Hi everyone,

I know there have been several other Portable PC type threads, but I was hoping for some more specific advice from the gang here.

I have had a Palm Pilot since the original Palm Professional. I now have a Palm V. I've replaced it twice from drops, etc, using the $100 Palm remanufactured replacement program. (Nice program, by the way, but I don't know if it applies to the newer models or if it is still in force).

The battery life on my existing Palm V has degraded to the point where I want to replace it. It used to be great, but now it runs out so quickly (requiring a complete reload after charging) that it is not reliable for week-long business trips.

I'm looking for thoughts from you all about the best replacement organizer for me.

Things I *really* like about the Palm:

1. It is fast. Push the button and you've got your address book. Scheduling is equally fast.
2. The desktop software is FAST. Trying to use Outlook or something like that for a contact manager and scheduler is just silly to me. The Palm Desktop is adequate, small, and very fast. The latest version has a bug in the drag & drop rescheduling that annoys me. I *really* like drag & drop rescheduling and drag to change duration.
3. It (used to have) has good battery life.
4. It runs Palantir.
5. It is small and thin.
6. The single-button hotsync is great, and, more importantly, I can keep desktop software on two computers synced with the Palm. I run the desktop on my work PC and home PC and just sync before I leave and all 3 devices are easily synchronized.

I use the thing primarily for my mobile contact manager and schedule. I don't want to boot up a PC to see if I'm available for a meeting -- especially when I'm away from the office. I just push a button on the Palm.

I have a couple ebooks on the thing.

I use Palantir.

I do *not* need a PDA that can play movies, mp3s, etc, etc. I *would* like more than 2MB of memory, mostly for my Palantir database file. I don't care about color on an organizer, but I don't object to it.

Should I consider other devices besides the new Palms? If so, which? Does anyone have any experience with the Tungsten series Palms?

One thing that seems somewhat interesting to me is the 802.11 in the Tungestens. Free wireless access is becoming the standard at coffee shops. Has anyone used it to check web mail clients? Is it usable? Even the biggest Tungsten only has a 320x480 screen, though it can be used to display in landscape mode, too. Is that "usable"? I can chickenscratch stuff in Graffiti, but its nothing like typing. I tried syncing my emails with the Palm V and gave up because it was so laborious. Checking a webmail site in a coffeeshop might be different... How is the web browser?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts. I respect the opinions of this community tremendously.

Jim

One thing that seems somewhat interesting to me is the 802.11 in the Tungestens

I thought the Tungstens only had bluetooth and you needed a separate 802.11 card. I could be wrong and I'm getting the products mixed up, so please feel free to disregard.

Well, they have the Tungsten C, which has integrated 802.11b instead of bluetooth. I don't have any bluetooth devices, so I don't really care about it (just haven't gotten into that). It has a little thumb keyboard like a blackberry that makes me very skeptical. I guess you can still use Graffiti, too.

i have a tungsten T and it is great has IR as well for empeg the new T2s have a different version of graffiti so maybe look for a T and the others have nasty keyboards.

It comes with a nice little cover as well for the screen that just clips over the front.

I have the Tungsten C. I was also skeptical about the thumboard at first, but I have gotten used to it and now I love it. I went from having a Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Tungsten C, and there are some likes and dislikes I have about it (especially compared to my old Vx). It's hard to choose Palm devices at this time because IMHO there is no "perfect" Palm device, but the T|C comes close.

What I like about the Tungsten C

The thumboard is nice. I was really good at Grafitti and used it a lot, enough so it affected my normal handwriting. I wasn't sure if I would like the thumboard, but I really like it now. I could go back to the silkscreen though, so it really isn't a deciding factor for me. One thing I like about the thumboard is that you can use it one-handed while driving to scroll to an artist's name in Palantir. You can use the write on screen grafitti, which I also like since it will "trail" your strokes to give you reference. I'm not a big fan of Grafitti 2, but you can customize the way some of the letters are drawn.

Absolutely gorgeous color screen. I was not a color screen convert until I saw this screen. If you look at a display in the store, you will think it's a mock-up screen sticker covering the real screen. I was pleasantly surprised when it turned out to be the real screen.

It is FAST! I don't think I could go back to a PDA with a Dragonball processor after having used the Tungsten C. There is a significant speed advantage when scrolling lists and clicking on icons or items. My Vx seemed fast, but the T|C is instant.

The Photos application is great, I don't have to carry any photos in my wallet now! They look great on the screen, too. (320x320)

64M of memory helps, but I don't even come close to the memory limit. This is a major advantage of Palm's over the PocketPC.

The wireless access is really cool. Browse any website and check your e-mail wherever you have 802.11 coverage. I've found it most useful for e-mail, and some websites, but sites specially designed for PDA's work best (see below for limitations). On the command bar they've added an icon telling you your signal strength, tapping it takes you to the wifi config screen.

The 5-way navigator is nice, especially if applications support it. All the built-in apps support the navigator, and I wrote in support for it in Palantir. Along with the default scroll up and down actions, you can press back to go back a screen (just like the back button) and the middle button will take you to the Playlist screen. In the Playlist screen, you can press the middle button again to beam the playlist.

What I do not like about the Tungsten C

It's a brick compared to a Vx. The additional features come at a price, which is reduced battery time and weight. The battery life isn't too bad, I can go a week without having to recharge, using wireless occasionally. It's pocketable with the cover they give you with it , but I bought the Palm slip belt case which I really like. It is just a pouch for the Tungsten that you slide it out of, it doesn't attach to the unit at all which I like. The construction of the belt case is very good, it has velvet on the inside to protect your PDA, too. I found that the belt case would also fit a V series nicely, although not as snug as the Tungsten C/W.

They build in most of the apps into the ROM. I wish they could be removed or upgraded - I don't use the built-in calculator in favor of a better 3rd party calc, and I wish I could replace it. As it is the built in calc just takes up space. I know that you can get 3rd party apps to modify the ROM, but it should be that way from the factory.

The headphone jack is mono. This is probably so you can add on VoIP later (this is what I've heard) and record memos using a headset. I haven't tried it with a headset, but shouldn't there be some way to do that with a stereo jack?

The Palm SD bluetooth card doesn't work in the Tungsten C. I think they are going to fix this, it's an issue with the drivers for Palm OS 5.x, so when they do you will be able to have both bluetooth and wifi.

The case seems a little weak. I can twist it a bit, and mine doesn't sit 100% flat on a flat desk (but I can press it down). I realize they didn't use metal to cut down on weight, but twisting it and hearing it creak doesn't inspire confidence. Try one out in the store to see for yourself, it doesn't bug me too much, but it is still a bit annoying.

Okay, now for wireless glitches (mostly software):

If you switch around applications a lot, it will keep trying to re-connect to the network and get an IP address. I think this is due to some apps closing netlib and then trying to re-open it, I'm not sure.

The wireless range isn't wonderful. It's not bad considering it's a handheld, but with my access point I have to be pretty much within 75-100 feet, and it doesn't work great between floors (my Linksys wireless router is in the basement). I've been to a few coffeeshops and a mall that had wireless access and it worked great, maybe it's just my setup at home that is lacking.

I need spam filtering in Versamail! Otherwise, this mail app is really good for the Palm. You can create filters for the mail, but only on To, From, Subject, CC, Date, Size. If they could filter on other header fields, I could use SpamAssasin on the server to score it, then filter based upon score.

The web browser is adequate. It works best on pages designed for small screens, but will do ok for other sites. Really browsing on a PDA is not ideal anyway, as you can imagine with the screen real estate. My biggest problem with the browser is that it does not support pop-ups, which is ok except for some sites that use javascript links as actual links, and you just cannot browse those sites. It is really poor web design, but about 5-10% of sites do it. This makes the browser unusable for those sites. For some reason I can use the browser to login to riocar.org just fine, but I cannot log into this BBS with my Palm. Must have something to do with cookies.

Overall

Overall, I give it 8 out of 10 Empeg Geek Points. While the Tungsten C is definatly the most powerful Palm to date, the few glitches in the built-in web browser and wireless access make me wish for upgrades. You may want to check out the newer Tungstens, like the E and T3. The E looks like a great value-priced PDA. The reviews I like are at http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/, they always do a very good job at picking apart every PDA and tech toy. Their comparison pictures are pretty good, too.

I've also had one since the Palm Pro, way back when and my current device is a Palm Vx. I even used the Omnisky wireless modem for about three years. I'm waiting for some feedback on the Treo 600, at this point. A couple of people at my office have the Kyocera Smartphone 7135, which is a little too big.

--Nathan

You can create filters for the mail, but only on To, From, Subject, CC, Date, Size. If they could filter on other header fields, I could use SpamAssasin on the server to score it, then filter based upon score.

Is there an option to have SpamAssasin change the subject to start with "Spam:" or something you can sort on? I of use popfile with eudora, so I just use a X-Spam header line any sane person would...

Matthew

Mark,

Thanks for the great review. I really appreciate the time you put into it. I have the same gripe about software in ROM (Palm has always done it like this).

I'm encouraged that you like the keyboard. The point you make about one-handed operation in the car is excellent. I assume that it works the same for address book, etc.

Thanks again. If anyone else has comments or can suggest some other alternatives to the T|C, please post!

Jim

Yes, I rewrite subjects for known spam, but my filter level is set to be conservative because of my parents and others who share my domain. The forwards they usually get are tagged as spam otherwise.

Ah, that I can understand. Though you might as well start running your own spam filter after that step. I don't have any need to share mine, so it's learned my taste in spam quite well.

Actually, there's an interesting question. WIth bayesian filtering, are you better off with a lot of people reporting spam so it has more positives, or just yourself reporting spam so it's tailored just to your tastes? I'm sure someone's thought about this already.

Matthew

Though you might as well start running your own spam filter after that step.

Yup! This is what I do on my desktop with Mozilla Mail. I could rely on filters to do the same thing on the Palm, especially if I were able to check the spam level in the headers (SpamAssasin inserts X-headers with a numeric level).

Hey, no problem. I like good information from others before I go out and buy something, and the internet is the best place for it.

You will have to strike some of what I said about the web browser. I just downloaded Web Pro 3.0 from another message board (it ships with the Tungsten T3, someone had extracted the .prc from their T3 and put it up on a website) and it is a great improvement over the Tungsten C's built-in browser. I now have it as my default browser, and it supports javascript and I can log into the BBS fine (but not post).

I now have it as my default browser, and it supports javascript and I can log into the BBS fine (but not post).

Would you mind testing your ability to post on the test board (http://empeg.comms.net.riocar.org/). I saw something in the 6.0 config that I think should allow you and others on portable devices to post now.

Yup, it works (look in Off-Topic). Posting and replying work fine. The error I was getting on this BBS was due to my IP not having permissions to post (or something like that, let me know if you want the whole error).

It's possible to replace the new grafitti 2 on the newer models with the old grafitti 1, through judicious poking of the ROM with a suitably sharp stick.

Regards

Mark

There are third party products that will do this, but you cannot with a stock Palm device.

Browsing on Palminfocenter, I found this. You'd need another PDA or the .prc files mentioned in the article to do this.

Thanks again for the thoughts on the Tungsten C. I found one, allegedly "New in Box" on ebay for $320. I decided to go for it.

Any tips on must-have software or hints on the newest models are appreciated, here or via PM. In particular, I would love to have a PalmOS SSH client so I can manage my OpenBSD server from any hotspot.

Thanks again,
Jim

Check out this thread where I suggest some programs, as well as link to another thread where we discussed Palm apps. After posting in that thread, I've also installed SameGame, PalmVNC, you should have gotten Documents To Go, a theme editor called Colorize and the Web Pro 3.0 browser (found in this thread on cliesource.com).