#163227 - 28/05/2003 17:21
My new motherboard is dead?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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So I recently received my Abit NF7-S motherboard, Athlon XP 1700 CPU, and 512MB PC2700 RAM, along with a CPU fan/heatsink, etc. Began the process of installing last night, and before installing my peripherals, the PC would POST, CPU temps were nominal, etc. Then I put in a few hard drives, my video capture card, etc. and it wouldn't POST. No video, no BIOS beeps, but the LEDs on the motherboard are lit, all the fans go on, etc. So I figure I might have too many things connected, so I unplug everything, and I get the same results. Tried again tonight with a brand new power supply/case (not that those were at fault, but I needed a new one anyway) and still no luck.
So what the hell happened? I was taking care to avoid static electricity, I didn't cross any power connectors on the motherboard... Is there anything else I cna do to diagnose the problem? Is it possible it's the CPU or RAM that's failed somehow? How can I tell exactly what's gone wrong? I don't have any other compatible RAM or CPU I can swap in, unfortunately, or I'd try those.
This kinda sucks. I was really looking forward to getting this system together, and now it's clear something's broken. And chances are it's my fault, I just don't know what I did. I've built a dozen computers in my lifetime and never had these kind of problems... Just the way my luck's been recently.
So... ideas?
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#163228 - 28/05/2003 17:29
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Have you tried just the processor, no RAM, vid etc...? It should at least beep at you then. Do you have an old MOBO you can put your processor & RAM into to check those (sounds like you don't)?
Is there perhaps a loose case screw sitting where it shouldn't (give it the shake test)? Does the mobo/proc/RAM operate with the case mounting screws removed (perhaps a cold solder joing that flexed open)?
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#163229 - 28/05/2003 17:41
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Actually I've had boards that wouldn't POST without RAM they liked.
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#163230 - 28/05/2003 17:43
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Make sure the jumper for CMOS clear is set on "normal" (not clear).
Next thing I would do is check all the memory is seated properly. Then I would check that I didn't crack the Athlon's die when applying the heatsink.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#163231 - 28/05/2003 17:45
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Actually I've had boards that wouldn't POST without RAM they liked. Another possibility is that the memory is ECC. Most "consumer" chipsets coming out now are not supporting such memory.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#163232 - 28/05/2003 18:09
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: robricc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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It posted once for him, so I assume that's not the problem?
I agree about the re-seating tho.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#163233 - 28/05/2003 18:21
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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[->Zeke]
Have you tried just the processor, no RAM, vid etc...? It should at least beep at you then
Yeah, tried it, no beeps. (Speaker is connected properly.)
Do you have an old MOBO you can put your processor & RAM into to check those (sounds like you don't)? Nah, the only other motherboard I have is an Abit KT-7 which won't support the newer Athlon's. (Got a Duron 800 in it now.)
Is there perhaps a loose case screw sitting where it shouldn't (give it the shake test)? Nah, I transplanted everything to a new case and same results.
Does the mobo/proc/RAM operate with the case mounting screws removed (perhaps a cold solder joing that flexed open)? Didn't try that, but I will add it to my list of things I'll try before I send 'er back.
It posted once for him, so I assume that's not the problem? It posted about a dozen times, actually.
[->Rob]
Make sure the jumper for CMOS clear is set on "normal" (not clear). First or second thing I checked. I did try clear the CMOS just to see if it was the issue, but the jumper is back where it's supposed to be.
Then I would check that I didn't crack the Athlon's die when applying the heatsink. Yeah, that's next, though I've been reluctant to pull the heatsink off because I'll have to reapply my thermal paste (and remove the old paste) to do so. I have never had problems with this though, and the CPU/Mobo *did* work for the first half hour of my journey. I doubt a CPU with a cracked die would operate for that long.
Another possibility is that the memory is ECC. Most "consumer" chipsets coming out now are not supporting such memory. This is brand new Kingston PC2700 DDR. One thing I thought about was putting it into my "old" system (KT7-RAID.) Are newer PC2700 memories backwards-compatible to a system that normally runs on PC100 or PC133 RAM?
Sigh. I'm going to keep trying things here, I guess the next step is popping the CPU out and taking a look at it. I'm thinking it's the mobo, but I figured if I did something screwy to it, it'd at least beep at me or not power up at all...
Edited by yn0t_ (28/05/2003 18:22)
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#163234 - 28/05/2003 19:38
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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DDR RAM won't fit in a SDR socket. There are actually more pins on a DDR module.
When you disconnected everything from the motherboard, were they still connected to the PSU?
Also, might be a stupid question but the fuse hasn't gone in the plug has it? 
- Trevor
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#163235 - 28/05/2003 20:04
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tman]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Also, might be a stupid question but the fuse hasn't gone in the plug has it?
If it has then I want to know where I can get those magic LEDs and fans that work without consuming any electric power!
_________________________
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#163236 - 28/05/2003 20:07
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Doh! Didn't notice that bit in the original post!
More seriously though, is the 12V ATX auxillary plug necessary on your motherboard? I forgot to plug it in once and the board would act really strange and not power up properly but the fans would spin.
- Trevor
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#163237 - 28/05/2003 20:34
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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addict
Registered: 08/01/2002
Posts: 419
Loc: Minnesota
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Thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em:
It DOESN'T beep at you when you turn it on with a missing video card or RAM? Seems like it should. See what BIOS type is in it (Phoenix or Award probably) and their sites will list beep codes and their meanings. But you don't get anyhing, that makes no sense!
When you say it doesn't POST, does it at least beep once? As in, it works but it's just that the video has gone dead? Either way, might try a different video card, or a PCI one or something.
All BIOS options to "failsafe"?
Your chip may work int hat other board. It will physically fit - and even though it won't run full speed, the board that the Duron is in right now may (I'd say "should") at least take the info off the chip regarding the multiplier, etc. and make something of it. Perhaps run at 100 instead of 133, or something similar. That's been my experiences anyways - a new XP chip won't go full speed but will POST.
I've owned an Abit, and I returned it, it was so flaky when I was putting that particular machine together. Traded it for a Gigabyte which worked great, immediatley. Myself - I'd never buy another Abit. My point is - it really could be the board...
Edited by tracerbullet (28/05/2003 20:35)
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#163238 - 29/05/2003 00:58
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tracerbullet]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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[->Trevor]
More seriously though, is the 12V ATX auxillary plug necessary on your motherboard? I forgot to plug it in once and the board would act really strange and not power up properly but the fans would spin. You mean the little square one with the 4 pins? I don't think so. During the several times it did successfully POST and boot up, I didn't have it connected. In fact I didn't even know what it did until you just mentioned it and I looked it up. According to the manual, attaching it is "optional," which begs the question why anyone would attach something that's optional. I have never known of such a connector, and my old case doesn't even have a plug for it (though my new one does, strangely.)
I guess I'll try connecting it just for fun.
[->Greg]
When you say it doesn't POST, does it at least beep once? As in, it works but it's just that the video has gone dead? Either way, might try a different video card, or a PCI one or something. As I said, no video, no beeps. Video card is just fine, using it right now with the old motherboard and Duron processor.
It DOESN'T beep at you when you turn it on with a missing video card or RAM? Seems like it should. See what BIOS type is in it (Phoenix or Award probably) and their sites will list beep codes and their meanings. But you don't get anyhing, that makes no sense! Right. That's what I'm sayin'.
All BIOS options to "failsafe"? Well, they're set to factory defaults, since I cleared the CMOS, but I have no way to view them, since there's no video, and I can't get into the BIOS screen.
Your chip may work int hat other board. It will physically fit - and even though it won't run full speed, the board that the Duron is in right now may (I'd say "should") at least take the info off the chip regarding the multiplier, etc. and make something of it. Perhaps run at 100 instead of 133, or something similar. That's been my experiences anyways - a new XP chip won't go full speed but will POST. Hm, okay, I may try the AthlonXP in my current board, then, just to see what's going on. For some reason I thought the newer generation Athlons wouldn't run at all on an older board.
I've owned an Abit, and I returned it, it was so flaky when I was putting that particular machine together. Traded it for a Gigabyte which worked great, immediatley. Myself - I'd never buy another Abit. My point is - it really could be the board... Well, I've never had a problem with any of the ABit's I owned (TX-5, BP-6, KT7-RAID) so this is new to me. I guess I just want to know that it's the board before I ship it out for a return.
Anyway thanks for the help, guys, I'll probably try to swap chips/etc. tonight when I get home to see what's going on. Let's hope I don't damage my current setup in the process. I seem to have the "reverse Midas touch" lately.
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#163239 - 29/05/2003 01:27
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Try the board out of the case, I thought i'd fried my new board but found it was a grounding issue in the case.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#163240 - 29/05/2003 03:12
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2616
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
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I once had it happen to me that the reset switch on the case was stuck. So the motherboard worked fine OUT of the case, but every time I put it back into the case the thing wouldn't post. (because each time I would connect those tiny led/speaker/reset switch connectors again without knowing that that was the problem).
The moment I pulled those wires while the PC was on the thing posted no problem!
So I agree with Andy : assemble the PC OUTSIDE the case and connect nothing to the motherboard but keyboard, mouse, videocard and power.
If it doesn't work then you can pretty safely say that your motherboard is kaput.
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup
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#163241 - 29/05/2003 07:06
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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If the board was powered up without the 12V aux connector plugged in, then it is very possible that too much current got sucked through some poor unsuspecting component (or hopefully, a fuse) on the motherboard as a result of electricity travelling the "hard way" to the CPU or whatever.
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#163242 - 29/05/2003 07:12
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/09/2002
Posts: 285
Loc: DFW Area, Texas, US
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Hm, okay, I may try the AthlonXP in my current board, then, just to see what's going on. For some reason I thought the newer generation Athlons wouldn't run at all on an older board.
Will the Duron run on the new board? saves risking the Athlon on the old board.
_________________________
Mark.
[blue]MKI, MKII & MKIIa, all Blue, and all Mine![/blue]
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#163243 - 29/05/2003 07:29
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Chimaera]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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[->mlord]
If the board was powered up without the 12V aux connector plugged in, then it is very possible that too much current got sucked through some poor unsuspecting component (or hopefully, a fuse) on the motherboard as a result of electricity travelling the "hard way" to the CPU or whatever. Really? I've *never* had a power supply with a 12V Aux connector until now, and never even knew of its existence on any motherboards. I definitely missed a memo somewhere along the line.
Mind explaining what you mean by electricity travelling the "hard way" to the CPU? I thought that all the power that motherboards needed came from the standard rectangular connectors that come from the power supply... The little square 4-pin jobbie is completely new to me.
[->Chimaera]
Will the Duron run on the new board? saves risking the Athlon on the old board. I don't think so. I think the board supports only 166 FSB. I will check, though.
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#163244 - 29/05/2003 08:07
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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The little square 4-pin jobbie is completely new to me It's extremely common on Pentium 4 motherboards. Only ultra-modern Athlon boards are starting to come with it now.
Attached is the connector circled if anyone doesn't know what we're talking about.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#163245 - 29/05/2003 08:57
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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old hand
Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
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heres a thought, is your motherboard using an Nvidia chipset? If so... Did you over clock the front side bus speeds? The reason I ask is I recently bought the latest and greatest shuttle PC, all nvidia, I overclocked (accidentally) it began acting very strange, displaying odd characters and eventually no post.... ended up taking it back and getting charged 20 bucks for something I would later figure out via web search. Hold the insert key down while booting (I think)... it's the only thing that will get your motherboard back to the correct FSB setting. That or slap an older slower processor in it under 1200... Resetting the CMOS does nothing... Apparently this problem isn't just experienced with shuttles... but anything using the nvidia nforce chipsets... and possibly other nvidia chipsets
That is if this is your problem....
Just did a bit of checking.. you do have n-force on that board.. try holding the insert key down... then set your fsb at a lower setting... I ended up having to use a lower fsb then what the system was supposed to be able to handle to just provide stability... I was kind of pissed, but it's still pretty damn fast so I don't mind so much
_________________________
Brett
60Gb MK2a with Led's
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#163246 - 29/05/2003 09:34
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: lopan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I did not try *any* overclocking of any kind during this. My plan of attack was to get everything running at stock speeds first, THEN apply some O/C. So this isn't what's happening.
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#163247 - 29/05/2003 09:35
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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It's extremely common on Pentium 4 motherboards. Only ultra-modern Athlon boards are starting to come with it now. Yeah, it's just really fishy that the user manual would say that the connector is "optional." Like "Optional If You Want Your Motherboard To Work?" Or "We Just Wanted to Put it There so You'd Have a Place to Put the Funny-Looking 4-Pin Connector" kind of optional? Very odd. I will try attaching it tonight to see if it has any effect.
And, again, the thing was working properly without the auxilliary connector. Why the hell did they need to introduce yet another 12V power connector???
Edited by yn0t_ (29/05/2003 09:36)
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#163248 - 29/05/2003 09:47
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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And, again, the thing was working properly without the auxilliary connector. Why the hell did they need to introduce yet another 12V power connector???
Dunno.....maybe because modern P4s use more power than the old ATX connector can safely provide?
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#163249 - 29/05/2003 09:57
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Some of the people here (myself included) reckon that PC motherboards should supply 48v to all of their components, and let individual subsystems switch it down from there as necessary.
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-- roger
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#163250 - 29/05/2003 10:10
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Dunno.....maybe because modern P4s use more power than the old ATX connector can safely provide? Ah, so the auxiliary connector jobbie is dedicated to powering the CPU?
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#163251 - 29/05/2003 10:54
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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old hand
Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
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I wasn't really overclocking either when the first set of strange behavior happened, so I went into the bios and began playing with things, when I beefed the front side bus all the way up is when I got the same behavior you described. I actually originally had the fsb set for what the machine was supposed to be able to handle.... Your boards behavior just seems similar to what was happening with mine. Everything lights up but nothing happens... Heres an article explaining the issues, it does mention abit boards with the nforce chipset...
Edited by lopan (29/05/2003 12:02)
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Brett
60Gb MK2a with Led's
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#163252 - 29/05/2003 11:05
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I've *never* had a power supply with a 12V Aux connector until now, and never even knew of its existence on any motherboards. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/11706.html
Note the date on the article. I knew about these, and I haven't purchased a computer since then, much less built one. You need to find the person that's supposed to keep you up to date on such things and give them a good talking to.
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Bitt Faulk
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#163253 - 29/05/2003 11:41
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: tonyc]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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The new connector is for 5v line for the CPU's I believe.
I know one reason this connector was added: The power connector/ power supply cable on the older Athlon Dual motherboards based on the MP chipset would melt if you used CPU's that draw alot of power.
Also have you tried your old Duron CPU in this motherboard. If that works then you know it's the CPU it fails and you put it back in the old motherboard and it works. Then it's the new motherboard.
If the CPU is bad most Athlon motherboards will not beep the PC speaker. Yes this is LAME!
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Chad
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#163254 - 29/05/2003 11:42
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Roger]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Hmm...There is a good question.
48V would certainly have some advantages. But you might have some issues with regards to the -12V that is still usually provided for legacy RS232 use. At that point you have 60V (nominally) of potential difference between 2 points on the motherboard. Given that most PSUs today are switching supplies and that unloaded voltages usually exceed specified loaded voltages, it is easy to see that we would exceed the 60V 'Low Voltage' classification, hence requiring greater safety precautions. Given the fact that such a large percentage of PC users open their PCs and upgrade stuff themselves (many of whom are, quite frankly, clueless about electricity) I'm not sure that this is so desirable.
On the other hand, ATX is getting a bit long in the tooth. There's too much provision for legacy whilst too many upcoming technologies are battling for space. I think that it's nearly time for a new form factor to become prominent. But I don't think that any of the existing alternatives have got it right yet. Perhaps a new form factor specification would eliminate RS232 (in favor of USB dongles when necessary) and include 48V supplies.
But I'd quite happily see 24V used as a compromise.
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#163255 - 29/05/2003 11:45
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The new connector is for 5v line for the CPU's I believe. 12V for the CPU.
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Bitt Faulk
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#163256 - 29/05/2003 11:47
Re: My new motherboard is dead?
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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eliminate RS232 But that would preclude having a serial console, at least without additional hardware.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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