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#19961 - 10/08/2004 16:03 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: Neutrino]
djc
enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 348
Loc: chicago
I'm going to attack this install the same way Neutrino did, so I'm shopping for a 4PDT relay. Digikey has the MY4-DC12(S) for $6.48, or the MY4N-D2-DC12(S)-ND for $28.65. The difference appears to be an LED indicator, and a diode on the sense input. I don't care about the LED, but should I care about the diode? Is this relay a good choice for this application?

Thanks for any advice from the electronically gifted.

--Dan.

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#19962 - 10/08/2004 16:28 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: djc]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
For $22 you can buy a crapload of LEDs, resistors and normal diodes...

The LED is just an on indicator - LED + resistor can just as easily be applied in parallell to the coil external to the relay. Also means you can place the LED exactly where you want it - if you want it all.

The internal diode to suppress inductive kickback (wired in reverse, so as to not conduct when relay is in normal operation) is nice to have - especially if you're driving the relay with an output that might be sensitive to overvoltages. The collapsing magnet field of the relay coil as the relay is turned off can produce hundreds of volts (but very little current...) that can hurt a sensitive output... But you can get a simple diode and add it externally yourself for a lot less than the price difference between those relays...
_________________________
/Michael

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#19963 - 10/08/2004 17:02 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: mtempsch]
djc
enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 348
Loc: chicago
Hi Michael,

Thanks for your advice! I am going to be driving the relay with the amp remote line from the empeg, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a little protection might just be a Good Thing. Unless, of couse, the empeg had such a diode fitted internally, but why take chances?

Thanks again,
--Dan.

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#19964 - 10/08/2004 17:21 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: djc]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Definately fit one, but I'd get the diode separately (a 1N4001 should do fine - or any other in the 1N400x series)... You could fit it in/by the [ISO] connector on the empeg, or on the relay itself...
_________________________
/Michael

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#19965 - 10/08/2004 18:22 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: mtempsch]
djc
enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 348
Loc: chicago
Excellent. Thank you very much.

--Dan.

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#19966 - 01/09/2004 19:37 Re: Order of panel removal 2004 prius [Re: Neutrino]
Neutrino
addict

Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Good luck on your install, mine is still working perfectly. I'm happy with it. The pictures are gone. I have looked all over for them but I seem to have lost them. This quote from earlier in the thread should help you.
Quote:
In order to remove the existing stereo the dash panels must be removed. They are all interlocking and must come off in a specific order. This is for an option 8 USA Prius. Use this guide at you own risk. I don't guarantee the accuracy of these instructions, sorry.


1. Remove the bottom center section. There is one plastic "screw" on the passenger side. This panel will now pop out.

2. Remove the vent assemblies from the right side of the center console and from the far left drivers side( on left side of steering wheel next to drivers door). These panel just snap off. It is the entire silver panel.

3. Bottom dash under steering wheel. There are two screws in the bottom of this that need to be removed. Then just snap it off. It's attached with wires and the hood release so it will just hang there.

4. Upper dash above steering wheel. This one just snaps off. It also is attached by the start button.

5. Vent left of center console. This one just snaps out. You can disconnect the park button so it can be removed.

6. Remove the two 10mm screws holding the touchscreen in and pull it out. It comes out by pulling it directly back. Disconnect the four cables going to it and put it in a safe place.

7. Center console piece below stereo. This just snaps out.

8. Remove the two lower and two upper 10mm bolts that hold the existing stereo in and yank it out. Disconnect the 3 cables going to it.

Thats it!



The one thing I can't stress enough is to take great care in the placement of the rio sled within the existing audio metal frame. This is essential in order for the rio to line up correctly with the opening and for it to be located at the proper depth. It was the hardest part of the install.

Charles
_________________________
No matter where you might be, there you are.

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#19967 - 06/10/2004 12:57 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: delphideveloper]
tms13
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2001
Posts: 1115
Loc: Lochcarron and Edinburgh
Chris Dragon has written a great little Prius dash disassembly guide, with pictures. It's not written for Empeg installs, but contains plenty of general install info.

His PDF file is linked from http://www.chrisdragon.com/prius/.
_________________________
Toby Speight
030103016 (80GB Mk2a, blue)
030102806 (0GB Mk2a, blue)

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#19968 - 07/10/2004 14:05 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: tms13]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Also, there is now at least one AUX-IN kit for the Prius, which should simplify the install prosess.

Peter
Miami, FL USA

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#19969 - 08/10/2004 08:41 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: petteri]
tms13
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2001
Posts: 1115
Loc: Lochcarron and Edinburgh
Quote:
Also, there is now at least one AUX-IN kit for the Prius, which should simplify the install process.

I must have missed that - where can I get it?

(still running through a cassette adapter...)
_________________________
Toby Speight
030103016 (80GB Mk2a, blue)
030102806 (0GB Mk2a, blue)

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#19970 - 08/10/2004 10:48 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: tms13]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Quote:

I must have missed that - where can I get it?

(still running through a cassette adapter...)


Take a look here:

http://www.ssiamerica.com/products/nap/

Also take a look at their "main" product!

Peter
Miami, FL USA

P.S. I also expect Costal Dave ( http://www.coastaletech.com ) to release his aux-in kit soon. Hopefully we are all done with the hurricanes down here, he was right in the bullseye for two of them.

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#19971 - 08/10/2004 11:31 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: petteri]
tms13
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2001
Posts: 1115
Loc: Lochcarron and Edinburgh
Quote:
Take a look here:

http://www.ssiamerica.com/products/nap/



I'm not sure that the CD changer is separable from the rest of the HU in a Prius (at least in the T4 model). And I think I'd like to hang on to it anyway; it may be useful in some circumstances.

Quote:
P.S. I also expect Costal Dave ( http://www.coastaletech.com ) to release his aux-in kit soon.


Yeah, I think I'll hang on and keep waiting for his kit, then. It looks like it will be the only one actually designed for Prius, at least for the near future.

Thanks for the link, anyway.
_________________________
Toby Speight
030103016 (80GB Mk2a, blue)
030102806 (0GB Mk2a, blue)

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#19972 - 02/12/2004 14:49 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: tms13]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Well,

I've decided I can't wait any longer for a kit from Coastal Dave. So tomorrow I'm off to the local installer to see what they can do. I'm printed out this thread to show them as well as a Prius dash disassembly guide. Any tips on what to tell them either about the EMPEG itself or the Prius install? I'll also be having them install a Sony stalk to control the unit.

Perhaps if Coastal Dave ever releases his kit, I'll drive up there (I'm only about 2 1/2 hrs away) and have him take a look and see if he can't get the steering wheel controls to work with the Empeg. Thanks for all the info thats already in this thread!!

Peter
Miami, FL USA

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#19973 - 03/12/2004 16:37 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: petteri]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Ok, no install after all for me. After taking a closer look at both the Prius and the Empeg, the installer decided they didn't want to do it after all. I brought a copy of this thread with me to "prove" that it could be done, but they were of the opinion that the outputs on the Empeg wouldn't work well with the factory amp. They also warned me that I would lose the navigation voice guidance while listening to the Empeg. I'm pretty sure that the NAV goes directly into the amp, but anyway nothings been touched. Now I really need Costal Dave to finish up that kit!!!

Peter
Miami, FL USA

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#19974 - 07/12/2004 22:42 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: petteri]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
I thought that the Nav didn't even go into the amp, but directly to the left front speaker. That's all just a vague recollection on my part, though.
_________________________
-Aaron

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#19975 - 07/12/2004 23:07 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: adavidw]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Quote:
I thought that the Nav didn't even go into the amp, but directly to the left front speaker. That's all just a vague recollection on my part, though.


Well thats where the "nav lady" speaks from. I don't know how she gets there though. I should investigate that over at the prius bbs....

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#19976 - 10/01/2005 20:30 Coastal Dave update [Re: petteri]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Hi,

For anyone following this thread, it appears that Coastal Dave is finishing up his AUX-IN kit. It also seems that he will offer an IPOD kit as well, allowing one to use an IPod via tha touchscreen. There are some videos of his gear in action here:

http://coastaletech.com/video_preview.htm

Peter
Miami, FL USA

I wonder if he could come up with an Empeg kit....

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#19977 - 03/02/2005 17:11 Re: Coastal Dave update [Re: petteri]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
To any odd soul to may be following this just about dead thread...

The CoastalEtech audio/video kit is now available for pre-order. This should allow for a "plug and play" solution for installing the Empeg in a Prius. As soon as the kit goes on sale, I'll be driving up to them to have it and the Empeg installed. (I hope this goes better than my last attempt! ) I'll try and take pictures of the grand occasion if they let me and will post the results here. They may be a month or more away from today(2/3/2005) though.

Peter

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#19978 - 03/02/2005 17:47 Re: Coastal Dave update [Re: petteri]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Good luck!
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#19979 - 12/08/2005 17:04 Re: Coastal Dave update [Re: petteri]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Well Coastal Dave has still not offered any sort of kit yet. There is a video of one up at his site for all the good that does.

But the Empeg is installed!!!

I finally found a shop here in South Florida who was willing to give it a shot. The combination of the Empeg and the Prius just scared off installers. Of course it took them two days to get it right, even with this thread and pages of info about the Prius and the Empeg printed out for them. After the first try I could no longer hear the factory radio, left and right channels were reversed, and best of all they didn't cut away the facia for the cubby so that the Empeg was locked into place! The next day I brought it back in and all was well.

I went out with my camera to take some pics, but as my luck would have it, dead batteries. I'll post pics tomorrow. I couldn't be at the shop for the install so I couldn't get picutres of that.

Now I'm happy! I was getting really tired of just listening to the Empeg on the desk...

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#19980 - 13/08/2005 13:47 Re: Coastal Dave update [Re: petteri]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3496
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Must....have....pictures....

Congratulations on getting it installed though!
_________________________
~ John

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#19981 - 13/08/2005 14:44 Pics! [Re: JBjorgen]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 432
Loc: Miami, FL USA
here are a couple:


and


I've posted a few large photos at my web site (really just a very sloppy photo album, but its my very first try at creating a site) here:

Prius album

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#19982 - 04/06/2006 16:42 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: Neutrino]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
I'm dragging this post back from the dead because I finally got a 2006 Prius and intend to stick my empeg in it. As I do, I'll try to document things a little bit for posterity just in case anyone else is looking to do this in the future. It'll also be a good reference for me to go back to and remember what I did.

I'm going to start by summarizing the current state of Prius/empeg connection options. All of the information in the previous replies is still pretty much valid, but there are some easier options now.

Coastaletech has still not come up with a good audio hookup option for this generation 2 Prius. He's showed some prototypes of a full AV interface as well as an iPod interface, but none of that's come to pass. Even if they were available, he's a sketchy source. The dude has zero business sense and thinks nothing of sitting on an order for a few months without any sort of communication until more parts become available.

There are several devices that'll hook up to the CD changer port on this gen 2 Prius and provide aux input. Some of them will allow an additional CD changer to be hooked up, some will replace any possible CD changer. Some of them also have full iPod integration or satellite radio hookup or things like that. Using one of these things would make the actual audio wiring much easier. I don't have any idea which one of these might work better than any other, but if I look into it more, I'll post findings here.

Additionally, the 2006 models (except package 1, aka the fleet/rental car package) have a 1/8" aux input jack in the center console. This jack also presumably has a switch that signals the stereo that something's plugged in. The stereo only makes the aux input available for selection if something's plugged in to the jack.

Some packages of the gen 2 Prius have Bluetooth phone integration. When making or receiving a call, the audio mutes, and the CD player actually pauses. I do not know if this is exposed in a mute sense line anywhere or just dealt with over the CAN bus, but I intend to find out and hopefully use it.

Mounting is still the same. The compartment under the stereo is still the best place to mount it, and I doubt anything physical has changed behind the dash that would make mounting more or less difficult. It's still going to require removal of the compartment and a little trimming, and will still look excellent when covered by the door. The only possible change is there might be a tiny bit more room behind the dash above the compartment, since the cassette player has been deleted from all configurations. However, I suspect the size of the factory radio's enclosure is still the same.

So, it appears I have a few options. Power and ground would be connected the same way for all of them. The possible hookup of a mute line would be the same for all of them. The volume would all be controlled by the car (so I could still use the steering wheel for that). The audio would just take different paths.

Option 1: Brute force the wires into the signal path like Neutrino did. Basically tap into the audio path going from the head unit to the amp and use a relay energized by the empeg's amp remote wire to switch the audio signal. To the best of my knowledge, this would still work. I have the JBL system, which I believe still has an external amp for 2006, although I've read differing things on the location of the amp (in dash vs. under the driver's seat). And, I'm assuming that electrically, the signal from the head unit to the amp is the same (although the wiring colors my be different). If one had the non-JBL system, it might not have an external amp, and if not, you'd have no path to tie into there. Pros: cheap, doesn't mess with or tie up any of the rest of the system. Cons: a bit of a complicated install. Plus, you can easily get into a situation where audio's coming from the empeg, but the CD transport is still spinning, losing your place when you come back to the CD. A possible solution to that would be to somehow tie the empeg amp remote wire to the hypothetical mute sense line in the car to pause the CD when the empeg switches on.

Option 2: Use some sort of auxiliary adapter to get the audio into the stereo. This lets me just pick the empeg as another source on the head unit. Pros: dead simple installation, as most of these things just take RCA style inputs right into them, and then plug into an empty port on the back of the head unit. Gives me all sorts of other possible options, like integration of satellite radio or ipod with the touch screen. Cons: They can be expensive; $200 or more for the fanciest. Also picking the right one can be hard. If I want iPod integration, which one does it best? Will they all handle the 4v outputs of the empeg? Are any of them more prone to ground loop noise than any others? Also, it's easy to switch sources away from the empeg and leave the empeg running, which would lose your place on the empeg when you come back to it. If there were such an aux-in device that somehow gave some electrical indication that the aux source was currently selected, I suppose you could tie that into the empeg mute line to start and stop it. I wonder if there's any wire that goes between the head unit and the aux-in box that's only powered when aux-in is selected? If so, that could tie into the empeg mute line and start and stop it. I don't know if that would keep me from tying in the hypothetical Bluetooth mute line, though.

Option 3: Use the existing aux-in signal path on the 2006. The cheapest and easiest way might be to just run a cable up to the center console and plug into the aux-in jack. Aesthetically, that's goofy, though. So, what I'd probably do here is just tap into the aux wires before they get into the head unit. I would need to then somehow trick the head unit into thinking there's something plugged into the jack. I'm guessing I'd accomplish that by tying the empeg amp remote wire to the wire coming from the switch part of the jack, or using the empeg remote wire to trip a relay closing the switch circuit or something. That way, whenever the empeg was on, the head unit would see aux as a valid source selection. I don't think I'd need a relay to switch the empeg audio in an out of the signal path, though. From what I'm guessing, this would be the equivalent of using a Y adapter to put two audio signals into the same input. Now, when I want to plug something into the existing aux-in jack, I can do a couple of things. I can just turn the empeg off and let only the other aux-in signal come through. Or, I can actually have the switch in the jack fire a relay that switches the empeg audio out of the path and even mute or cut power to the empeg. Or, I can wire the existing jack solely to the empeg's aux in, and use its switch to signal the empeg to go to aux in mode (although that would keep me from using the mute line for phone mute purposes). That would require the empeg in car to use the aux in, though. Pros of this option: Can be a pretty capable semi-automated installation with a lot of flexibility. Can be pretty easy if I don't go overboard. Cons: Could get ridiculously complicated very quickly. Could still change sources and lose your place on the empeg. There are existing ground loop problems when using the aux input with a device that's powered from the lighter port. That my portend the need for some sort of ground loop isolator in this kind of installation.

Other notes: Oh how I wish for a way to control the empeg from the Prius. I would be so happy just to have the track buttons on the steering wheel send forward and back commands to the Prius. I have very rudimentary electrical skills, and certainly no CAN hacking skills, so I can't make this happen, but how I wish someone could.
_________________________
-Aaron

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#19983 - 04/06/2006 18:35 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: adavidw]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
Quote:
Other notes: Oh how I wish for a way to control the empeg from the Prius. I would be so happy just to have the track buttons on the steering wheel send forward and back commands to the Prius. I have very rudimentary electrical skills, and certainly no CAN hacking skills, so I can't make this happen, but how I wish someone could.



I had ruled out the use of something like the SWI-X or the steering wheel to Sony stalk interface because I wanted to keep the steering wheel control of the existing audio system. Turns out PAC has something new called the SWI-V, which leaves the steering wheel connected to the existing audio system, but also gives you control over an additional device using IR. I'd prefer something hardwired, but this'll do. Only problem is that the Prius is not on the list of supported vehicles. Bummer.

So, my options seem to be to give up all factory control and install something like SWI-X or SWI-PS (which do support Prius) to control the empeg, or to just deal with it and use the empeg remote.
_________________________
-Aaron

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#19984 - 05/06/2006 12:26 Re: New Toyota Prius [Re: adavidw]
djc
enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 348
Loc: chicago
Aaron,

I went with your "Option 2", and bought the SLU from VAIS Technology last summer. It's expensive, but I got a $100 discount via priuschat group buy. It provides two aux inputs, which appear in the audio system as MD Changer 1 and MD Changer 2 (the Prius audio system has no built-in concept of an Aux input). My empeg output is connected to the Aux 1, and I use the "Disc" button on the stereo to select it. It all works perfectly, and the sound quality is excellent (given the limitations of the Prius JBL system).

As you point out, having the track forward/back buttons on the steering wheel mapped to the empeg, or intercepting the CANbus signals to mute the system during a bluetooth call would be nirvana. I looked into options for the steering wheel controls, but haven't found a product that will work just right. I'm not willing to give up the connection from the track buttons to the main head unit.

I took a bunch of pictures during my install that may be helpful to you, but the whole process was very straightfoward. You will need to carefully trim the dash panel, and it does look terrific behind the smoked flip door. I use a smoke lens, but wish I had a clear one for a little extra brightness in the daylight. I had to dremel off some metal pins in the DIN bracket that are used to hold the existing pocket in place, and I used Charles' suggestion of riveting the empeg cage into the bracket. Getting the alignment right is critical, so take your time. Signal wires are all easily available for power, headlight sense, etc.

If I can answer any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

--Dan.

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