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#196286 - 06/01/2004 05:46 How things could become more difficult...
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2597
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
... if an Empeg owner wants to upgrade in the future!!

It seems that Fujitsu has developed the first 2.5" Serial ATA harddisk !

Well, as long as they keep producing the IDE versions too, we should be fine...
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Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#196287 - 06/01/2004 05:52 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: BartDG]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Don't look at me - I just upgraded less than a year ago! Tempting, though...

Seriously, the main bottleneck is the IDE bus speed in the empeg. Even if you could find some way to convert the adapter type, you will not see any benefit from the speed. And we are already starting to hit danger points with the size of the hard drive and available memory in the empeg...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196288 - 06/01/2004 12:46 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: pgrzelak]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
I remember a thread regarding the possibility to increase the amount of ram memory in an empeg. Not an easy task, I remember, but if that could be done physically somehow (no clue if it it possible theoretically), then probably a software update would not be totally impossible now that through Karma the code is still being developed to a certain extent...
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#196289 - 06/01/2004 13:09 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: Taym]
foxtrot_xray
addict

Registered: 03/03/2002
Posts: 687
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia

physically somehow (no clue if it it possible theoretically


I really, really hope that it could be done in theory before in all practicality. (Unless you work for my company, which is selling systems for $30k to house nothing more than 50 million phone numbers..) Sheesh.

Me.
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Mike 'Fox' Morrey 128BPM@124MPH. Love it! 2002 BRG Mini Cooper

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#196290 - 06/01/2004 13:41 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: foxtrot_xray]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I really, really hope that it could be done in theory before in all practicality.
Ah, if only the marketing people could understand this . . .
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#196291 - 06/01/2004 16:01 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: foxtrot_xray]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Sorry guys, my English is sometimes theoretically and practically awful


Edited by taym (06/01/2004 16:02)
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#196292 - 06/01/2004 16:56 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: Taym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Adding RAM yourself is something definately not fun if Patrick said it would be difficult to do!

The relevant thread post are here and here.

Basically on a Mk1 it's quite easy as the IC positions are already there on the bottom, just unfilled. The Mk2 is going to be very difficult as you're reaching the limits of the layout and design. The Mk2A however is technically possible but you'd have to stick the extra RAM on top of the existing chips and then wire in the chip select lines directly to the SA.

Another point was that the protected bootloader does the initialisation of the extra RAM. You can't change the bootloader without opening up the player and shorting the write protection points. I think Mark Lord has mentioned in the past that he would probably be able to change the kernel to do the initialisation for the extra RAM but I can't find the post at the moment.

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#196293 - 06/01/2004 19:28 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: tman]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Thanks Trevor. Interesting threads. Well, definitely not an easy task, maybe in Mark 3....

On that note, have you guys ever found yourself thinking of what you would really like to see in the Mark 3, if it ever ended up being produced?

- Gb Ethernet interface
- WiFi 802.11g
- USB2
- FireWire
- Color LCD Display
- Integrated Radio
- >160Gb HDD (This can be actually achieved easily in few months with current Mark 2, but I was just trying to make this list appealing for Paul too... ).
- Coffee machine.

Ok. I'll stop.



Edited by taym (06/01/2004 19:31)
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#196294 - 07/01/2004 01:14 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: BartDG]
Chaosium
new poster

Registered: 31/12/2003
Posts: 4
Why, the SATA just means that our large IDE HDDs will be available cheaper

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#196295 - 07/01/2004 05:03 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: Taym]
pototo
new poster

Registered: 07/01/2004
Posts: 17
Loc: Zaragoza - SPAIN
Has really anything been said about a possible development of a Mark 3 at all?

I know anything is possible but, are the any signs in that direction? I just might have missed something, and since I am willing to get an empeg player (I haven't got one jet and I am new here) it would be nice to know if I have to wait a little bit more, or just for ever

Uf, that list of funtionalities is real good. I had a dream.... too!
_________________________
________ Javier F. 040103285 (20GB Mk2a, [blue]blue[/blue])

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#196296 - 07/01/2004 05:30 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: Taym]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
[Lurch]

...you rang...

[/Lurch]

I hate to say it, but one feature I would want in a Mark 3 would be greater ease for integrating it into existing car stereo systems. Cars today are so unfriendly to third party stereo upgrades that you basically have to rip apart the entire dash(sometimes more) to install the system you want.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196297 - 07/01/2004 05:52 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: pgrzelak]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
Personally, I don't think a mark 3 is the way to go, but better integration with stock HU's is. How about something like the Karma with more gigs (Presumably more gigs in less space is only a matter of time), home and car sleds, the latter with a sophisticated interface with a dashboard display, controls and battery charger: Best of three worlds, home, car and portable.
Ah Well, one can dream!
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag

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#196298 - 07/01/2004 10:17 Re: How things could become more difficult... [Re: boxer]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Yes, something like that would work well in my view. A simple extra display is better than an entire din slot, in these days. I can't imagine how integrated that would be with the factory system, though. I can imagine a separate system which is however easier to install since it does not require a standard din slot... Which is probably better: I may be underestimating this integration aspect, but when I think of integration to factory systems I think of many limitations on the display info available, commands available, etc. ONe think I always liked of the empeg is the player software itself. I would not want to lose something like that, honestly...


Edited by taym (07/01/2004 10:19)
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#196299 - 02/02/2004 11:27 Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: tman]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
Last year in Amersfoort, adding more RAM was discussed as a what-if conversation. With the use of Alpha5, does the player software issue with the use of the additional RAM go away?

If so, anyone with steady enough hands want to try the add-on at this year's meet?

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#196300 - 02/02/2004 11:54 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
The bootloader isn't changed by upgrades. It's in the bit of the flash that is read only.

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#196301 - 02/02/2004 12:16 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: tman]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14130
Loc: Canada
I think there were two issues:

(1) bootloader won't "enable" the ram -- fixable in the (Hijack) kernel.

(2) player s/w may not use the extra space (dunno) due to internal assumptions or whatever -- gotta try it and see, I suppose.

-ml

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#196302 - 02/02/2004 22:39 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: tman]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
As I understand things, there a 3 issues to solve

1-Physically install the RAM via some soldering magic

2-Flash the boot loader or as Mark suggest solve it in Hijack

3-Make the player software use the extra RAM

AFAIK, the Karma has 32 MB of RAM. V3 software is a branched from the Karma software. So is #3 now solved for the Empeg? Or is there other software that this issue affects?

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#196303 - 03/02/2004 02:28 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Karma's have 16MB of RAM...

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#196304 - 03/02/2004 02:46 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5622
Loc: London, UK
So is #3 now solved for the Empeg?

Not as far as I know. That particular bit of code isn't (IIRC) shared between the two codebases.
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#196305 - 03/02/2004 10:34 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: tman]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
Okay wrong again. I'm still would like to get someone to try to add the RAM. I figure the software issues won't get resolved unless a test is made to install additional RAM. Hugo, Patrick, Rob S, Stu? Any interest in trying this?

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#196306 - 03/02/2004 10:58 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14130
Loc: Canada
I know that RobS was working on adding the extra chips to his Mk1 at one point, but I never did get to adding code to "enable" them in Hijack yet.

cheers

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#196307 - 03/02/2004 13:28 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Roger]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
Any idea what the reason was? Or rather a question to which I could understand the answer, would the lack of code share cause #1 and #2 to be a lost cause if done?

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#196308 - 03/02/2004 13:32 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: mlord]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
I vaguely recall him discussing this at Amersfoort. How's the finger feeling these days? Care to do a little "enabling" if someone is agrees to play hummingbird with a soldering iron.

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#196309 - 03/02/2004 14:12 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14130
Loc: Canada
I might give it a go. I wonder if it would be easier to make up a little daughter board for the extra ram..

-ml

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#196310 - 03/02/2004 14:35 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: tman]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3932
Loc: Providence, RI
What of Karma's has 16mb of RAM?

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#196311 - 03/02/2004 14:39 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Daria]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I d'o'n't k'n'o'w. I hear his wheel breaks sometimes tho...

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#196312 - 03/02/2004 15:39 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: mlord]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 826
Loc: Texas, USA
Cool! Stu may have some ideas on the daughter board. I'll wait to see who weighs in on the topic.

I forsee a point where I'll need to do something different when I swap in another 80gb. Syncs are becoming a real drag with continual database rebuilds. I think some of my problems may be associated with how I'm tagging but I'm reluctant to re-edit tags and resync again. Is there a way to check how much memory my tags are using up?

Thanks-A

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#196313 - 03/02/2004 18:53 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: Mach]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1648
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Hmmm. a daughter board, well it would certainly require some support circuitry I would think. I doubt if the lines to the memory chips would be able to drive the cable leading to the daughter board without some kind of buffer arrangement at a minimum. Maybe I'm all wet, but I say stick with direct soldering.

Stu
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If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#196314 - 03/02/2004 19:06 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: maczrool]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Hmm... Random thought...

We have seen folks rig up an IDE -> CF interface. Would it be possible / practical to have a CF memory card installed and use it as swap space, configuring the swap to load as part of the boot cycle?

Granted, I would not be willing to sacrifice an IDE drive...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#196315 - 03/02/2004 19:28 Re: Thoughts of more RAM... [Re: pgrzelak]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Flash memory has limited erase cycles so you'll wear it out quite quickly if you're using it as swap.

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