Here is a tool that will put a spell check into your right-click menu. It will not cure us from using "it's" instead of "its" or "your" instead of "you're" but it's a start.

http://www.lurkhere.com/~nicefiles/spellcheck.zip

And I do mean this with all due respect. I'm glad that someone has consistantly kept us up to standard. (Can you tell I havn't installed this tool yet?)

(Can you tell I havn't installed this tool yet?)

No kidding?!

Atomica Slingshot is great for this sort of thing. It took me forever to remember what it was called, as I haven't used it in a few months, and they've changed from GuruNet to Atomica, then to Slingshot (although keeping the Atomica name). Anyway, the free version lets you use the dictionary, spell check, thesaurus, acronym, and encyclopedia. Quite handy. Not to mention the full, paid version has many more features.

I now have it re-installed.

For wfaulk ... Here is a tool that will put a spell check into your right-click menu

This assumes that

1. I'm using Windows (rarely true)
2. When using Windows, I'm using IE (also rarely true)
3. I need an automated spelling checker (never true! )

Actually, I use OmniWeb most of the time, and it has a built-in check-as-you-go spell checker that requires no external interface. It's quite nice. But, of course, with all the jargon and abbreviations used in places like this, much of my posts are underlined in red, anyway, and I have to ignore it.

I wasn't implying that you'd use the tool yourself. I can't imagine that you'd need it. I just thought it'd make reading posts less painful for you.

Aha! Good point!

Phew,.... war has been averted

Tom actually added a link to IEspell in the main BBS FAQ a long time ago...

I think all the kvetching that's done about grammar and spelling is unnecessary, and borders on elitism. Some people who come to the board don't even speak English as their native language. Even when that's not the case, there are others who are simply bad spellers, or do not exhibit perfect grammar. I'd personally rather have their comments here, bad spelling and all, than have them leave because they feel slighted by people who are correcting them constantly.

It's not like you don't get the message when someone misspells a word or uses poor grammar, and if it's so horribly unreadable, then you can just skip to the next message. Correcting someone here isn't going to suddenly make their spelling/grammar any better, and just adds to the noise of the BBS. I myself have sometimes found some of the grammatical mistakes funny, but there are far too many times where we're picking on people for tiny spelling/grammar mistakes, and it just gets old.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today, but do we REALLY need people to run a spell checker for BBS posts?

I personally read every post I make to verify that there are no spelling errors in them. It just bugs me. I don't mind reading other people's mistakes, I just don't like to make them. There's just something that makes me cringe when I see an error on paper, as it were.

I'd personally rather have their comments here, bad spelling and all, than have them leave because they feel slighted by people who are correcting them constantly.

I thought that all talk about grammar and spelling on this BBS has been intended as good, clean fun. I would hope that no one feels slighted by it.

but do we REALLY need people to run a spell checker for BBS posts?

Yes.

Poor spelling and grammar should not be excused. This just leads to laziness.

If English is not someone's first language, then I'll let it slide, although I'd hope that the person would be amenable to (subtle) corrections, in the interests of learning English. If I posted to a French BBS (which I don't), I know I'd appreciate being (gently) corrected.

Besides, most of the people on this BBS who have don't English as their first language seem to have better spelling and grammar than those of us who do.

Typos are forgivable, to a point; but does it really take that long to proof-read a post?

Dyslexia or similar are another problem. I'd let that slide.

Poor grammar, on the other hand, can often lead to a post being unreadable. In this case, gently asking the OP to clarify what they've written can lead to two favourable outcomes: the readers understand what's being asked/said, and the OP (hopefully) learns something.

Also, consider this:

A post is written once, but read many times. Would it not be better for everyone if it was proof-read once by the author, rather than multiple times by the readers.

Gently correcting spelling and grammar is a good thing. There is (certainly) a time and a place for it. I'd argue that the BBS is as good a place as any other, as long as the corrections are gentle and don't cause offence.

I don't think that anybody on this BBS has been/would be harsh when pointing out mistakes. There are usually subtle ways to draw attention to an error and gently correct it without pointing fun at the original poster (I've outlined a couple above).

Remember that people come here for help. They can reach a wider audience if their posts are correctly spelt and are understandable, otherwise most people just skip to the next post.

I thought that all talk about grammar and spelling on this BBS has been intended as good, clean fun. I would hope that no one feels slighted by it.

I've seen examples of both, and some which were probably somewhere in between. I would also hope that nobody takes any of it personally, but that's not my judgement to make. Which is why I think we should let more of it go rather than crusading for perfect spelling and grammar.

Unless it's a funny Freudian slip or something. Then, by all means.

I'm trying to dig up the thread from at least a year back when this was first brought up. I thought it was one of the best we had here and Bitt went out of his way to clarify that he wasn't being elitist and many of us commented that we liked to be kept on our toes a bit. The only time that anyone has been asked to be more clear is when they spit out 4 word posts asking for help.

I remember after reading that thread, I felt even more pride in being a part of this BBS.

I agree... it's more an attempt at personal excellence than of judging someone else. I don't remember anyone correcting the grammar of someone that doesn't speak English well.
This also brings up an interesting point. How long will it take before the grammar found in email, chat rooms, and forums becomes accepted in other media. Or a different angle, if we don't use proper english online why use it offline?

there are others who are simply bad spellers, or do not exhibit perfect grammar

And this is excusable why?

they feel slighted

This is a different problem -- either the person takes offence easily, in which case they should just get over themselves -- or the person doing the correction wasn't careful enough to avoid offence, in which case they need to be reminded to be more polite.

picking on people

It never comes across to me as 'picking on people'. Maybe I need to be reminded to be more polite?

And this is excusable why?

Because not everyone on this BBS is as educated or naturally intelligent as everyone else on the BBS, and I would prefer that peoples' ideas were reflected here regardless of how well they did in English class. People don't come here to have their spelling/grammar coached. They come here to talk about the empeg, and sometimes in this particular forum, to discuss other things.

At the end of the day, I agree that a person out in the real world is going to be judged on the basis of their communication skills. But on the BBS, I see the correcting of minor mistakes as more nit-picking than it is actually trying to help someone else. You seem to think it's the latter, so I guess we just interpret it differently.

I am not saying this is an epidemic, but I have seen examples where I thought it was more than a "gentle" correction. I've seen other forums (and in my distant past, dialup BBSes) gang up on users with less-than-perfect use of English and scare them away. Now, most of us are nice, agreeable people, but this topic seems to come up a lot, even on minor offenses.

And, to be honest, the rules of English grammar are obscenely complicated to begin with, and I think that a lot of the "mistakes" people make which sneak their way into the langauge are just a natural part of the evolution of the language itself.

I agree that grammar and spelling are both important, though not to the point of being nasty. I’m sure I’ve written plenty of things here that have had misspellings or grammar mistakes, but I also feel that I’ve put forth enough effort that others can see I take what I say seriously. If what we are trying to do here is communicate with others (and I can think of no other reason for a BBS), then it behooves us put forth a reasonable amount of effort into being clear about what we say. I believe it is a mark of respect to others when we take the time to make our words as readable as possible.

I go, you go, he goes, they go?!?! Who made THAT rule up?

Correcting someone here isn't going to suddenly make their spelling/grammar any better

Actually, because of Bitt correcting my use of "it's" once, I find myself paying attention to its proper use.

I personally never intend to add a mandatory spell checker to the board. Anything server side becomes annoyning and useless. Client side spell checking is the way to go for those that wish to use it. I'm still hoping that Chimera or Safari gets around to implementing the type as you go checking soon, as I prefer either of them over OmniWeb due to tabbed browsing.

How long will it take before the grammar found in email, chat rooms, and forums becomes accepted in other media. Or a different angle, if we don't use proper english online why use it offline?

So what if it does? Languages evolve. Is that bad?

I mean, I don't think that newspaper columnists will ever be typing things like:

"/me agrees with the President"

or

"IWBNI Alan Greenspan reduced interest rates, cuz I'm broke, yo."

But colloquialisms creep into common use all the time. The Internet has its own jargon, and some of those things will find their way into the language over time too. What's so terrible about that?

Amin!

It has begun.

In reply to:

---

But colloquialisms creep into common use all the time. The Internet has its own jargon, and some of those things will find their way into the language over time too. What's so terrible about that?

---

Colloquialisms are fine and they do creep into languages all the time. They creep in even with rather strict enforcement and education dealing with language norms. On the internet, outside of a handful of forums like this one, there is little enforcement at all of rules of grammar. (At least without the flaming you mentioned above which is usually more about meanness than grammar.) The open acceptance of radically altered grammar could serve as a catalyst to this change. Since the grammatical and spelling changes normal to the internet are largely utilitarian, it would in my opinion greatly vandalize what is capable of beauty.

By the way, my spell check caught 3 misspelled words in this post.

I dunno, I'm not here on a crusade against proper grammar. I just think people need to focus more on the message and less on the vehicle. Since there are very few times when the vehicle (the spelling/grammar) is so broken that the message doesn't come across.

I think the issue the Rev is trying to address is one of laziness, not language. I’ve already noticed people tend to write things to me in emails that they wouldn’t write in personal letters. I don’t know why this is, but when it comes to electronic messaging people begin to feel taking the time to write “properly” isn’t necessary anymore. For people who don’t have language skills, I’ll agree that they shouldn’t be held up to as high a standard as those who do. However, for people who do possess the skills and simply don’t take the time to use them, this can easily lead to the use of “lazy” language in other, non-electronic mediums.

While I understand your argument that this is simply language evolution, I don’t agree. Though some grammar rules seem useless, there are others that exist for very good reasons: to bring clarity to what you say. Certainly spelling is one of these, and I can say that by practicing good spelling in everything I write (electronic or not) my spelling has definitely improved. Still, spelling is often ignored in electronic messaging and it is no great stretch to see how this “laziness” can impact communication in other mediums.

I would prefer that peoples' ideas were reflected here regardless of how well they did in English class.

As would I. However, as FerretBoy says, if people are trying to communicate effectively, they should put a certain amount of effort into what they write.

Now, on this BBS, I've rarely had a problem understanding what someone has posted, and when I have, some gentle prompting usually allows me to understand them.

I guess that it simply irritates me when people are willing to excuse poor grammar when it's caused through laziness, rather than through lack of education/experience.

I guess we just interpret it differently.

I guess we do. I've not perceived an appreciable amount of nit-picking. You have. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

the rules of English grammar are obscenely complicated to begin with

So are the rules of cricket, but if you want to play...

Hey, I don't know. Maybe I should have been born French, then I could have aspired to the Academie Francais .

other mediums

...other media?

Maybe I should have been born French, then I could have aspired to the Academie Francais

You mean l'Academie Français, right?

sPe11iNg sU><orS