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#197710 - 09/01/2004 15:07 pirates are all at sea
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin

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#197711 - 09/01/2004 15:14 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: RobotCaleb]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31267
Loc: Seattle, WA
Isn't it illegal to go "raiding" people when you're (a) not the police, and (b) don't have a search warrant? Especially if you impersonate the police when doing it?

I certainly agree that some guy selling pirated burned copies of CDs and DVDs in a parking lot is exactly the kind of person that the RIAA should go after, but this just sounds like the wrong way to go about it.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#197712 - 09/01/2004 15:16 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: tfabris]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
i think theyre asking to lose some money. i dont think it would take much for someone to sue and win, if theyre using these tactics.
its another reason why i pretty much refuse to pay for music from labels that are a part of the riaa. look where theyd be spending my money.

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#197713 - 09/01/2004 15:32 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: RobotCaleb]
Phil.
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2481
According to the article, they didn't even check to see if they were bootlegs.

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#197714 - 09/01/2004 16:29 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: tfabris]
number6
old hand

Registered: 30/04/2001
Posts: 744
Loc: In The Village or sometimes: A...
In reply to:


Isn't it illegal to go "raiding" people when you're (a) not the police, and (b) don't have a search warrant?




Well, thats how I recall it used to be in the US, before DMCA and 9/11.

Nowadays, it seems that the Big Corporations and industry self-appointed interest groups e.g. the RIAA, MPAA et al are the Police.

So far, the courts or anyone else seem powerless to effectively stop them from carrying on as if they are the law.

In reply to:


Especially if you impersonate the police when doing it?




I think the RIAA would disagree on that point that they are "impersonating" the Police. To do so, the officers would have to say they were police officers.

However, looking similar to the police is not an offense - Thats called using the "colour of authority".

A lot of people, organisations [and nation states] routinely pretend to have more authority than they really do in fact.
Usually it comes dressed up with a cloak of "moral rightness" and little else.

A recent example of this occured about March last year from memory...

In reply to:


I certainly agree that some guy selling pirated burned copies of CDs and DVDs in a parking lot is exactly the kind of person that the RIAA should go after, but this just sounds like the wrong way to go about it.




Can't disagree there, except I see no prima-facie evidence presented by the RIAA in that article to indicate that yes those particular CDs and DVDs were in fact pirate copies.

On the face of it, selling $5 CDs or DVDs would seem to indicate a pirate source, but thats for the RIAA to prove (in court) is the case.

Right now I can buy new $5 DVDs/CDs in my local music shop and I'm sure they aren't pirated copies. To be fair, they aren't very good DVD's or CD's i.e. the music is crap and usually the DVD movie contents are old crappy B&W films no-one particularly wants to buy. But then the RIAA didn't say that these were the latest release DVD's and CDs either.

I don't have trouble with the RIAA taking action, provided of course, that the parties being offended against [music copyright owners] by the pirate copies are in fact RIAA members. and have authorised the RIAA to act on their behalf.

But by getting these "voluntary" confessions the RIAA is of course neatly avoiding the need to actually present this pirated or not evidence to the courts and have it scrutinised.

A related question comes to mind - exactly what, will the RIAA will charge repeat "offenders" with?

Failing to comply with a voluntary "cease and desist" agreement?

Hardly a Federal offense - but these days you never know...

If as the RIAA seems to state, that most of these pirate street sellers are "Hispanics" [read illegals/potential terrorists/drug pushers whatever], then the most effective way to stop these guys from selling is to probably have the RIAA "field agents" go around with INS agents in tow. I'm sure the sellers of pirate DVDs and CDs would fear the INS more than the RIAA.

Still all the RIAA action will probably do is move them from the street onto Ebay or elsewhere "behind closed doors".

I do think the RIAA would be better to go after the distributors of this stuff - once its proven to be pirate copies - and that means only with search warrants issued by a judge.

The "distributor to the guy who used to be the distributor" in this story got off scott free - he lost nothing, except perhaps some "sales". But for every one of these "street sellers" the RIAA catch, the distributors will be getting at least two more to distribute for them.

Seems like a recipe to win the battle but lose the war.

Meantime everyones civil rights are getting trodden on left, right and centre.


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#197715 - 09/01/2004 17:04 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: number6]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Well, thats how I recall it used to be in the US, before DMCA and 9/11.
Yes, because if you violate intellectual property, then the terrorists have won.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#197716 - 09/01/2004 17:17 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: tonyc]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So the RIAA is building an army... nice. I'd like to see them try to confiscate my hard drive. They better be wearing level 5 body armor when they try it.

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#197717 - 09/01/2004 17:26 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: tonyc]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Well, they're getting all that money from pot sales too.

Christ.

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#197718 - 09/01/2004 19:30 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
That was my point when the RIAA went to hack into computers of suspected traders. I'd like to see DirecTV try to blow up everyone's TV who they suspected of using hacked cards..

When you'd listen to the RIAA talk in interviews, they'd talk like they were the LAW. The seem at peace with the idea of taking the law into their own hands and iwth their lobbies, they can nearly get that power anyway. I used to think that the downloaders were doing something wrong but that they got into the habit of it because the recording industry offered them no alternative. Kind or a "both sides are wrong" view. But the more I learn about the RIAA, I almost want to install KaZaA Lite on my computer just to hurt them a bit! Sad eh? But then I hear some idiot talk about doing this or that because he's a "poor student" who can afford a college education but will starve if they can't download their Limp Bizcuit. Sigh..

Naw, F that, the RIAA is still worse.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#197719 - 09/01/2004 20:22 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
When you'd listen to the RIAA talk in interviews, they'd talk like they were the LAW.

Actually, it seems to me like they're talking more like they're from the deep south...

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today hes Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow hes Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that hes something else. These people change their identity all the time. A pictures worth a thousand words."

I almost want to install KaZaA Lite on my computer just to hurt them a bit!

Nah, KaZaA is poison. Big old target on it. One word: USENET. You can download Metallica's new album for the sole purpose of deleting it when you're done!

But then I hear some idiot talk about doing this or that because he's a "poor student" who can afford a college education but will starve if they can't download their Limp Bizcuit

Hear hear!
_________________________
Dave

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#197720 - 09/01/2004 22:46 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3162
Loc: Portland, OR
Actually, it seems to me like they're talking more like they're from the deep south...

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said.
That doesn't make him sound like he's from the deep south at all. This article, and the person quoted, are in Los Angeles, which has a significant number of low-to-no income immigrants (some legal, some not) from Mexico. Drive around for a while, and it's true -- a large percentage of the people selling stuff on the roadside are Hispanic, and when you're dealing with illegal immigrants trying to earn what meagre living they can, they certainly do change their identity often. It's a common sight here to see a group of a dozen or more Hispanic folks outside places like Home Hardware, looking for temporary labour jobs. The guy's not being a bigot, just making an observation about reality.

Oh, and I think there's another thread around here that you ought to read, in which you'll find that your concept of the "deep south" is a misconception.

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#197721 - 09/01/2004 23:06 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: canuckInOR]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's not PC to pin something on a minority. It's always the white man!

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#197722 - 10/01/2004 00:51 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Preach the USENET brothah!

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#197723 - 10/01/2004 01:54 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: canuckInOR]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
in which you'll find that your concept of the "deep south" is a misconception

You're probably right. I only lived in Columbus, GA for about a year, and that seemed like an extremely tolerant place. And, true to what you say, many of the people I met there were very enthusiastic about making their own "observation(s) about reality."

Oh, no....wait.....

No, my bad. They were bigots.
_________________________
Dave

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#197724 - 10/01/2004 03:48 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
Anonymous
Unregistered


No, my bad. They were bigots.

Ah, and you aren't being one.

bigot (bgt) n. - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

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#197725 - 10/01/2004 04:26 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
please, lets not get into this again

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#197726 - 10/01/2004 06:37 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: RobotCaleb]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
pirates at sea

Bugger i thought it was something to do with me


From an internet cafe in somewhere

Next stop miami
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#197727 - 10/01/2004 14:36 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: RobotCaleb]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Truly, you are the voice of reason. My normal avoidance radar for anything overtly political caused me to miss that. After reading about halfway through, I'm glad I did. Miss it, that is.

To any of our friends here on the board from what is widely known as "the south", sorry if I offended. Wasn't my intent. My own experiences living in Columbus, Georgia were fairly unpleasant, as were most of the people I met there, but that isn't the entire "south". Hard to remember sometimes.

Thanks customsex!
_________________________
Dave

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#197728 - 10/01/2004 15:03 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
Anonymous
Unregistered


go suck a cock, Dave.

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#197729 - 10/01/2004 20:45 Re: pirates are all at sea [Re: webroach]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3162
Loc: Portland, OR
many of the people I met [in GA] were very enthusiastic about making their own "observation(s) about reality."
Aye, I have no doubt that bigots see their comments as just being "observations about reality." The difference with this particular quote, though, was that a) he was talking about demographics of people selling bootlegs in LA, and b) he was stating a reason it's difficult to keep the "pirates" from coming back when you catch one. There were no racial slurs that I saw, no suggestion that all Hispanics are pirates, no suggestion that only Hispanics are pirates, no suggestion that Hispanics shouldn't be allowed into the country, no suggestion that they should all be in prison, and, in fact, no attempt to cast a broad generalization about Hispanic people at all. It would be akin to me, after having lived in LA for two years, saying "the majority of gardeners in LA are Hispanic." After all, in those two years, I haven't seen a single non-Hispanic gardener, though I'm sure there are some out there. The only thing I can fault that guy with is lack of knowledge of common Hispanic sur-names, which hardly constitutes an example of bigotry.

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