I just dont get it...

I rewired all of the dash connections for my Rio...re-ran the ground..put it all back

Ground loop was gone

it took only 3 days to find its way back!!!

I find it impossible to beleive that what works on one day does not work on another day!!

How on earth (no pun intended) can a ground connection work on Sunday and not work on Wendsday!?!?!?!?!?

the whine is audible and annoying to the point that soft passages are impossible to listen to!

I have tried various wiring configuration in the past and all have solved the problem only to find in a few days that the noise emerges once again!!!

To all you scientists out there...please think outside that damn box and offer any oddball solution you can think of!!

Thanks...Ed

Just a wee thought on what can cause differences one day to the next - moisture, perhaps.

Dampness or moisture may be able to affect conductivity in various areas - have you noticed any correlation between your whine and the weather.

a) What is grounded where?
b) Any pattern, including weather conditions? (Perhaps lights, defrosters, heaters, rainwater are changing the conditions.)

Good point.....im in NJ and this happend if the summer..winter..whenever!

I really cant find any correlation at all

However...I did use the stock radio wiring harness ground..which always works fine (at first) but the whine creeps back

i have a hunch that there is something amis within the Rio itself for I have a Sony player going into the AUX in on the Rio..and when i hook just the sony up i have absolutely no problem...ever..

what internal wiring in the rio might cause this?

i did have dome dry solder joints where the IDE cable hooks up to the motherboard and repared them.....perhaps a less than perfect soldering job would cause this (but then..why would it go away when i re-run the grounds?)

What about heaters / defrosters? It has been a tad cold in NJ recently...

I can have all the electronics off but the Rio and it doesnt change a thing.....

keep in mind...if i disconnect the Rio and just run the Sony there is absolutely no noise at all......i tried to isolate where it was coming from on the rio---perhaps the sled---so i disconnected the rear leads from the sled and hooked it directly to the Rio...no difference

i bypassed the harness from the rio to the wiring harness of the car (only for the ground wire)...no difference

get an extension cord and run the rio unharnessed, connected to the amp. try to see if the problem is the empeg or the amp.

Ahhhh good Idea.....I will give that a try

Get a ground loop isolater from Circuit City. I had to do that on another stereo install I did a while back and it fixed it. It connects into the RCA cable connections.

what i am experiencing is a which varies exactly with the rev of the engine

i have already installed one between the Sony and the Rio for i was getting a lot of noise there as well...but it was more like white noise than whine

if i get this where exactly would you recommend i install it??

That is going to be, pretty much by definition, an alternator whine. Search for that on Google or some audio websites and they'll give you some pointers on resolving it. There are also a lot of links in this FAQ.

One of the things I seem to remember that you probably haven't messed with is to check the ground of the alternator itself. This could have gotten dirty, especially is the car is older.

it took only 3 days to find its way back!!!

Hmmm. This is something like the third time that's happened to you, right? You mess with the wiring, the ground loop goes away, it works fine for a while, then it comes back. Right?

Question:

The wiring connections... All of them, everywhere in the system, every wire you connected...

Are they soldered or crimped?

Tony,

Thanks for remembering! Yes, this is probably the third time i have has this happen!

To answer your question...all of the wiring that was done for the installation was either crimped or wire-nutted (?)

nothing was soldered

all cables are monster cables and the hot wires for the amps are all heavy gauge

I have the output from the Rio going to an MTX..which then leads to an Alping (for the sub)

I have the hot wire in the dash, from the stock wiring harness, tied into both the sony and the rio

i have the sled, the sony and the rio tied together and grounded to the stock ground..which is a much heavier gauge wire than either unit has

between the sony and the rio i have a noise suppressor

and again...this is the killer


When i hook the sony up directly to the amp, thus bypassig the rio..i have absolutely no noise!!!

that is why i think there is something going on inside the rio

and FWIW...one time the noise came back just about the same time i was have a dry solder porblem with the ide cable....

all of the wiring that was done for the installation was either crimped or wire-nutted

Solder and shrink-tube everything.

Have you checked the sled for loose wires? The older Mark2 sleds had a problem where the pins could pull out. Perhaps you have a weak connection there?

Paul

I did check all of the wires on the sled

even took the unit apart and followed the ground wire from the rear connector to the connector on the mother board

late at night i can hear a small snicker from my beloved Rio....

An easy way to eliminate the empeg itself is to borrow a friend's or acquaintance's and try it out in your car. I can think of at least one other board member in NJ and at least one in New York if you don't know anyone that has one.

If you need to an empeg or car to test with, let me know. I'm in Rockland county.

Excellent point. At least you would be able to eliminate half of the equation.

Where r u located Paul? Unless I am totally wrong you should be not too far from where i am!

You have PM. During the day is really the best time to find me.

Sent you a PM Paul.

Well got in the car and the annoyance gnomes did their best for the whine is louder than yesterday....and i mean LOUD!

maybe this is one for the Twilight Zone....man commits sucicide as gnomes laugh in the background...

Dumb question: have you tested just the Rio alone without the Sony head unit connected to the Aux In? Edit: Checking to see if the aux in is part of the problem. I know you have a noise suppressor on it.

Edit2: Also, What happens if you have the empeg out/in sled and powered on/off when you have the signal lines connected to the Sony? Do you get noise?

Paul..I did pull the sony out and there was no difference

re#2..unfortunately the amp sensor is tied into the Rio (the amps wont turn on when the rip is not in and turned on as well)

however...when i do reconfigure the setup and have the sensor to the sony AND the line outs from the sony directly to the amp...crystal clear

strange..huh?

Hmmm... When you are in that reconfigured mode (amp control and signal from the Sony), do you get any noise if you plug the empeg into the sled? In this state, the empeg would be fully isolated from the signal path and the amp control path, so that would leave only power / ground off of that shared connector that could be causing the noise. If you did not get any noise with the empeg powered, that would only leave the empeg's signal path as the source of the noise.

What kind of amp do you have and how old is it? I know when I did my installation I had to debug a ground loop. Turns out that I had to resolder the RCA jack on the amp itself as they had faulty connections.

Perhaps, but the fact that there is no noise if the sony is directly connected to the amp makes me think that it is something with either the power / ground being shared by the player and head unit, or the signal connections of the player.

Paul,

I never tried that! I understand what you are saying so will give it a try this weekend..makes perfect sence....

I have an MTX 4 ch amp....2 years old

and an Alpine which i would guess within 5 years old

im just worried about what happens when he plugs any of your many empegs in and they all start whining. maybe its a personal problem, do you notice other things whine when youre near, ed? wife, children, small dogs perhaps.