WOW. Yeah, for that Lisa I was also thinking "Maxim, here I come." Just WOW.

Nice.. If that happens, she'll be well on her way to big money and fame, and we can all keep a look out for when she shows up in "Cum-Drenched College Cuties #167." Much to the chagrin of her former students, who will then have to shoplift Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues instead of clinging to their fading memories of biology class.

I’m just stating how I see sex and nudity from my belief system. If you think that lust is natural and good (or at least not bad), then clearly my above arguments carry no weight.

Jeff, sometimes you can be frustrating.

It would be so much easier to rant against you as a religious fanatic if you didn't express your opinions in such a well-crafted and thoughtful manner.

While you and I do not see eye to eye on most things, rest assured that I (and I suspect the great majority of people on this bbs) certainly do appreciate and enjoy reading your alternative viewpoints.

Keep them coming.

tanstaafl.

Yeah. I pick Tennessee because it seems they're always one of the exceptions.

It's like Canada and Quebec!

Thanks for the kind words. I realize that there’s a fine line between stating one’s opinion and just being a general pain. I try not to be the latter, but I think it’s important to do the former. I also appreciate hearing alternative viewpoints, as ideas unchallenged always have very weak foundations. I try to keep my super-religious posts to a minimum, but every once in a while I just feel compelled to speak!

My thoughts exactly.

(Reply to Jeff coming this evening...)

(Reply to Jeff coming this evening...)

Ho boy, opened a can of worms now haven't I? FWIW I'm going to be indisposed for the next few days so if I don't keep the dialog going you'll know why.

A very old and battered can of tired worms, but as Doug said, it's always pleasure to have discussion with you

Maybe as Bonzi says this is an old can of worms, but I find reading this thread interesting....

yn0t_: So what is the attraction to these shows? What is it that they're doing that's so funny? And does anyone else think it's just gotten old, and is bordering on irresponsible and just plain wrong? The language they're using, while devoid of any of Carlin's seven words, is awful, and the subject matter is definitely not anything I'd want my kids listening to. And all this happens in a time slot that kids are very easily able to tune into.

I think that my credentials as a sexist pig are pretty impeccable, and I consider myself a very zealous free speech advocate, but I share your bewildered disgust. Part of my great dismay with the recent Republican FCC consolidation ruling is that I feel that conglomerate media are getting further and further away from any of the basic “public service” notions that used to be paid at least lip service by the FCC/government. Instead , we get lowest-common-denominator puerile shock talk targeting 18-35 year-old male consumers. Period. I may be wrong on the exact demographic or I may be oversimplifying, but I think you get my drift. I find a lot of the “wink, wink” adolescent sexual innuendo in a lot of prime-time TV pretty lame as well.

gsm01320: I just graduated from high school, and work at a local Coffee shop.. lets just say I totally feel that some of these talk shows are responsible for the reason I have to kick kids off of my stores premises on a daily basis... they all listen to the radio at all times of the day, they think that the stuff they listen to is humerous and act it in public.. the worst part is they are all younger then me and think they are more mature because they act and dress the way they do... honestly its humiliating being assosiated with them... howard stern has always been cool... but the so called "tame" stations advertize rude and crude behavior on a less noticable wave.

This is really interesting. Makes me feel a little less like an old fart!

When I encounter this media “hypersex” and, worse, the flat-out misogyny of a lot of music, I tend to consider it in terms of 3 people: my delightful 96 year-old aunt, my delightful 26 year-old niece, and my friend's delightful 7 year-old son. Yeah, I think about how my aunt feels when she has to deal with that kind of behavior, what my niece's life will be like in a world where popular culture runs shows like “Are you Hot?” (sp?), and I really have to think whether my friend's son will grow up thinking that “bitch” and “Ho” are just normal parts of everybody's conversation and that sorry things like “Girls Gone Wild” are rilly, rilly cool. Part of my unease with performers like Eminem who explain that “people just don't get the joke” is that 7 and 10 and 12 year-old boys generally don't get the joke.

Another friend of mine has a very bright 10 year-old daughter, but “Mom” is very distressed at the complete absorption of her daughter's peers with Britney-esque dress and sexual “tease” behavior. These poor kids seem like they have really absorbed the “midriff” culture message that being sexy is what it is all about --- more like *all* that it's about. Mom has to spend a lot of time trying to keep her daughter's head screwed on straight.

I'm not big on sexual repression and actually feel that countries that embrace and expose sexuality more (say French TV commercials with naked women) have less to worry about than do we here in the U.S. I just find the tease/boob-job/male fantasy culture that seems to be getting worse is not good for 1/2 of the population. Maybe these teachers would condemn me for saying so, but I feel sorry for them. I don't think their mothers succeeded in keeping their heads screwed on correctly.

wfaulk: Tennessee is not particularly different than the rest of the deep South, other than regular interstate differences.


Maybe not very different, but I think Tennessee has gotten specific attention around issues like pronography and evolution/creationism that have led to some of the barbs.

FerretBoy: Of course the understanding here is that we're coming from two different perspectives, and I'm going to try and not get too deep into it (though I always fail at that don't I?). The following of course flows out of a religious conviction I fully expect most people don’t share.

I think that the root problem is lust, or the aforementioned “objectification of a person”. This doesn’t simply mean “promoting a person’s gifts” such as a pretty face or a good voice. When using pornography men (or women) experience the trappings of intimacy without the substance of it. This is not how sexual attraction was meant to be exhibited. Sex is a wonderful, intimate experience between a husband and a wife where two people physically express their relationship to one another. When sex becomes a one-sided experience, however, it is turned from a positive experience into a negative one.

How all this relates to nudity? [...........]

I could say more, but that’s about the core of my feelings on the subject. I’m already sounding pretty judgmental, but really I’m just stating how I see sex and nudity from my belief system. If you think that lust is natural and good (or at least not bad), then clearly my above arguments carry no weight. I, of course, do think that lust is not a good thing and thus feel that promoting it in any way is not a good thing.

As always, you score great marks for laying out your position thoughtfully. As you might expect, I don't agree with some of your premises, but I am of two minds on some of what you say. I tend to see “lust” as a fact of life that goes back as far as human history and one that has, for better or worse, left its mark on many of the pivotal events and stories we find familiar (Helen of Troy as example). It is my imperfectly-supported feeling that many of the attempts to suppress sexuality in societies have been led by the people we should be most worried about – repressed, righteous clerics who later on turn out to be pedophiles, for example.

I agree in part that one-sided relationships can lend themselves to “objectification”, but again I feel that some of this is a fact of life. Not everybody finds that perfect partner, some lose theirs. The world stubbornly refuses to conform to strict 1 Man + 1 Woman formally married partnerships as the basis for sexual feeling. My condom jokes notwithstanding, I don't think that I pose any particular risk to the women of Amersfoort, but I do hope to lust after them. I'd worry if I didn't.

I don't have any direct experience with official nudism, but I have driven around some of the spots in France with big “Naturisme” beaches (carefully trying to take the right turns!) and it is my sense that folks who embrace this whole nudism thing spend a lot less time worrying about lust than the average American guy. I, personally, probably wouldn't manage to blend in very well on one of these beaches, but maybe if I were brought up that way....?

Soooo, I guess I am doomed to remain a sexist pig and I think that lust is just fine and a fact of life, but I guess my concern is that we, in our media and pop culture institutions and our “Britney-type” midriff imagery, are institutionalizing an unhealthy one-sided sexual culture to the detriment of all players.

Oh, and that Lisa is extremely hot.

And, as forecasted, she won. Ho-hum. Two of my three personal picks tied for 6th. I stand by my statements, however, and submit this as further proof that the concepts of democracy and majority rule still need some tweaking. Especially when a plaid miniskirt, knee-high stockings, and a ridiculously see-through bra are enough to "stuff" the ballot boxes with votes for a clearly less-hot teacher. If any of the other truly hot teachers had shown their nipples like Lisa did, I think they would have had it locked up.

Not that I'm complaining, nor would I kick Lisa out of bed. Well, maybe in the morning...

And, as forecasted, she won.

YAY!!

YAY!!

Bah, what do you know, you're a chick.

But she's a chick with an Empeg!

or...

Hey, if her boyfriend's obsession with cars has rubbed off on her, maybe some of her boyfriend's other obsessions have, as well!
Edit: Well hey, this *is* in a Howard Stern thread!

Yeah, let's go alienating the women. Lord know there are so many here that we can afford to lose a few.

Elle, rest assured that these guys are just pulling your chain.

I for one am so sick to death about hearing about "HOT" women. The rest of us who are not so hot should just go around wearing sacks for clothes and bags over our heads or shoot ourselves and be done with it. We're not worth bothering with.

Aw, crickey, Bitt, given that Elle was just cheering for the winner of a Hottest Teacher contest, I'm sure she's capable of recognizing some good natured ribbing.

yn0t_: Bah, what do you know, you're a chick.

and your point is........???......

But she's a chick with an Empeg!

or...

Hey, if her boyfriend's obsession with cars has rubbed off on her, maybe some of her boyfriend's other
obsessions have, as well!
Edit: Well hey, this *is* in a Howard Stern thread!

I never needed to have his obsessions rub off onto me.... I've always been bi...(hey... a lot of females ..AND MALES are... its natural) best of both worlds....
however...however.. I mearly was comenting that yes... she is hot.. in those pictures she had that whole thing going for her

Elle, rest assured that these guys are just pulling your chain.

don't worry about me... I love how close minded a lot of guys are... lol... even after they say how OPEN minded they are...hhaha..

And FWIW, one needn't be bi to be able to appreciate physical beauty in either gender.

I for one am so sick to death about hearing about "HOT" women. The rest of us who are not so hot
should just go around wearing sacks for clothes and bags over our heads or shoot ourselves and be
done with it. We're not worth bothering with.

Laura

Laura , Laura, Laura... it will never ever end... guys always will be talking about hot girls this.. hot girls that... in fact... even a lot of girls will say.. "she's hot".... its really all just relative.... girls say the same things about guys... "ooooo did you say that waiter? lets give him a large tip... he's soooo hot ::giggle giggle::" and "damn he's so fine"
and you don't even have to be "hot" to hear it .... whatever hot really is....
lets face it... I'm sure she only looked that good for the photo.... and even if not.... who cares? just say this to yourself..
" I like myself.. I like myself...."
heaven know I don't think I'm even close to being "hot" but my boyffriend says I am... a lot of guys say things flattering.... so... i guess to some... I am... its all relative girl.... deal with male hormones...lol...

I'm sure she's capable of recognizing some good natured ribbing.

you have no idea..lol
thanx

And FWIW, one needn't be bi to be able to appreciate physical beauty in either gender.

that is a beautiful point to add here. Beauty is.... well.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder... name that quote...
(don't know how that fit exactly... but it got added anyways..)