I finally got my "invitation to order", a year after I registered. I think Empeg guys have a great product, but it's too expensive and too late to the market. There's a number of alternatives on the market today that looks much more attractive. For example, Aiwa CDC-MP3 in-dash player that plays CD-R disks with MP3s (in addtion to regular CDs and AM/FM) for less than $300 bucks!!! Spending $1200+ on an MP3 player seems a bit ridiculous at this stage. I can put 10 MP3 CDs in my changer and have the same amount of music (6GB) as the base Empeg, but for 25% of the cost.

Sure, it's neat to have a "Linux" in your dashboard for all you geeks out there, but I just want to play MP3 music in my car and not mortgage my house to be able to do so :)

I can put 10 MP3 CDs in my changer and have the same amount of music (6GB) as the base Empeg, but for 25% of the cost.


It's just too bad your changer won't read MP3 cd's. I was also thinking of the Awia unit, but after hearing so many bad things about it I have decided to just keep on saving for an Empeg. Plus the Empeg looks way cooler.

And buy more CD's to record on eventually you'll spend the money on CDR's and still be swapping CD's back and forth. I also checked out the changers they don't work most of the time. Changing discs is not what I like to do, if I wanted to do that I would just use a regular CD changer like I have been doing, and they have been out for quite awhile.
A MP3 player (Empeg) is different than a CDR changer by a longshot. Think of it as a Winamp for the car.

reg#15786-red

That's not very HighTech either Alex

reg#15786-red

I promised myself I wasn't going to get trolled into this, but I've got a few minutes to kill.


There's a number of alternatives on the market today that looks much more attractive.

And in every case, the alternatives are only attractive because they are cheaper. Not because they are better. Look closely at the features and specifications (as well as the reviews) of the alternatives.


For example, Aiwa CDC-MP3 in-dash player that plays CD-R disks with MP3s (in addtion to regular CDs and AM/FM) for less than $300 bucks!!!

Ah, case in point. Go check out Anandtech's review of the CDC-MP3 and you'll see that it needs to index the CD prior to playing it, resulting in a long pause (30 seconds or more, depending on the CD) before it spits out the first tune. Also, it pauses between tracks. The Empeg, on the other hand, boots very quickly and switches tracks instantly.

And you can only fit about 10 CD's worth of music onto a CD-R. This makes the CDC-MP3 an interesting replacement for a CD changer, but the Empeg's certainly got it beat in the capacity department.


I can put 10 MP3 CDs in my changer and have the same amount of music (6GB) as the base Empeg, but for 25% of the cost.

As the other gentleman pointed out, the changer won't read MP3s, only the head unit. So you're still stuck swapping discs (unless you only own 20 albums).


I just want to play MP3 music in my car and not mortgage my house to be able to do so.

And if that's all you want, then the CDC-MP3 will certainly do that cheaply. But I think you're missing the point about the Empeg.

You see, the fact that it plays MP3s is (to me) just a technicality. I don't own the Empeg so I can play MP3s. I own the Empeg so that I can play my entire album collection without swapping discs. The fact that it requires the MP3 format to get the job done is unimportant to me. Whatever the format, it's the only product that can do this for me.

I think that's the main "image" problem that MP3 car audio has right now: Most folks simply have a handful of Napster'd files they want to hear in their car. And products like the Aiwa will let them do it pretty cheaply. The Empeg seems like expensive overkill at that point. And for that crowd, I'd say the Empeg probably is too expensive, and it is overkill. But I'm not one of that crowd. For me, the Empeg is worth every penny.

___________
Tony Fabris

> And buy more CD's to record on eventually you'll spend the money on CDR's

Uhmm.. for a price of 25c per CDR, I'd have to buy some 4000 disks to break even with Empeg! I think this point is a bit silly. Cost of CDR media is hardly a factor.

I stand corrected on my point about CD changer - I didn't realize the changer won't read the MP3 CDs. Even still 15 hours of music per disk isn't so bad. An inconvinience of swapping a CD on the go is a price I am willing to pay for nearly one thousand dollars.

the main "image" problem

Tony, that is exactly what I have been thinking. And I think you put it the best way I could imagine. You should add that point to the Anadtech board while you're at it.

As for my view on the Aiwa unit, I think it's great. I fully understand the expense of the empeg. It is alot of money. I worked the entire summer for the cash to pay for it and new system components in my car. But I wasn't going to go the cheaper route on something like this. I wanted the best the market had to offer and I wanted it to be proffesionaly built.

The Aiwa is certainly proffesionally built, perhaps in some ways even more so than the empeg, but that's a huge car audio company that's been in the biz for a long time. The empeg has it beat in every other respect aside from not being able to read CD's.

As for that area, it also happens that I didn't bring any CD's to school with me. I left them home so I would have them available to me there and they couldn't get lost/stolen, so it happens to work out for me that the empeg replaces every single CD you own when you are in your car.

If price is your only factor, the empeg is a difficult justification. Do as much research as you can on all the options, check your accounts, and make the decision that's best for you.

DiGNAN

what was the point of even posting this

Tony, may thoughts exactly, but also...

Another point I'd like to add is the ability to enhance the Empeg over time. It will not become obsolete as quickly as other items like the Aiwa unit. Since the Empeg is largely software driven, it can be upgraded over time. It was hard for me to justify buying a car unit for $1200+. But since I know it can be continually upgraded almost as easily as I upgrade my WinAmp player on my PC, I worry less about the money being "wasted" 2 to 4 years from now and took the plunge. For example, while the urgency of WMA support has been debated elsewhere on the board, I know that this player can be fitted with WMA support should it prove a better format for music quality/file size. Chances of the Aiwa unit being able to support this down the road if it didn't have it to begin with? Slim and none. As new formats continue to emerge (in this still infant digital music era), I know I'll be able to keep up, while the "cheap but effective" crowd is left looking to purchase yet another head unit.

HW costs are always decreasing, so HD upgrades will always be available too. If I fill up my HD in a year or two, fine - I'll buy the latest 72 Gb notebook HD from IBM and instantly sextuple my capacity - and achieve the goal of "having my enire music collection at my disposal". (With 72 Gb and emerging smaller file formats, I may get to have more than just my entire music collection)!

Oh yeah, and I can move this between cars too!

Just my $0.02...

- John
Red #080000487

Not really, your still swapping in and out of the changer, which is no different than a regular CD changer.
Why not just switch with regular CD's rather than copying one then transfering it to another.
The price is higher because of buying the CD ($12.00) then buying the CDR (as u say $.25) why bother cutout the middleman.

reg#15786-red

CDR cost not a factor your still here, what is it your looking for?

reg#15786-red

what was the point of even posting this

It's such an obvious troll that it's not even funny.

Borislav

I also got my invitation to order and cannot at this time afford to buy an empeg. But I will not waste $300 on a product I know I would become very unhappy with very quickly. I will wait until I can buy what I know to be the best even if it might be version III or IV by the time I can afford it. The $300 that the AIWA costs can be better put to buying an amp. Also I have an AIWA bookshelf stereo that certainly wouldn't compare to high end in-home stereo equipment and hasn't held up well over time. I would at least like to be able to listen to good music in my car someday. I believe that the empeg will always be ahead of the competition.

Laura

I live to launch.

> Why not just switch with regular CD's rather than copying one then transfering it to another.

Because a CDR with MP3s holds 10 regular CDs. I thought that was blatantly obvious.

> I will wait until I can buy what I know to be the best even if it might be version III or
> IV by the time I can afford it.

Have fun waiting. In computers/electronics industry you can be waiting forever, because there is always something newer.. something better.. something more expensive. I like to enjoy life now. When my $300 AIWA unit becomes obsolete, I simply eBay it, and get something else.

I realize that but the Empeg will hold (ru ready) all of your CD's just upgrade the HDD when cheap.
[u]All of your music[/u]
BTW you still have to shuffle CDR's. Not me everythings on the Empeg.
OK

reg#15786-red

Also I have an AIWA bookshelf stereo that certainly wouldn't compare to high end in-home stereo equipment and hasn't held up well over time.

I was also very unimpressed with the AIWA mini system I had. A lot of noise and the surround speakers did not work at all. I tried to get it repaired under warranty, it came back with a "resoldered loose wire" and all problems still intact. So I won't be buying AIWA stuff again.

Borislav

Because a CDR with MP3s holds 10 regular CDs. I thought that was blatantly obvious.

And a 40 GB empeg holds more than 600 regular CDs. I thought that was blatantly obvious.

Rude sniping aside (my apologies, but I couldn't resist -- your post made such a tempting target) , there are intangibles at work here that until you have actually had use of an empeg will be difficult to understand.

The empeg changes both how you listen to your music, and what you listen to. Rather than reiterate these things, look at my post here and follow the link therein to Tony's post as well, and you'll start to understand why we're crazy enough to spend $1500+ on a music player.

I'll probably be banned from the bbs for saying this but for the majority of people, the empeg is not the best stereo system. It is expensive, it is complicated to operate, requires a lot of upkeep to keep it supplied with new music and requires external amplifiers and tuners to operate. Yet for the elite few who are really serious about music in their car, there is simply nothing else available with the capabilities of the empeg, and the fact that it is also a linux computer gives opportunity for as-yet-undreamt-of additional capabilities in the future.

tanstaafl.

ps: I am quite proud of the fact that our little empeg community did not rise to the "flame bait" implicit in this thread!




"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Do you have nothing better to do than preach to the converted? You aren't going to make anyone here think differently of the empeg, so if you want to try and convince others with arguments that aren't pertinent to the empeg, try the mp3.com message board.


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446

When my $300 AIWA unit becomes obsolete, I simply eBay it, and get something else.

...say, in around a few months from now - whereupon, it will be worth about $1.00.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Too expensive... Hmm, expensive relative to what? Is Audi A8 too expensive compared to Neon? If you need something to bring your groceries in, yes. If you need sometning to travel 500 miles a day without noticing and will last for 20 years, no. How large the target population is for which it is affordable is entirely different question. Saying 'it is too expensive' and 'I cannot afford it' are two quite different things. (I cannot afford Audi...)

Too late... Just how late can the first product in a class be? Aiwa you are mentioning does not compare, like 3-CD home changer does not compare to 3x300 Sony system. This does not mean, of course, that one cannot decide that the former is good enough, for the price.

You would be surprised how many people here are not Linux geeks, or geeks at all. The main empeg selling points are capability to hold your entire music collection and upgradeability. You say you will eBay Aiwa when it becomes obsolete? Why would anyone want to buy it then? We are getting WAV and M$ format suport in few weeks. If Ogg Vorbis takes of, we will have that, too. Likewise for losless compression algorithms if they achieve anything worthwhile (they are around 30%-40% space saving now). Interfacing with GPS, engine management and your granny's pacemaker is cool, but entirely peripheral.

The (announced) product that might start to aproach status of lower-cost (and lower capability) competition is PhatNoise - I recomend that you read about them on this BBS and their site before you decide. They basically emulate CD-changer with a hard disk based unit. Then again, they seem to have a number of problems and will cost more than half the empeg cost. (BTW, empeg guys did design of a similar product for an unspecified customer - not this one, PhatNoise is not designed well enough to be their child ).

Finally, don't look at empeg as a mass-market product. It will never be that, and was never intended to be. These guys earn most of daily bread designing cool stuff for 'big boys' - like Rio Receiver also sold by Dell. empeg-car is their flagship, something to say 'see what we can do'.

So, I urge you to consider all factors again. If Aiwa again ends up the winner, well, enjoy it!

Cheers!

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

You'll have a slight problem putting a changer on the Aiwa - only the CD mech in the head unit supports MP3-CDs. If you attach a changer, it will only do standard audio CDs.

I'm sure they'll come out with a MP3-CD changer soon, but I've no idea whether the interface will be compatible with the CDC-MP3.

Hvae fun with the (up to) 2 minute wait when you put in a disc while it's scanned by the Aiwa, and the up to 5 second pauses between tracks ;)

Hugo

I agree, it's like a comparison between a game console and a full desktop. You can play games on both, but the desktop can do so much more. True that the gameconsole might perform better in some situations... then again, can you open a telnet session to your Aiwa mp3 player?


car, n:
wheels, engine, seat and music
-uh oh-..and a roof, depending on the weather...

Actually, the way Ebay auctions usually go with overvalued bids it could be as high as $10.00.

reg#15786-red

Well, technically, the empeg does everything better than the Aiwa. It just doesn't do the same things as the Aiwa, yet it's all the better for it.

DiGNAN

After following this thread and the one from the guy on MP3.com about how much better the Aiwa & Kenwood CD/MP3 players are, I still can't figure out if you can actually remove the Aiwa or Kenwood unit, take it into the house or workplace and plug it in and pick up where you left off on the music. As far as I can tell, they are only detachable face units. I spend more time at work and home than in the car, and the empeg goes in to work with me and plays all day, then goes home. The ride is a half hour, work is 12 hours at a time (nearing project end, a new ARM processor with a floating point unit!!! :o) ) so except for the three hour drives for fishing, most of my empeg use is in the office. Check out my set-up here, it's a 95k file, I haven't compressed it yet...
So, basically, it's more than a car mp3 player, it's an "anywhere you have aux input" mp3 player...

Dave Clark
Austin, Texas
12g Amber

Nope, it doesn't. That's why it plays CD's

I agree. this is a major point that alot of people have been missing. In fact, I don't play MP3's on my computer anymore. I always hook up my empeg instead.

DiGNAN

Hello HighTechAlex,

I think you're on the wrong BBS. I recommend you buy the Aiwa mp3 unit and have a ball, and then go and discuss its problems, bugs and features on the Aiwa mp3 unofficial bbs. Whoops, there isn't one. Then later on, when you can afford an empeg, you can come back here and talk about it.

Calvin "mean bastard"