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#164608 - 08/06/2003 14:39 GPS and serial problems
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
I have a Delorme Earthmate GPS receiver and I'm having trouble getting it to work on my empeg with gpsapp. I've added the protocol=earthmate line under [gpsapp] to the config.ini file. It just sits at the "waiting for signal" screen forever. I bought a male to male straight thru cable from radio shack along with a null modem adapter (which i believe makes it crossover?) I am also unable to get my laptop connected by serial in car with hyperterminal (after forcing AC mode with hijack)

On AC power I can connect my laptop via hyperterminal without any problems. I tried getting the gps receiver working on AC power by forcing DC Mode with hijack but it doesn't work that way either. The gps receiver works fine with my laptop just doesn't seem to want to work with the empeg. Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong or have any suggestions?

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#164609 - 08/06/2003 17:45 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
1. Have you tried it both with and without that null modem adapter?

2. Are you plugging the earthmate directly into the player's serial port, or are you using a docking sled? Remember that those two methods are opposite in terms of crossover. depending on the earthmate's wiring, you'd need the straight-through cable for one of them, and the null adapter for the other.

3. If you're using a docking sled, have you ensured that you're using only pins 2, 3, and 5 on the serial connector, and that the other pins are disconnected?

4. How is the earthmate getting its power?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164610 - 08/06/2003 19:24 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
1. Have you tried it both with and without that null modem adapter?
Yes, I tried both combinations.
2. Are you plugging the earthmate directly into the player's serial port, or are you using a docking sled? Remember that those two methods are opposite in terms of crossover. depending on the earthmate's wiring, you'd need the straight-through cable for one of them, and the null adapter for the other.
I'm using the serial port on the docking sled.
3. If you're using a docking sled, have you ensured that you're using only pins 2, 3, and 5 on the serial connector, and that the other pins are disconnected?
No, all pins are connected, should I rip out the other pins from my serial cable?
4. How is the earthmate getting its power?
Currently on 4 AAA batteries, I'll get a more permanent source of power once everything is working.

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#164611 - 08/06/2003 21:49 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
No, all pins are connected,
That's likely to be the problem. Click here.

should I rip out the other pins from my serial cable?
You could do that, yes. But if you want your docking connector to remain "pristine" for a resale in the future, then you should make a custom cable and/or connector that uses only pins 2, 3, and 5. This will also allow you to experiment with the TX and RX lines so you can get the connection right without an extra null-modem adapter.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164612 - 08/06/2003 21:52 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
It just sits at the "waiting for signal" screen forever.
Hang on a second.

What is the EXACT TEXT of that screen?

If it's something like "Waiting for data from satellite receiver", then it's a problem with the serial cable like we've been working on. But if gets past that screen up to the "Searching for satellites" screen (without you pressing any buttons), then it's communicating with the earthmate just fine and the problem lies elsewhere. So which is it?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164613 - 08/06/2003 22:34 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Sorry, the text is indeed "Waiting for data from satellite receiver" I was just writing from memory before. I'll try modifying my serial cable (not on the docking sled, just an extension cable) by removing those pins and I'll see what happens. Thanks for the help and I'll let you know tommorow if it worked.

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#164614 - 09/06/2003 11:55 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ok, I removed all unnecessary pins from my serial cable. The player is now able to communicate with my laptop while in car (with force AC), so thats a step forward. But it still won't work with my earthmate gps receiver. It just sits there at that screen. I have tried it with and without the null modem adapter. Any other suggestions?

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#164615 - 09/06/2003 12:00 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Let's see your config.ini?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164616 - 09/06/2003 12:08 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
[Options]
Name=empegcar
[User Info]
Email=*
Phone=*
Name=Robert Medeksza
[Network]
Gateway=192.168.1.1
Netmask=255.255.255.0
IPAddress=192.168.1.99
DHCP=0
[sense]
muteaction=0
mute=-1
[power]
off_timeout=60000
[display]
visual_names=1
caching=0
[synchronise]
seq_num=92
[wendy]
flag_amount=0
[custom]
wendy=
[searches]
amount=0
[VisualFavourites_AM]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_AUX]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_DSP]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_FM]
count=0
[hush]
hushpercent=40
[volumecap]
enabled=1
[kenwood]
disabled=0
[ramp]
disabled=0
[menu]
quit=1
sort_playlist=1
[controls]
stalk_side=none
[tuner]
region=us
[aux]
source=
title=
artist=
[serial]
car_rate=115200
[gpsapp]
protocol=earthmate
visual=sats
metric=false
gpscoords=true
coord_format=DMS
track=true
scale=true
popups=true
time=true
coldstart=true
[hijack]
disable_bassboost_FM=1
volume_boost_FM=-2
volume_boost_AM=-6
volume_boost_AUX=4
;@EXEC_ONCE /drive0/var/ttsclock -t-5
;@DC ;@EXEC_ONCE /drive0/var/gpsapp/gpsapp
;@EXEC_ONCE /drive0/var/empacman
;@EXEC_ONCE /drive0/var/emptriv/emptriv


Edited by DomoKun (09/06/2003 12:33)

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#164617 - 09/06/2003 12:10 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
I was playing with the

[serial]
car_rate=115200

setting today. I didn't have it at all before, I tried setting it to 9600, and 115200 as it is now. No combination of that did anything.

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#164618 - 09/06/2003 12:20 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well, it's supposed to be 4800 in the car (which is the default), and most GPS units work at 4800. Perhaps try that.

Another thing to try is to remove everything under [GPSapp] in config.ini and see if it works at the default settings.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164619 - 09/06/2003 12:22 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Oh, and if the time hasn't expired, you might want to edit your post and remove the personal information contained in the config.ini.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164620 - 09/06/2003 12:45 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Tried it, still nothing. I believe Earthmate runs at 9600 as I connected to it with my laptop in hyperterminal at 9600-8-n-1 and it kept repeating the text "EARTHA" over and over.

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#164621 - 09/06/2003 13:14 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
oliver
addict

Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
This may be of some help to you. It wasn't to me, but i think my earthmate is busted
_________________________
Oliver mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126

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#164622 - 09/06/2003 13:25 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Try this:

- Set car_rate to 9600
- remove all lines under [GPSapp] except protocol=earthmate
- Add a line under [GPSapp] to point to your routes directory such as routedir=/programs0/routes and make sure that directory exists.

Then try deliberately swapping pins 2 and 3 on the serial connector to see if you get any luck that way. (I never trust 3rd party adapters )
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164623 - 09/06/2003 13:30 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Oh... DUH... I forgot the most important thing!!!!

Are you running the latest hijack? If you are, there's a setting you need to select in its main menu. The setting is only visible when the player is in car mode. He added it in a recent version. I forget its exact name, but it controls whether or not to launch the player app with -s- so that the player doesn't grab the serial port.

If that's what it turns out to be, I will point Mark to this thread as proof that he should have had that option default to the no-serial behavior.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164624 - 09/06/2003 13:37 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'll try all your suggestions in a little bit and then get back to you.

The page Oliver links to mentions that the earthmate uses pins 4 and 9 for something, which I have removed. What does "PC DTR" (pin 4) or "RING" (pin 9) mean and are they needed for this to work?

I am currently running hijack 334, which looking through its history didn't change the serial port options yet. I'll upgrade to the latest version and set the menu entry just in case though.

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#164625 - 09/06/2003 13:47 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
What does "PC DTR" (pin 4) or "RING" (pin 9) mean and are they needed for this to work?
RS232 Pin Assignments (DB9 PC signal set)

Pin 1 Received Line Signal Detector (Data Carrier Detect)
Pin 2 Received Data
Pin 3 Transmit Data
Pin 4 Data Terminal Ready
Pin 5 Signal Ground
Pin 6 Data Set Ready
Pin 7 Request To Send
Pin 8 Clear To Send
Pin 9 Ring Indicator

Of these, the empeg only makes proper use of 2, 3, and 5. Connecting the others will confuse whatever device you're connected to.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164626 - 10/06/2003 11:59 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
I tried everything you suggested and it didn't work. However, I came up with a test of my own and I know why it doesn't work. I created a serial cable of my own that only used pins 2, 3, and 5 and used that cable to connect my laptop to the Earthmate GPS receiver. It did not work. But when I added pins 4 and 9 to the serial cable, the GPS worked with my laptop.

But since the empeg uses those pins for something else, how can I rig something up to send whatever signal the gps needs on those pins?

I am currently running the GPS receiver off of batteries. The page oliver linked to mentions that these pins can somehow be used to power the unit instead of the batteries. Maybe if I power these pins instead of using the battery it will work the empeg? But I am not sure of how to hook it up that way. I assume it wants 6 volts since it uses 4 AAA batteries. But what pin do I connect the negative lead to and what pin the positive? I have a universal car power adapter that is no longer in use, and it can make a 6 volt charge. Does the ignition sense wire that is connected to the empeg carry 12 volts? Can I splice into that with the car adapter so that it only powers the adapter when the car is on?

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#164627 - 10/06/2003 12:08 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
9 is effectively unused these days (ring indicator), so it must be pin 4 (DTR) that did it, which could make sense. Of course, it might just be the computer that needed pin 4 and not the GPS. Regardless, try connecting pins 1 and 4 on the GPS together and see if that works.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#164628 - 10/06/2003 12:22 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: wfaulk]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
It is pin 4. Disconnecting pin 9 made no difference, but after disconnecting pin 4 it did not work. Pin 1 made no difference. I am also pretty sure that is not the laptop that needs pin 4 as I can connect my laptop to the empeg using just pins 2, 3, and 5 with no problems.

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#164629 - 10/06/2003 12:27 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: wfaulk]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
From http://www.qsl.net/ka9mva/earthmate.htm
When DTR is not asserted, RING goes to 6V. When the unit is powered up (DTR high), RING goes to near 0. This is a powerup indicator.
[Lumpy from digitalcartography.com told me you can power the Earthmate from pin9. Yahoo!]

The GPS TX line is true RS232C, in the sense that it swings between -5V and 5V.

The Earthmate is powered by four AAA batteries, nominally 6VDC. My unit only pulls 85 mA at 6.0VDC. This is extremely low, and can be supplied from a 78L06 regulator easily.

When my unit is powered down (DTR=0), it pulls around 125 uA (yes, that's microamperes).

I think this means that I can send 6 volts to pin 9 (negative I assume) instead of using the battery? But which pin to I connect the positive wire to, pin 4?

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#164630 - 10/06/2003 13:02 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Pin 1 made no difference.
You may not have understood what he was saying. He wasn't saying "hook up pin 1, and also hook up pin 4", he was saying "hook pins 1 and 4 together to each other". He said this in hopes of faking out the DTR line (pulling it high, I think). Try that.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164631 - 10/06/2003 13:13 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Oh I see, I misunderstood. However, I tried that right now and it didn't work. According to that page the GPS only uses pins 2,3,4,5, and 9 so pin 1 is probably not sending anything.

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#164632 - 10/06/2003 13:25 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Nuts.

Okay, quick RS232 lesson. Data Terminal Ready is a signal that the terminal (in this case, the computer or the empeg) sends to the Set (in this case, the GPS) that it's ready to receive data. Your GPS isn't seeing it turned on, so it's not sending anything. Surprising, really, that it would do that. Most such things send regardless.

Tying it to Carrier Detect is a common cheat, as it's basically always on. Except in your case. And you have no other signals always on. You'll probably have to cheat it in there somehow.

When you attach it to your computer, you use a straight-through, right? If so, you should be able to use the same cable with the empeg. (Someone correct me if I'm thinking backwards, but since we use a null-modem to connect the computer and the empeg, then the empeg is a Terminal just like the computer, right?) And the empeg ought to set DTR.

Weird. I'm confused.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#164633 - 10/06/2003 14:04 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: wfaulk]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Yes, it is straight-thru. So the empeg doesn't have anything like DTR on any of its pins?

I'm guessing that the reason it does this is because it is battery powered and it uses this DTR thing as an on/off switch to conserve battery when not in use.

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#164634 - 10/06/2003 14:07 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
So the empeg doesn't have anything like DTR on any of its pins?
It ought to, but I don't know for sure. Can someone help out here? I don't have a breakout box handy.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#164635 - 10/06/2003 14:55 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Silly question, DomoKum... With all the things we've been trying (such as tying DTR to pin 1), in each instance, did you try it with pins 2/3 both straight and swapped? Or did you assume that you had the correct crossover for each experiment, and tried it only with the pins straight?

Everything you've tried, should have been tried twice, once with each of the two possible configurations of pins 2 and 3.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#164636 - 10/06/2003 15:29 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: tfabris]
DomoKun
journeyman

Registered: 14/03/2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, these last few DTR experiments I've been doing with my laptop and the GPS, not with the empeg. I have only been doing straight through since I know the GPS works with the laptop with pins 2,3,4, and 5 but does not work with the laptop when 4 is detached. I just assume that if I can get the laptop working with the GPS with only pins 2,3,5 only then can I try it with the empeg.

But just in case, I just tried the pin 1 and 4 experiment with the empeg with both crossover and straight-thru with no luck.

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#164637 - 10/06/2003 17:03 Re: GPS and serial problems [Re: DomoKun]
oliver
addict

Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
This is the exact reason why i gave up on my earthmate. Plus the guy that gave it to me had 4 batteries that had leaked acid on the board. I cleaned up the board as good as i could, but i think the unit is completely dead. I tried it with my computer once, but i didn't have any software, so i couldn't really test it. Plus by that time, i had already sourced another gps unit that worked perfectly. I still have the earthmate, its in my glovebox i think. If you can get to the bottom of these issues, I would love to give my earthmate another try, or if maybe someone has a link to some free gps software I could test it with on my pc, that would also get great
_________________________
Oliver mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126

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