Is it as good as the hype or is it a MIB2?

I've been waiting for this to come up!

I thought it was great. Not as good as the first one (come one, who'd expect it to be?) but lots of fun. It has a lot more philosophizing than the first movie (or maybe the same amount, but it’s in-your-face in this one) that turned off a lot of the people from my office. I like that stuff and ate it up though, so it just depends on what you like. Even if you’re only interested in action, it’s well worth the price of admission. Rarely, if ever, have I spent as much time in a single movie with an excited grin plastered on my face. The car chase scene is like no other.

There were a few downsides: the music didn’t seem as powerful to me, the pacing was uneven (heavy doses of story followed by heavy doses of action), and there’s a kind of rave scene that just didn’t seem to fit the movie (in my opinion). These are relatively minor things in what I thought was a fantastic movie.

I’d say more, but I don’t want to ruin it for anyone.

Ditto on the rave scene. Thought it was out of place. But I know what you mean...I sat there with a dopey grin through much of the fight scenes.

<--- just think me watching a whole movie looking like my avatar

and there’s a kind of rave scene that just didn’t seem to fit the movie (in my opinion).

I thought the rave scene was great. I'm not clear on the symbolism, but they were trying to make some kind of a point by intercutting between the dancers, the dancers' muddy feet, and Neo/Trinity.

I think they may have been trying to show "what exactly are we hoping to save?" in addition to making some sort of symbolism point.

I think they may have been trying to show "what exactly are we hoping to save?"

Guess we'll find out in the DVD commentary.

Also will note that some of the FX shots were clearly computer generated, but I have to forgive the few cases in light of all the amazing shots they did pull off.

Maybe in 20 years when they're re-released they'll fix those scenes.

I think they may have been trying to show "what exactly are we hoping to save?" in addition to making some sort of symbolism point.

To me Zion seemed a tad cultish. If this was the desired effect, then I can see how the rave scene fits in. I suppose it (along with a few other minor details) will have to be revealed in the final movie.

Also, one more thing I think I should add. This movie didn’t seem “tacked on” to the original, which was a big fear I had going in. There are some who disagree, but to me this made the first movie (which I’d initially felt had come to a nice, comfortable conclusion) now feel more like just the beginning to a more complex story.

Cult? With a name like Zion?!?

Never!

(Note that this is not an anti-Jewish post; just that when the term Zion was coined (?) that Judaism was a cult.)

This is one thread I will definitely NOT read. I don't want to know anything about this movie until I go and see it myself.

I actually went to the first movie with too high expectations because everybody was raving about it and ended up dissapointed. But I went a second and even a third time, and it got better every time I saw it. Now it's still one of my favourite movies. (you know, the kind of movies you can't help but watching every time they broadcast it on tv, even though you've seen it ten times or more and even own the DVD! )

I'm not going to make the same mistake this time. I don't want to know ANYTHING. Not even if people like it or not.

I wanna be the judge !

I thought it was great. It was kind of slow getting started, had some cheesy dialog, and had great special effects. The only real problem I had with the special effects are that every film that has come out in the last three years has tried to use "matrix style" special effects, so when they show up in Reloaded, they're not as cool as they were the first time. That said, the freeway scene was great. The blatant cliffhanger is kind of annoying, but at least they're brining the next one out in six months, so it's not like the drawn out every year-or-three that LOTR and star wars have going.

Matthew

I thought the movie was great, too. The choreographing of the fight scenes was fantastic - BUT one gripe:

I thought the computer animation they used for the majority of Neo's fight scene with Agent Smith(s) was pretty cheapo looking. The textures and shading were extremely flat and the movement was very Toy Story like. If you watch it again, have a look at Neo's jacket or Smith's faces during that scene - they just weren't very well done. Of course, that's IMO.

Overall, though - I thought the movie was WELL worth seeing in the theaters. Definitely NOT a MIB2.

- trs

Is it as good as the hype or is it a MIB2?

No opinion yet, but was amused by this snippet from a radio (Bob Mondello?) review: "....Neo, worrying about his girlfriend who, in a world of ones and zeroes, is at *least* a three..."

One of my friends and I talked about this movie quite a bit this morning, and we both had the same impressions.

I thought they tried way to hard to be 'artistic' which is the feeling the rave scene gave me. There was way too much philosophising, and not nearly enough of 'breaking, shooting, and blowing **** up'. What made the original great, was that it had a great mixture of story and action. In this one, it felt that the philosophy they were presenting was overpowering and the action scenes were just kind of thrown in.

The flying was OK, but if Neo was the pimp daddy of the Matrix, you'd think he'd come up with something a little more original (and quicker) than Supermanning across the world.

The trenchcoat was cool in the first one, but for some reason it didn't work in this one. There was one freeze scene that it looked awesome, but other than that, I figured it'd be a hinderance in the fighting scenes.

The highway scene was great (until the Superman rescue). I just about died every time Trinity weaved (wove?) between the cars going the wrong way down the highway.

It was an OK movie, and I'll probably see it again. I might have just been expecting too much.

The highway scene was great (until the Superman rescue). I just about died every time Trinity weaved (wove?) between the cars going the wrong way down the highway.

My favorite part of that was how the "camera" passed right through the undercarriage of some of the traffic in those scenes. Most of the time it was almost so subtle that you wouldn't notice it was happening. There was one moment where they did it very blatantly. It was almost as if the effects guys were saying, "Ha! Fooled you. You thought those were actual cars the whole time, didn't you?"

When Tod and I realized this, we kind of looked at each other and went, "Whoa."

we kind of looked at each other and went, "Whoa."

ha Ha, yeah - my friends and I did the same thing when we saw that. That was a sweet trick.

- trs

I was skating at the skate park in Alameda when they were filming that highway scene... many days in fact. They built that entire highway structure on the Alameda Naval Air Base right next to the skate park. It was insane... you'd be carving around the bowl and all of the sudden you'd hear a rain of gunfire ringing out and a huge explosion. Crazyness. Esc (the effects studio that did most of the animation... formerly called Manex) is also right next to where they built that set in an old hanger. Really cool stuff to watch.

I'll save my fingers and not comment on the movie, other than it was "aight".

I saw the the movie on the preview date and I'll step out of character to say that the love scene/rave scene didn't seem too out of place; just a bit long to meet the need of Neo's prophetic vision. My complaint with the movie is that it explained far too much... Vampires, free will/predestination.... whatever. I'm not saying that these twists weren't cool and that the concept wasn't interesting. I'm saying the dialogue seemed to be written for a 12 year old... The oracle scene I found completely demeaning... I got the point and then they beat me with it.

Edit... Someone has told me that it just seems this way because I've dealt with the philosophical issues mentioned more than most, but I don't think thats it. By the way, I meant to say it is definitely not an MIB2.

The most interesting character in the movie I thought was The Merovingian. The eerie thing was that I just finished reading The Da Vinci Code just days before and was rather surprised to hear the name Merovingian mentioned in The Matrix. In The Da Vinci Code the author describes the Merovingian line as being a direct blood line from Jesus (mind you - the book is fiction). But this is a genuine theory of some historians. I'm not sure what the writers for The Matrix were trying to say with that name, but I thought it was rather interesting.

- trs

BTW - If anyone hasn't read The Da Vinci Code I HIGHLY recommend it. I'm not much of a reader - but I found it so fascinating that I couldn't put it down and finished it in 3 days!

The oracle scene I found completely demeaning... I got the point and then they beat me with it.

I agree with the feeling that I'd been beaten over the head with the point. Although I think the specific scene with the Oracle was the most pleasant and fun, and the least tiresome of the exposition bits. The most tiresome, I thought, was the scene at the end with the Architect.

But I agree that they tried too hard to make the philosophical points, and that they over-explained them.

Still loved the action scenes.

The most tiresome, I thought, was the scene at the end with the Architect.

This was definitely the point my head exploded; I must admit I didn't follow the conversation well enough to get it all. In fact of the three others I was with, only one of us really followed the whole thing. To be sure, I think that was the intended effect. Anyway, I ended up finding the transcript of the Architect scene on a website which helped me understand everything. This didn't make the movie tiresome for me, just that much more interesting. Of course they could mess it all up in the next one if it doesn't turn out cool.

Hey Jim welcome back - we missed you!

Bah Saw it opening day. it was ok.
Effects were no big deal, the story line was Better then the last 2 star wars movies (but then again so was attack of the killer tomatoes)

I didn't really mind the Rave Since (eat drink and be merry for tommorow we my all die)

I really was annoyed at the TBC Ending and this we knew you were comming and you made this choise before was very very annoying.

On a scale of 1 to 10 I would give it a 0000 1000

"a bit" doesn't begin to describe it. Almost everything about this movie felt like it dragged on for too long -- even the fight scenes started edging from "COOL" to tedium (and that's coming from a guy that studies martial arts). The rave was the worst -- that just felt like they stopped in the middle of the film and said "hey guys, why don't we shoot a music video!" The FX were really well done -- except for the fight scenes, which were still good, but lighting was problematic and distracting. The CG version of Neo's coat didn't appear to wrinkle realistically (it reminded me of Maya cloth). The new way of doing the time stop thing let them have a lot more complexity in the scenes, but the loss of realism from not using timed cameras didn't feel like it was worth the tradeoff. Overall, it was, as loren said, "aight" -- I'll be seeing the third, of course, but better editing could have brought it up to the level of the first one, IMHO.

The rave was the worst -- that just felt like they stopped in the middle of the film and said "hey guys, why don't we shoot a music video!"

Surely you've heard of the OMV, right?

OMV: Obligatory Music Video. Found in far too many modern films. Basically, the passage of time and certain pieces of character development (or the development of the love relationship between two characters if it's a love story) are fast-forwarded in some section of the middle of the film, while set to music. Often, the music is an uplifting pop song that's intended to sell copies of the film soundtrack album. There is no dialogue, in fact, most of the on screen action is almost pantomime in nature. In many cases the characters are seen doing fun, whimsical/playful things with each other in various settings. The OMV is a convenient way of quickly "telling" you something about the character development without actually "showing" you the real tedious day-to-day events and having to write all the dialogue that goes with it.

This is done in films frequently enough (and sometimes poorly enough) so that it's a) been parodied a number of times, and b) been adapted and redone particularly well a number of times.

I don't have an example of an OMV parody handy, perhaps someone can give one.

One of my favorite examples of a really good OMV is the Chicago Art Museum scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

One of the worst claw-your-own-eyes-out example of an OMV is the scene in Attack of the Clones where Anakin "Darth Petulent" Skywalker and Natalie "Just-out-of-beta" Portman have a little romp in the grassy fields of Naboo with some alien cows. George: You don't quite have the "hang" of the OMV. Avoid that form in the future, please. While you're at it, avoid trying to tell love stories altogether, please.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up: I think that the rave scene might have been the Wachowski's attempt at a new twist on the OMV. Seen in that light, I think it's a decent variation on the idea. It deliberately eschews some of the conventions of the OMV and sort of takes its own route. It doesn't achieve all of the goals that an OMV usually does, but maybe they were going for different goals (which I admit I still don't totally understand-- I think MWest had some interesting things to say about it, perhaps he can expand on the things he mentioned?).

Disclaimer: I should note that I’m assuming here everyone has seen the movie. If you haven’t you shouldn’t continue reading, as this movie is much better seen with as little knowledge as possible.

There are three things I didn’t like about the rave scene:
1. It didn’t feel very “Matrix”.
2. It was long.
3. I didn’t like the idea that all of the people who had “freed their minds” were acting almost like one amebic entity. It looked like the veneer of freedom (we move our body’s freely with the music that guides us), but an entire people acting with a singular intensity that is almost purposeless doesn’t seem to jive with the idea that these people are “free.” However, this might be the point, which I’ll get to.

I see the interspersed sex scene as not part of the rave scene (though clearly it is complementary) and I didn’t find it as difficult to swallow as the raving. I must admit that I don’t like sex scenes in any movie: most of the time they are unnecessary and it’s not something I like to watch. Still, clearly I don’t represent the majority of moviegoers so it’s something I’ve learned to live with. Having said that, this is a sex scene that carries far more weight than most.

In fact, it deals directly with the point I am guessing the whole Matrix trilogy is trying to make (cue “All You Need is Love”): ultimately it all comes down to love. It’s what saved Neo in the first movie and enabled him to become the “one”, and it’s also what makes Neo different from the other “saviors” (the “why” that drives his predestined choices). Thus this sex scene is ultimately important to show Neo and Trinity in love (and I do believe the intent was to show their acts were not just lust driven desire).

Now back to the rave scene: the more I think about it, the more I think that my #3 above may be the intended response. Are these people really free? Neo and Trinity certainly are, and while everyone else is engaged in a huge communal ravefest, they are focusing solely on one another and their love.

If this is all the intended symbolism (or close to it, anyway) of the rave vs. sex scene, then my #1 and #3 issues have been addressed and I think I can get over the fact that it’s overlong. So perhaps I was a bit hasty in slashing the rave scene as a detractor from the movie. Maybe. It sort of depends how on target I am about the symbolism, which will be validated or dismissed in the third movie.

Surely you've heard of the OMV, right?

Not 'til now. I typically associate the montage treatment with Baywatch. I haven't seen AotC -- my suspicions on seeing the re-release of the original trilogy were shown correct on the release of Phantom Menace, and I gave up on him.

Oh, and FWIW, I have it on good authority that there will be YASWSE (Yet Another Star Wars Special Edition) released -- there are *still* people working on those original three movies. *sigh*

I have it on good authority that there will be YASWSE (Yet Another Star Wars Special Edition) released

You know, I'd support this if he did it right. But he won't.

What I wish he would do is:

- Take the original prints.

- Clean up and restore them as pristine as possible.

- Correct and update any optical composites digitally, such as fixing the "emporer's slugs", cleaning up garbage mattes, etc., so that the films look like they were supposed to look like when originally projected in the theater instead of overexposed for the telecine transfer like the VHS copies.

- NOT add any new digital effects, characters, or objects.

- NOT add any new scenes (sorry, stepping on Jabba's tail was stupid).

- NOT change any existing scenes (Greedo shooting first and missing at point blank range, gimme a frickin break).

I figure the odds of this happening are about zilch.

Greedo shooting first and missing at point blank range, gimme a frickin break

Well, it may explain why stormtroopers are unable to hit Luke when he's standing still no more than 50 feet away; the quality control on blasters is pretty poor, and they simply don't shoot straight.

OTOH, I did like how much of the Ewok party was excised from RotJ, and the other-world party scenes were cool, even if it was a little off that the entire universe knew about it in a few hours.

I didn't mind most of the additions, buy you hit on the two I can remember really disliking: Greedo missing and Jabba's tail. I could probably even live with Jabba's tail, but the Greedo shooting first thing is inexcusable.

Yeah well, those laser blasters and tie fighters make noise in space too, so I guess we'll just suspend reality for a while.