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#196616 - 11/06/2004 14:37 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: genixia]
russell
journeyman

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 50
It may have made it a little more difficult to solder one side down, but I think most of my problems were cause by the leads not being straight enough and at the right angle. and as i said 32 -48 was easy no problems at all!

Russell
_________________________
Mk2a 64mb 60gb

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#196617 - 11/06/2004 16:40 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
That is sick, twisted and evil! Congratulations!!! !!!

By the way, you really should fsck your drives when you have time...

And if anyone is feeling lucky or adventurous and wants to order more RAM, I still have some left.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196618 - 11/06/2004 18:06 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: pgrzelak]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
hold on to one or two for me... i think one of my chips is bad i just haven't had a free second to finish troubleshooting it.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#196619 - 11/06/2004 22:30 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14414
Loc: Canada
Very well done!!!

You win!

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#196620 - 11/06/2004 22:36 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: mlord]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
He certainly does!

<Me checks fhe SA datasheet for RAS4>

_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#196621 - 12/06/2004 02:27 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: genixia]
russell
journeyman

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 50
now whos going to be the first person to use some external logic to go further :-))

Russell
_________________________
Mk2a 64mb 60gb

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#196622 - 12/06/2004 14:53 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14414
Loc: Canada
Actually, external logic may not be needed -- the higher address lines are still there waiting for something to connect to them.. I suppose an invertor might be needed if the same size chips were used, but with larger chips..

Cheers

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#196623 - 12/06/2004 15:08 A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: mlord]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

I had a brief moment of panic with LabRat today, just back from having been brought to 48MB of RAM. Plugged it into the car for the first time since the upgrade. Nothing. I could see it boot, but then it went into "Tommy mode" (deaf, dumb and blind). Nothing I did would get it to work. And me without a redundant player at the moment!!!

So I brought it back in under AC power. No problems. Reflashed. Same thing, same results. Then it finally struck me:

LabRat had never been in the car before! The dimmer was 0% (on a very sunny day with a clear lens), volume was -infinity, no beeps. So, no feedback, no matter what button or knob pressed (deaf); no audio out, beeps or anything (dumb); no visuals, screen display or even hijack menu (blind).

Duh.

Found it in the (dark) house with AC power in use, but forcing the player to think it was on DC. Adjusted my settings and now everything works fine!

Duh...

I thought I would share that with everyone, for your amusement...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196624 - 12/06/2004 15:15 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: mlord]
russell
journeyman

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 50
My Boolean algebra is a little rusty but this is the logic i belive would be nessecery

RAS1a= RAS1 and not A13
RAS1b = RAS1 and A13

I have no idea what effect this would have on chip refresh!

If someonw can confirm that this won't affect refresh, i have another 16mb here :-))

Russell
_________________________
Mk2a 64mb 60gb

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#196625 - 12/06/2004 15:36 Re: A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: pgrzelak]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31503
Loc: Seattle, WA
went into "Tommy mode" (deaf, dumb and blind).
LOL, I'm going to have to remember that one for future re-use.
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Tony Fabris

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#196626 - 12/06/2004 17:28 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14414
Loc: Canada
Something like that. But Hijack won't find or use anything beyond 16MB/bank on the Mk2a.

-ml

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#196627 - 14/06/2004 06:25 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
I think the issue may also be that if you add more ram like this, it won't be refreshed by the CPU, hence won't actually store anything.

It's almost certainly not worth the hassle. If you wanted more memory beyond 64MB then you'd be better off putting a ramdisk on the IDE bus and swapping to it.

Hugo

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#196628 - 14/06/2004 09:34 Re: A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: pgrzelak]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
<Must resist temptation to set Hermit's AC dimmer to 0%>
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#196629 - 14/06/2004 09:36 Re: A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: genixia]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
AC Dimmer??? Neat concept, but...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196630 - 14/06/2004 09:50 Re: A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: pgrzelak]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Good point.

<Must resist temptation to set Force DC Mode and Dimmer to 0%>
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#196631 - 14/06/2004 09:52 Re: A Tommy moment, with apologies to The Who. [Re: genixia]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
LOL. Much better!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196632 - 14/06/2004 13:25 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: altman]
russell
journeyman

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 50
I thought that was the case, Looking at the datasheet for the SA all the banks have to be of the same configuration. Whilest it would be possible to add another 32 or 64 mb. I won't be the first to try that one!

64mb is plenty at the moment, as i'm not currently running any other software. It would be nice if the player could be tweaked to use more ram especially for those of us wishing to play FLAC's etc.

Russell
_________________________
Mk2a 64mb 60gb

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#196633 - 14/06/2004 23:54 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Yep, a release which deals with extra memory is high on the list of things to get done

Hugo

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#196634 - 15/06/2004 02:09 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: altman]
skibum
enthusiast

Registered: 27/03/2002
Posts: 248
Loc: Swindon, UK
Hugo iis this likely to be a new v3 (alpha or beta) or maybe a v2.01 or similiar?
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Andy MK2a 60GB Amber 040103916 32mb/Light Kit MK2a 50GB Amber 030102560 32mb

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#196635 - 15/06/2004 04:06 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: skibum]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
I seem to remember something about V2.00 staying as it is and all changes are made to the current code (V3).
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#196636 - 15/06/2004 06:09 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: skibum]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
I was detecting sarcasm in that post but maybe it's just me ?
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Matt

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#196637 - 15/06/2004 09:12 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: skibum]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31503
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hugo iis this likely to be a new v3 (alpha or beta) or maybe a v2.01 or similiar?
There will not be a 2.01. Another release of the V3 alpha code is likely. If tradition holds, Amersfoort will be The Place To Be...
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Tony Fabris

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#196638 - 15/06/2004 09:14 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: tfabris]
skibum
enthusiast

Registered: 27/03/2002
Posts: 248
Loc: Swindon, UK
Well I'm off to Amersfoort this year so thats what I was hoping anyway.

I'd just prefer a v2 as its nice and stable and I don't require anything that v3 currently gives me.
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Andy MK2a 60GB Amber 040103916 32mb/Light Kit MK2a 50GB Amber 030102560 32mb

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#196639 - 15/06/2004 16:25 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: skibum]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Naw, V3 is the way to go. I'm just waiting for it to emerge from the Alpha stage.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#196640 - 16/06/2004 00:23 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: russell]
bjoern
member

Registered: 03/04/2002
Posts: 169
Loc: Regensburg, Germany
Hmmm interesting and long thread. Will there possibly be a write-up of the procedure, similar to the disk upgrade page? I'd be interested in memory upgrading, but I'm not confident enough I'd get all the important steps right without some nice documentation.
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32MB, serial: 10101626

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#196641 - 16/06/2004 11:57 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: bjoern]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
This is one of those "If you really have to ask then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it" kind of mods. The pitch of the memory chips' pins is 0.8mm. The CPU pins have a pitch of a mere 0.6mm.

But since you asked;

1). Wear an antistatic wriststrap, use an ESD-safe temperature-controlled soldering iron. and plenty of flux.
2). Straighten the pins on the new chips so that they will reach the old chips. Bend the RAS pins out slightly.
3). Solder the new chips to the old chips, pin for pin with the exception of the RAS pins.
4). Use a continuity meter to probe for open and bridged pins.
5). Wire both RAS pins on the new chips to RAS1 on the StrongArm.
6). Test, decipher any memory error messages using the memory datasheet to identify pins*.
7). Retouch problem pins to remove errors.
8). Test and rejoice.

The SA1100 datasheet is easy to google for, and Micron keep the memory datasheet available in their support section.

* - To decipher error messages;
The memory test uses 4 patterns written across the data lines, 0x00000000, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xAAAAAAAA, and 0x55555555.

0x00000000 - An error from this write is usually caused by a data pin shorted to an adjacent VDD pin.
0xFFFFFFFF - An error from this write is caused either by a data pin shorted to an adjacent VSS pin or more usually by an open connection.
0x55555555 and 0xAAAAAAAA are caused by two adjacent pins shorted together - the patterns translate to binary 0101...0101 and 1010...1010 respectively. What should be a zero comes back as a one because of the short.

The error message reports what was written and what was read. Compare one to the other and see where the error is. The highest 16 bits of the data are on the chip furthest from the CPU.

So for example, "wrote 0xFFFFFFFF, read 0xFFAFF1FF" can be broken down to;

Chip furthest from CPU - 0xFFAF. We can futher break this down visually - 0xFF means that the high 8 bits are correct, 0xAF means that the lowest 4 bits are correct, and the problems are in D7...D4. 0xA is binary 1010, so the problem pins are D6 and D4, both low when they should be high. Looking at the datasheet you will see that pins 7 and 9 are probably open.

Chip nearest CPU - 0xF1FF. Breaking it down again, lowest 8 bits are fine as are topmost 4 bits, problem is in D11...D8. 0x1 is binary 0001. Pins D11, D10 and D9 are all low when they should be high. Looking at the datasheet shows that pins 44, 43 and 42 are the culprits. You will also notice that pin 45 is Vss, so it's possible that one or more of those pins are shorted together with pin 45. Or they might simply be open.

Another example, "wrote 0xAAAAAAAA, read 0xAAAAAAEA";

Problem is in lowest 16 bits, ie chip nearest CPU, 0xAAEA. Further breaking it down, highest 8 bits and lowest 4 bits are fine, problem is in D7...D4.
Wrote 0xA = binary 1010. Read 0xE = binary 1110. Problem is D6 high when it should be low, shorted to either D7 or D5. Datasheet gives D6 as pin 9. (D7= 10, D5 = 8)

There are three problems that won't fall into any of those error classes. A bad RAS connection or a bad OE connection can both manifest as an error where the whole chip refuses to talk back, such as the error that Stu had earlier in this thread.
A totally non-booting empeg, or one that crashes even after passing the memory test is usually caused by soldering errors on the address lines. Some errors will prevent the flash from being read and hence the kernel can't load, whereas others won't affect the player until the kernel attempts to use the memory space impacted.
Unfortunately it isn't possible to debug this further to individual pins.

For 48MB, rinse and repeat using RAS2 on the CPU.
For 64MB add another spin cycle using RAS3.

Note that 48MB or more increases the physical complexity signicantly and is really not recommended.

BIG FAT DISCLAIMER - I ACCEPT NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ACTIONS TAKEN UPON INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN THIS PURELY INFORMATIONAL POST.

_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#196642 - 16/06/2004 14:46 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: genixia]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
holy crap
nice write-up

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#196643 - 17/06/2004 01:34 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: genixia]
bjoern
member

Registered: 03/04/2002
Posts: 169
Loc: Regensburg, Germany
Cool write-up, thanks!

I sort of figured that it's a "if you really have to ask then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it" kind of mod. But from what I've learned from this thread, all you theoretically need is a steady hand, good equipment and good instructions.
I work at a university, so we have the equipment. I'm a biologist and have dissected fruitfly brains out of their head capsules under a dissecting 'scope (yes, the tiny flies that start buzzing around your house if you let fruit sit on your table for too long), so I got the steady hand. But I'm by no means an electronics freak, so I couldn't figure any of this out on my own. I've built PCA's tuner kit, but I don't know if it's working, because I haven't had time to test it, yet.
But maybe I could get the RAM upgrade done if the instructions were detailed enough?
I dunno, you tell me

So I see the RAS is on pin 14 of the memory chip you linked to. And on the StrongArm it's pin 18, according to this datasheet.
From the pics in this thread it all seems to be a matter of proper soldering? Also, I take it that the #1 pins need to be matched?
How much are the memory chips and are they easily obtainable in any reasonable electronic store? On the micron page, e.g., I find three products linking to the datasheet you provided. Which of these is it? Also, I couldn't find any prices on micron.com.

Again, thanks a lot for your write-up!
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32MB, serial: 10101626

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#196644 - 17/06/2004 04:24 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: bjoern]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I thought I knew most of the basic concepts for biology, but I have never heard of dissecting fruit flies. That certainly makes you qualified on the coordination front. But I have to ask - I can understand removing a friut fly's brain, but what studies can you do based on that?

As for some of the other questions, those I can answer. The exact part number you should watch for is MT4LC4M16R6TG-5. I have already done a bulk purchase of the memory chips for folks on the board. See instructions in this thread. You might be able to get them from an electronics store, but I have not really seen them available. This was a bulk order from a parts locator company that specializes in buying remainders, etc. The memory is obsolete now (according to the datasheet on the Micron site), so you do not see it often except in older devices.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196645 - 17/06/2004 05:43 Re: Hijack v394: support for up to 64MB DRAM on Mk [Re: pgrzelak]
bjoern
member

Registered: 03/04/2002
Posts: 169
Loc: Regensburg, Germany
But I have to ask - I can understand removing a friut fly's brain, but what studies can you do based on that?
You can use various techniques to visualize e.g. three-dimensional gene expression in the brain:
http://www.flybrain.org/Flybrain/html/vrml/3dbrain.html
That link is fairly old, but shows the basics.

So I just PayPal you $33 and will get the ram in the mail? Hell yeah I'll do that. It'll take me years to find the time to install them, but at least I know I can do it any time
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