussy about it. If this is suitable, I'd suggest soldering a 2-pin header through the holes, then soldering the 12v line to a jumper and plugging the jumper onto the header. I don't know of a good place to get GND (that is, so it is easy to undo). You could splice one of the cables or solder onto the back of one of the sockets (perhaps the serial D socket), but most seem to simply opt for soldering a wire to the pad ("collar") around one of the PCB screws.
I thought there was a 2-pin through-hole pad marked I2C or IIC towards one corner of the MK2A board somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong and there is only an IIS pad, not an I2C pad as well.
It might be useful to create a new album on riocar.org with hi-res photos of the front and back of each PCB board including the add-on boards - that would have certainly helped with the creation of the memory manual.
[Edit: fix spelling and clarify]
Edited by mdavey (03/11/2004 09:10)
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#141169 - 04/11/2004 02:17
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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So this fan should work perfect then eh? I'll try and take some photos this week and ask a few more questions before I go soldering willy nilly. Thanks!
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#141170 - 04/11/2004 09:21
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Check the depth of the fan and the noise rating. I'd suggest a fan with a noise rating of 20-26dB(A). Much less than 20dB(A) won't be worth the probable extra cost unless you are going to modify the shape of the holes in the lid. Beyond about 24dB(A) will be increasingly noticeable in a quiet room or with the engine off. You'll almost certainly need to modify the drive bay if you use a 20mm deep fan. 12mm or 10mm depth will be okay. 6mm deep fans tend to be a bit quieter but have less surface area so can't push quite as much air around.
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#141171 - 04/11/2004 16:13
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
So this fan should work perfect then eh?
Negative, those are 80mm fans. You want 40mm fans.
More importantly, you want them as thin as possible. Finding ones that are thin enough so that you can get the lid on and off the player without removing the display board each time, is very difficult.
Most are 10mm thick, and although you could make that fit, you would need to unscrew the display board each time you removed the player lid. BIG PAIN. There are fans that are 5-6mm thick, those are ideal if you can find them.
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#141172 - 04/11/2004 17:45
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Whoa, that's not the link i meant to post. I meant either this or this.
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#141174 - 04/11/2004 22:07
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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#141175 - 08/11/2004 19:59
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Okay. Got 'em. There's a third wire which, according to this option and this option, means that it they do have "BY IMPEDANCE WITH THIRD WIRE SPEED SENSOR (TACH OUTPUT)" (copied from their site). Interesting? I dunno.... can you guys do anything with that? I'm guess I can just cut that wire off...
So. I'm going to go take the empeg apart and take some photos of where I gather I should be soldering things in before I go ahead and do it so I can make sure I'm doing it right. Be back in a few.
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#141176 - 08/11/2004 20:16
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
can you guys do anything with that? I'm guess I can just cut that wire off...
Ben's circuit doesn't use the tach wire but someone may well come along with an add-on circuit at some point that can use the tach wire (StigOE was thinking about doing something with the Maxim/Dallas MAX 6650 / 6651 chips but probably won't have anything ready to offer until next year).
Don't cut it off - get some heat-shrink pvc tubing and pop over the end of the cable to eliminate any chance of it touching something it shouldn't.
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#141177 - 08/11/2004 21:32
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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ignore, image storage post =]
Attachments
240026-SCL_SDA_Small.jpg (500 downloads)
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#141178 - 08/11/2004 21:33
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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ignore again, image storage post =]
Attachments
240027-fan12V.jpg (651 downloads)
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#141179 - 08/11/2004 21:38
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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OKAY! So. Let's see if we have this correct:
(+) FAN - to fan positive wire
(-) FAN - to fan negative wire
SDA and SCL:
GND - Any Board mounting screw
+12V - One of these pins (which i measured at 11.33V):
All sound good?
Should I jumper A0, A1, and A2 on the controller board or leave them open?
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#141180 - 09/11/2004 16:41
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Sorry for the bump, but could those in the know please confirm all this? I really need to get this in today!
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#141181 - 09/11/2004 17:24
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Top photo looks correct (matches my own photo). Dunno about the bottom photo -- my memory is blank on that.
Cheers
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#141182 - 09/11/2004 17:29
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Should I jumper A0, A1, and A2 on the controller board or leave them open?
Leave them open (assuming they float to 0V that way).
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#141183 - 09/11/2004 18:05
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mlord]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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mlord wrote: Quote:
Top photo looks correct (matches my own photo). Dunno about the bottom photo -- my memory is blank on that.
Loren,
Regarding the bottom photo, it doesn't matter which pin you use they are connected together on the board. It will be easiest to solder the free end of the 12v wire to a jumper then simply plug the jumper into those two pins.
As I indicated in a previous post, I'm not sure whether those pins supply regulated or unregulated 12v. You could try comparing the voltmeter reading here with the voltmeter reading across the outputs of the power supply brick while it is connected to the Empeg. In any case, I'd definately check with Benjammin that his circuit will be happy in the car with the 12v wire connected to these pins, before putting your Empeg back into your car.
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#141184 - 09/11/2004 18:10
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Should I jumper A0, A1, and A2 on the controller board or leave them open?
Leave them open. You only need to jumper them if you want to hook up multiple boards to a single Empeg and then you'll also need component RA1 which you probably don't have. I'm not even sure that Hijack knows about boards at other addresses right now so some minor Hijack changes might be needed also.
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#141185 - 10/11/2004 02:14
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Hooked 'er all up, and it's not working. Argh!
Here's my config.ini where it matters:
[hijack]
khttpd_root_index=/drive0/opt/khttpd/charcoalgray99/index.html
fan_control=1
fan_low=25
fan_high=55
The High Temp Warning is reading:
Curently: +32C/+89F
and my little fan ain't whirling. I'ce checked that I'm getting 12v to the controller board and the wires are where they should be. . . any ideas? Am I not understanding how the hijack settings work? Mark, could you explain them in more detail? Thanks!!!
Attachments
240209-fan_wired.jpg (575 downloads)
Edited by loren (10/11/2004 02:57)
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#141186 - 10/11/2004 02:55
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The Hijack controls are pretty simple and rudimentary -- you've already got them figured out. Here are my notes to myself on this:
Quote:
simply turns it on and sets the high/low thermostat thresholds
from data in config.ini:
[hijack]
fan_control=1 ;; enable control of i2c fan thermostat
fan_low=45 ;; set fan-off threshold (degrees C)
fan_high=48 ;; set fan-on threshold (degrees C)
Note that the I2C thingie has its own thermostat, which may or may not agree with that built-into the empeg.
Try smaller numbers for fan_high.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (10/11/2004 02:56)
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#141187 - 10/11/2004 02:59
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Ahhh... i didn't have them figured after all. So high is the temp that the fan turns on, and low off. I'd don't know wtf i was thinking it was...heheh. Lemme try that. BRB...
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#141188 - 10/11/2004 04:32
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Sweet. That seems to have worked! That little fan can move some air. I've set it for low=40 high=48, so we'll see how it performs in car. I came up with a pretty clean mounting solution, I'll post pics in a few minutes.
Thanks Mark, Benjamin, and Michael for all your help!
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#141189 - 10/11/2004 04:40
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Hey loren,
Did you get your fan to work?
did you see Benjamin's pictures? it looks like he is using a connector to the pcb board instead of soldering each wire to the board like you did.
How will you mount the board?
How did you solder to the scl and sda on the empeg board? is it okay to just solder at either end of each?
thanks.
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#141190 - 10/11/2004 04:44
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Loren,
Do you think a fan would work in a two drive empeg? I am not sure if the ribbon cable could be routed below the drives (nearer the motherboard) so the fan could blow directly on the drives. If the ribbon cable goes on top of the drives would a fan work?
thanks
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#141191 - 10/11/2004 04:53
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Here's a shot of the wiring layout and where I mounted the board. I used some 3M double sided tape, the thick stuff.
Attachments
240234-fan_controller_mount.jpg (687 downloads)
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#141192 - 10/11/2004 04:54
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Here is a close up of the controller mounted with the drives installed.
Attachments
240235-fan_controller_mount_close.jpg (685 downloads)
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#141193 - 10/11/2004 04:55
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Here's a shot of how I mounted the fan from the bottom. I used two zip ties.
Attachments
240236-fan_mount_bottom.jpg (760 downloads)
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#141194 - 10/11/2004 04:56
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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And finally here's a shot of the mount from the top of the lid. Mounted from front to back so the zip ties don't catch when removing from the sled, and they are pretty thin so it shouldn't be a problem. I have yet to try it in car, but it works well in my mlord dock.
Attachments
240237-fan_mount_top.jpg (445 downloads)
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#141195 - 10/11/2004 05:13
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: woops]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
Did you get your fan to work?
Yeap. Looks that way so far =]
Quote:
did you see Benjamin's pictures? it looks like he is using a connector to the pcb board instead of soldering each wire to the board like you did.
I think that photo is of a prototype board. It doesn't look like the final board you can see in my photos.
Quote:
How will you mount the board?
3M double sided tap to the back of the case.
Quote:
How did you solder to the scl and sda on the empeg board? is it okay to just solder at either end of each?
I just added a bit of solder to the resistors on the board, then reheated it with the iron and attached the wire.
Quote:
If the ribbon cable goes on top of the drives would a fan work?
Yeap. It works fine in a two drive empeg with the cable on top. That's what mine is. Oh, and you don't want the fan blowing ON the drives, you want it sucking the hot air OUT of the case. At least that's how it's done on almost all computers I've ever seen. =]
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#141196 - 10/11/2004 07:21
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Hey Loren,
Nice install. You made a good job of routing those wires!
In your opinion, where else would work well as a mounting location for the controller board?
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#141197 - 10/11/2004 11:49
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Loren,
Thanks for the photos, documentation, and showing the way!
Please clarify 2 things:
You said:
"I just added a bit of solder to the resistors on the board, then reheated it with the iron and attached the wire. "
Does that mean you attached the wire to ONE END of each resistor? I ASSUME it didn't matter which end?
It looks like you put a jumper on the header and soldered to both prongs, is that correct?
Thanks.
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#141198 - 10/11/2004 14:31
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: woops]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Attach to the end of the resistor that the arrow points to.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#141199 - 10/11/2004 14:48
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I would consider adding some hot melt glue blobs to stick down the new wires near where each connects to the empeg main board. That way, the wires won't vibrate off of their solder joints quite so quickly.
Cheers
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#141200 - 10/11/2004 15:00
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: woops]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Does that mean you attached the wire to ONE END of each resistor?
Yes
Quote:
I ASSUME it didn't matter which end?
You assume wrong. Loren was very careful to superimpose arrows on the photo to indicate which end of each resistor the appropriate wire should be soldered. Take another look
Quote:
It looks like you put a jumper on the header and soldered to both prongs, is that correct?
The attached photo shows a close-up of how most jumpers appear. That little copper bridge connects the left-hand pin to the right-hand pin. Apply a little solder to the bridge and make a tiny J loop with the wire. Hook the wire under the bridge then heat bridge and wire together. When hot, apply a little solder to "glue" the wire to the bridge. Don't keep the soldering iron on it too long as the plastic insulation on the jumper and/or wire will begin to melt. It helps to use a soldering iron with a fine tip.
Once cool, you could slide a little heat-shrink sleeving over the jumper if you like and then use a hot air gun (paint stripper gun) or hair dryer to shrink the sleeving. Take sensible precautions to protect your fingers and work area from heat damage!
Once done, you can simply plug the jumper onto both the pins on the mainboard.
Edited by mdavey (10/11/2004 15:10)
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#141201 - 10/11/2004 16:10
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
In your opinion, where else would work well as a mounting location for the controller board?
Hrm... That's definitely the cleanest mounting spot I could find. If you have the digital outs punched there, that obviously wouldn't work though. You could lay it any number of places on top of the main board secured with some hot melt glue, towards the back might be better as you have more clearance from the drive tray. The controller doesn't have any contacts on the bottom so it shouldn't be a problem.
All the other questions were answered... thanks guys!
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#141202 - 10/11/2004 16:21
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Loren,
You've made it crystal clear!
Thanks again....
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#141203 - 11/11/2004 04:11
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mlord]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Well, they don't "float" to 0V, but yes, they are grounded by default... and leave them that way - they set the address of the DS1721 on the I2C bus... and Mark (Lord) wrote the support for that ID on the bus.
Sorry I haven't been watching the list so closely... I've been swamped at work (another 13 day.. yay)...
Nice pics, Loren, I know I need to update mine... in fact, I'm gonna do that now...
One of these days when I have a minute, I'm going to rip out my old fan controller and put in a new one...
Thanks to everyone else for helping those with questions...
-Ben
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#141204 - 11/11/2004 04:28
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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There's 2 pads off in the back corner I used for +12 and GND... they are next to the coax power plug...
I need to check again which one was which, but I just hit them up with a VOM and went on autopilot installing it...
-Ben
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#141205 - 11/11/2004 04:35
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: mdavey]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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On the topic of 12V vs 5V.....
the fan will definitely put up with 13.8 and even a little more like the car might put out...
The DS1721 has a resistor with a 5.1V zener diode.. so in a sense, it has its own 5v supply.
As I mentioned, I used the +12V pads that are in the back corner next to the coax connector for external power. They're in parallel with the power input from the sled connector. Thus, the fan will operate when plugged into wall or car.
Enjoy.
p.s. my Image editor for windows seems hosed... might if I borrow the one you posted Loren?
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#141206 - 11/11/2004 06:30
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: benjammin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
might if I borrow the one you posted Loren?
By all means, help yourself.
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#141207 - 23/11/2004 23:47
Re: I2C Fan Controller for Empeg
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Quote:
Quote:
Did you get your fan to work?
Yeap. Looks that way so far =]
Quote:
did you see Benjamin's pictures? it looks like he is using a connector to the pcb board instead of soldering each wire to the board like you did.
I think that photo is of a prototype board. It doesn't look like the final board you can see in my photos.
Definitely a "proto" - when I did only one... I just hand wired it. At some point, I'll connect a new one in there to replace the original.
Quote:
Quote:
How will you mount the board?
3M double sided tap to the back of the case.
I used a dab of hot melt.
Quote:
Quote:
How did you solder to the scl and sda on the empeg board? is it okay to just solder at either end of each?
I just added a bit of solder to the resistors on the board, then reheated it with the iron and attached the wire.
That's how to do it.. use a LOW WATTAGE IRON. And be quick with the connections. Use enough heat, but I don't stick around more than 3 seconds or so...
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#141208 - 16/07/2005 22:46
Not workin'
[Re: benjammin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I've had a suspision since I installed this thing that it wasn't working... and I'm pretty dang sure now it's not.
Two reasons:
First, I took the empeg apart, and held the exhaust from my butane soldering iron in the area of the DS1721 temp chip on the I2C board to the point where it definitely was hotter than the threshold I've got it set at... 25 degrees C. No fan movement.
Second, When power is applied to the empeg, the fan momentarily oscillates and then goes still. The center of the spindle gets warm to the touch the longer it's on, and there is resistance to movement when I try and rotate it by hand, more so than when the power is off... like it is fighting same charged poles on a magnet, if that makes sense.
I've metered the obvious points... the board is getting 12V (11V to be exact). I am at a loss as to what else to test, and am a bit peeved I paid for this board when I could just hook the fan straight to 5V and be done with it.
Is there ANYONE who can verify that their board works?? And any help on troubleshooting this is GREATLY appreciated!!!
EDIT: Well... hmm... I put it all back together, and when I plugged the empeg in to AC the fan spun up and is working fine. Color me puzzled!
Edited by loren (16/07/2005 23:09)
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#141209 - 17/07/2005 00:11
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Mmmm.. I wonder if maybe some stray bits at power-on cause the init sequence to fail once in a while?
When that happens, Hijack outputs "Fan control error; disabling" to the serial console. I suppose it really should do a retry or two before giving up completely, though. Mmmm...
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#141210 - 17/07/2005 10:23
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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I have used the fan controller board for many months now. The hijack settings are such that the fan should come on everytime and the fan used allows me to hear it working when it is on. There is definitely a problem in that (what seems to be randomly) the hijack "fan control error" will show up and the fan will not cut on. I have to reboot a few times until the fan runs. Mlord: Please check that "Random bits at power up" problem you are mentioning. maybe delay that reading or something. (heh: i couldn't program a phone number)
woops
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#141211 - 17/07/2005 15:26
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Hrm... I've never looked at the console to see if it spit anything out about the fan controller... would it help if I could also prove that is occuring? Thanks for thinkin' about it Mark!
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#141212 - 17/07/2005 15:27
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yeah, if you could prove it's getting that message, then perhaps I'll try a change or two to the code and then have you re-test to see if it helps.
I have a fan controller here, but it is not currently installed in any of my players.
cheers
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#141213 - 17/07/2005 15:34
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Mmm.. actually, the existing code seems to try to use a front-panel pop-up message to report failure, as well as the serial console log.
Fan Control Error (displayed for five seconds).
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#141214 - 17/07/2005 15:38
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Updated Hijack with fan retries is now here. Please FIRST verify that you can get the current Hijack to fail with console or front-panel messages as noted in this thread, and only THEN try the replacement. Report back here afterward. Cheers
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#141215 - 17/07/2005 15:44
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Quote:
the board is getting 12V (11V to be exact). I am at a loss as to what else to test, and am a bit peeved I paid for this board when I could just hook the fan straight to 5V and be done with it.
Figure out if it's working and let me know ASAP (directly please)... we'll figure out something to do from there if you're not happy with it.
-Ben
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#141216 - 18/07/2005 14:31
Re: Not workin'
[Re: benjammin]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Ben,
I have been curious to ask you: Have you never had any problem with the fan starting? No hijack "Fan Controller Error" messages?
I've tried the 435 hijack mlord just posted and am getting about the same number of random fan starts and fan not starts, i haven't seen the "Fan Controller Error" message though. But i've only started empeg about 12 times in car and @ home. I believe i would have seen that message in 12 starts though.
woops
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#141217 - 20/07/2005 03:57
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Mark:
I've never received an error message pop up, but I just plugged it up via serial and received this error:
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Then, upon several reboots, it printed out
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error; disabling
and showed the fan control error popup for the first time (that I've noticed at least, which given it's frequency now seems to point to the fact that I've never noticed it =), so it seems that sometimes it doesn't get to the stage of printing out that error and triggering the pop up.
I'm on Hijack 413 on a MkIIa (no idea why I haven't updated in ages). I've rebooted 15 times at least and it has printed that message every time, sometimes with the "Fan control error" line, sometimes not.
AFTER upgrading to hijack435+, I get the following:
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: command issue failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: command issue failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error; disabling
So now I can't get it to work at all, after about 20 reboots. I guess that one time I noticed it working was a fluke?
Ben:
No worries, I'm sure we'll figure it out.
Again, thanks to both of you for working on this!
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#141218 - 20/07/2005 13:50
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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I just came back from a trip to town. I restarted the car 4 times and the fan came on every time. yesterday the fan worked every time (twice). These are all occurances where the ignition was turned on (not just turn ignition to accessory as when i tested before). Needless to say i'm starting to be very happy with ver 435.
Loren,
If your fan has never worked, then i suggest the wiring is not correctly installed.
woops
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#141219 - 20/07/2005 14:26
Re: Not workin'
[Re: woops]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
Loren,
If your fan has never worked, then i suggest the wiring is not correctly installed.
The fan HAS worked, just not frequently. I know it worked when I installed it, as is noted way earlier in this thread when I said "wow that little fan can move some air" or something to that effect. I also saw it work a few days back when I took the empeg apart to check all of the wiring. I'm fairly certain it's installed correctly, as the photos earlier in this thread of my install were checked as being correct by Benjamin and others.
Note that I haven't checked it in car with the new hijack however, these tests have all been AC power or in one of Mark's Docks.
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#141220 - 20/07/2005 16:13
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Loren,
Try some tests in the car. Can you hear your fan working if everything is quite in the car? Also, set hijack so the fan will ALWAYS cut on so you can get a better read on when and when it is not working. I will be interested in knowing what is going on that your fan is not working...so i hope you will keep us posted (pun?)
woops
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#141221 - 20/07/2005 16:49
Re: Not workin'
[Re: woops]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Unfortunately I can't tell if the fan is on in the car as the fan I am using is whisper quiet. Only way would be if I pulled the sled to be able to visually confirm it spinning. I have the temp setting at min 15 and max 18 so it should be on all the time.
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#141222 - 20/07/2005 20:39
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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Loren,
Just for test purposes at least try the RadioShack Part #273-240 40mm 1 9/16" brushless fan.7.7 CFM and enough noise that when music isn't playing you can hear it. I use it and it works well.
woops
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#141223 - 20/07/2005 23:53
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Mmm.. Ben'll have to help out with this one. If Hijack cannot talk to it to set the thermostat, then the fan isn't going to spin no matter which model/brand of fan is used.
Mmm...
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#141224 - 21/07/2005 17:33
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 24/04/2002
Posts: 78
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mlord,
can you increase the loop time by a third for receiving fan data bits? I mean the fan works most of the time now and every time using hijack reboot. i can't tell you how much angst this has eliminated.
woops
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#141225 - 21/07/2005 19:32
Re: Not workin'
[Re: woops]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I don't think the retry loop is useful at all. But in the meanwhile, I have just now looked at the original i2c code that clocks the bits out, and found something suspicious there that might have an effect. So I've changed it slightly, and the resulting Hijack kernel is here. Again, try this one out folks, and if it solves your fan problems then I'll incorporate the changes into a proper release. -ml
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#141226 - 21/07/2005 20:00
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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with Latest Hijack:
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error, retrying
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write8: device select failed
Fan control error; disabling
player.cpp : 385:empeg-car 2.00 2003/04/01.
Prolux 4 empeg car - 2.1434 Mar 26 2003
Vcb: 0x4089d000
I also wanted to note that yesterday I did a bit of driving and pulled the empeg a few times and never got the fan control error pop up, however I still have no way of knowing if the fan is spinning in car. Is there any reason Car vs. AC would make a difference?
Edited by loren (21/07/2005 20:02)
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#141227 - 21/07/2005 20:54
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Well, in the car, the player has to visibly pause to output those error messages, because the baud rate is so much slower in car (unless you've up'd it to 115200 in config.ini).
That's about the only difference I can see.
If you're in the testing mood, I'll spin another kernel for you here in a minute or two.. this one SLOWS down the I2C protocol immensely, BECAUSE TALKING SLOW WORKS SOMETIMES FOR FOREIGNERS
UPDATE: Okay, try this.
-ml
Edited by mlord (21/07/2005 20:56)
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#141228 - 21/07/2005 21:08
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Heheh, I guess you weren't talking slow enough:
player.cpp : 385:empeg-car 2.00 2003/04/01.
Prolux 4 empeg car - 2.1434 Mar 26 2003
Vcb: 0x4089d000
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write: address select failed
i2c: Failed to receive ACK for data!
i2c_write: address select failed
Notice the different error message however... Thanks for plugging on this.
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#141229 - 21/07/2005 21:44
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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YOU NEED TO MAKE IT TALK LOUDER, TOO!
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#141230 - 21/07/2005 21:45
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I still have no way of knowing if the fan is spinning in car.
Have you tried putting baseball cards in the spokes? Or the computer-fan equivalent?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#141231 - 21/07/2005 21:51
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Okay, I think this proves that Loren's fan controller is either dead, or disconnected.
Cheers
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#141232 - 22/07/2005 17:11
Re: Not workin'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Just for the hell of it, I tried again ... and it seemingly worked, no error in the terminal and no pop up.
Rebooted... no error message again. Hmm...
Pulled it out of the dock and stuck straight AC so I can see the fan... No error message, but the fan's not spinning. Same thing, multiple times. The fans jiggles a bit on boot up but that's it. Any further troubleshooting ideas?
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#141233 - 25/07/2005 17:41
Re: Not workin'
[Re: woops]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Quote:
I have been curious to ask you: Have you never had any problem with the fan starting? No hijack "Fan Controller Error" messages?
I've tried the 435 hijack mlord just posted and am getting about the same number of random fan starts and fan not starts, i haven't seen the "Fan Controller Error" message though. But i've only started empeg about 12 times in car and @ home. I believe i would have seen that message in 12 starts though.
I have never seen something pop up on my screen until I recently upgraded to the latest (v434 I think) and I had some config.ini issues with the files/dirs options which were no longer valid (but were still listed in the EMPEG FAQ).
Otherwise, my fan works great.... it needs it in my jeep. No A/C.
Loren, you can always mail it back to me and I can test it for you. Verify that the SDA and SCL lines are hooked in the right places.
A condition of "NO ACK" would definitely be an I2C bus issue...
Let me know - Email me directly...
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#141234 - 25/07/2005 17:48
Re: Not workin'
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 11/08/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Champaign, IL
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Quote:
Pulled it out of the dock and stuck straight AC so I can see the fan... No error message, but the fan's not spinning. Same thing, multiple times. The fans jiggles a bit on boot up but that's it. Any further troubleshooting ideas?
Well, to test mine, I just set config.ini to something I know would spin the fan on... and it always worked...
If you do that, and the fan STILL doesn't come on - check that:
1. The fan has +V (you can use a +5 or +12 VDC fan, but I only used +12, so I know that works).
2. The line coming from the DS1721 is logic HIGH (you can use a volt-meter if you want - an oscilloscope is not needed).
if those conditions are met, then only one of 2 things can be it...
1: bad fan.
2: bad MOSFET (2N7002) that controls the fan.
-Ben
p.s. Sorry if my involvement has been random - The grant I worked under here at Univ of IL ended and I've been trying to find other employment as such... you all can email me any time you have a question if I seem non-responsive here...
I was never in the mind-set of getting rich making these controllers.. I just wanted to pay a for the boards and such... you guys need to be happy with working stuff. If it doesn't work - tell me ASAP!
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#141235 - 03/01/2006 22:34
Re: Not workin'
[Re: benjammin]
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member
Registered: 03/05/2003
Posts: 131
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Has anyone got an alternate email for Ben? I contacted him about having boards and he said he still had some and then when I asked where to send money all of the emails have bounced back as undeliverable. I hand wired up this circuit utilizing a smd proto board and just get constant fan control error so I think maybe I need to stick with his PC board... but I need to get in touch with him
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