Hi everyone,

This feels a bit stupid, but I just had the GREATEST time of my life flying a small helicopter today and I am so excited I wanted to tell someone. It was incredibly fun and extremely difficult.

It was my first lesson in the Robinson R22 helicopter. This is a very small piston-engined helicopter commonly used as a trainer.

We spent the first 40 minutes or so doing level flight, climbing, descending, and turns at altitude. The last 20 minutes we spent with me trying to hover. Apparently, it takes an average of 5 hours of cumulative hover practice for most people. I can see why! It is extremely difficult. I had read a lot about it, had flown computer simulators, and I am a mechanical engineer who knows a bit about controls (and over-controlling), so I knew beforehand that the biggest issue was over-controlling the system. It didn't matter... I *did* manage about a 10 second controlled hover, though. That may not seem like much, but it IS. After about 10 seconds, I started drifting some way (right, I think) and when I corrected the right drift I ended up flying backwards, then I corrected that and was flying right again and I ended up "chasing" it and was out of control in a few seconds.

By "out of control" I mean that I would have crashed and died if there hadn't been an instructor along. The thing is *so* twichy and unstable. I was told to rest my right forearm on my leg and control the cyclic (the stick that controls fore/aft, left/right -- the center stick) using only very small wrist movements. Flying the thing requires CONSTANT adjustment to the controls because the helicopter is inherently unstable.

Anyhow, sorry to blather. I could go on and on. It was so much fun. I can't wait to go up again!

I recommend it to anyone!

Jim

"There's no sensation to compare with this
Suspended animation a state of bliss
Can't keep my mind from the circling sky
Tongue-tied & twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I"

Good luck to you. My dream was to fly a Stearman but after 7.3 hours logged in a Cessna 152 I ran out of funds and also decided that I was too directionally challenged in the air to find anything.

Too cool. My fear of flying would have me tweaking out in no time, I think, but this sort of thing remains cool. My desire for control might override the fear, though. Who knows?

Anyway, too cool.

Excellent! I have an airport out my window aqt work and watch people practice on helis all the time. I'm jealous. I really must get off my ass and get at least fixed wing certified.

-Zeke

Anyhow, sorry to blather.

No apology necessary -- that's a great story! I looked into the cost of heli lessons several months ago, and ended up deciding they were a bit too expensive at the moment. It's great to hear some of the challenges...

I once asked a helicopter pilot over Chattannooga how hard it was to fly (Daft Question). In a lovely southern drawl, he said: "Well if y'all balance one ball on top of another, then balance on a plank on top of the two balls, that'll give you some idea!".
The only thing that looks harder to me is flying a model helicopter!

Kudos. I've always been intrigued by how a helicopter works.

I have the utmost respect for the RAF[**] pilots who can hold a helicopter for minutes at a time without it moving. The closest I've been was when some climbers I'd given a lift to overestimated their abilities and available time, and nightfall found them still only half-way up a slightly overhanging sea cliff at Gogarth (Holy Island, just of Anglesey, north Walas). The helicopter hovered a few feet above the cliff edge (where it would catch every slight updraught) whilst the winch man (is that the right term?) was lowered on a line to swing in under the overhang and lift the lads to safety. The whole process took 20 or 30 minutes, and it was all inch-perfect.

[**] presumably also of other organisations worldwide, but the RAF is the only one I have any experience of.

Nice story. Speaking of helicopters, I stumbled across this article yesterday about a New York Times photographer who likes to shoot from helicopters. The work is amazing, but just imagine trying to keep down your lunch.

"And you can rarely hover at those altitudes. You're usually looping around something, and when you're looking through a four to six hundred millimeter lens, it really gets you. I'm really good with heights. I never get sick. But when I shoot with those long lenses, I do generally want to hurl."

So I guess fiddeling with the buttons on my empeg while trying to fly a chopper would me out of the question?

So jealous. That's one of my lifetime goals... to learn to fly a helicopter. One of my girlfriend in high school's father was a model helicopter nut. I begged him to teach me.. but he just handed me a controller plugged up to a computer and said "once you can hover in the sim for 5 minutes, i'll consider teaching you." I gave up after 30 of the most frustrating minutes of my life. hahah. Then i got to watch Rob Vreeland fly his model out on the lake beds last year with precision. Afterwards he was visibly drained and sort of shakey. He said EVERY time he flys it it's so nerve racking that he doesn't even want to do it anymore. Which reminds me... he's selling it... really nice carbon fiber everything piece of kit. =]

anyhow.... congrats!

Hey you guys, thanks for all of the cool comments! I felt pretty silly making my post, but it was just the greatest thing I had ever done!

I would recommend this experience to anyone. You don't have to commit to an entire training program, and you can often get a special price on an introductory flight. I opted for a first lesson. I paid $215(US) for the "ship" and $40 for the instructor, plus about $25 in taxes and airport fees. That isn't cheap, but it was worth every penny! I got to fly for 95% of the hour and I got to spend about 20 minutes trying to hover, which was a blast (and really hard).

I can't stop thinking about it. I keep having dreams about flying the thing. All of that instability means that the machine is extremely responsive. Its like the ultimate 3 dimensional sports car. I've looked into the machine I flew, a Robinson R22, and it is 850 lbs (dry) and 190 hp. That is in the neighborhood of sportbike power to weight ratio. Not that its fast; it only goes about 100mph.

The thing that makes it fun is the same thing that makes it difficult -- the instability.

As far as "lifetime goals" are concerned (and this definitely was a lifetime goal for me!), under $300 is a pretty great deal. Why did it take me so long?!?!?!

Life is short!

Thanks again for all of the great comments.

Jim

Holy crap... it's really that cheap? I always figured you have to do a whole flight school and never even bothered to look. Hrmm.....

Heh, that's not much more expensive than a plain old helicopter ride.

Exactly! Go do it! I'm so happy I did!

As an ex-professional pilot with 4000+ hours, I welcome you to the world of aviation.

I only fly for fun nowadays, but I do miss the job sometimes.

Have fun!

Okay fellas. I just came across this insanity. I had no CLUE this was possible with a model helicopter. My brain hurts just thinking about it.

http://www.handymodels.co.uk/downloads/alan_vegasfunflydemo_2004.wmv

Oh. My. God.

Yeah, I saw that one. The interesting part is how young the kid doing the flying looks.

How does it hover upside down? Do the blades cant so that the air is pushed away from the frame of the copter? Do real helicopters do this?

Very cool vid. Thanks, Loren!

-Zeke

That's a display of some serious talent. As far as my googling can tell, that kid is about 17 and is already regarded as one of the masters.

Do real helicopters do this?

Not with people inside!

OK, OK. I know by "this" you meant changing the way the blades rotate, but couldn't you just see someone riding in a helicopter doing all that?

This is an archaic technology that's just crying out for modern control systems.. pretty amazing most heliocopters are still flown using such a primitive control system. It's like evolution just stopped dead once they got the first one off he ground.

I wonder what's blocking progress in this field? Feedback driven control loops would make flying a 'copter really really easy.

Cheers

Let me rephrase the question:

Are modern helicopters capable of inverted hovers?

-Zeke

There's a natural conservatism with technology that's so obviously safety-critical. Pilots just don't like the idea of fly-by-wire, no matter how safe you tell them it is. If something works well enough, they say, don't mess with it.

Of course, those same pilots then drive home in their ABS-equipped cars on cruise-control...

Yeah, but, you know, if your ABS fails, you don't fall from the sky.

Yeah, but, you know, if your ABS fails, you don't fall from the sky.

Yeah, but, you know, most cars are designed and built by reasonably competent engineers, rather than by defense contractors .

How does it hover upside down?

Okay, i'll preface this by saying i'm no expert in this area by any means. But the blades don't change rotation direction, they pivot around their own axis. The blades in a 'copter can tilt and each can rotate around it's Z axis. Imagine taking a ceiling fan, grabbing the end of the blade, and twisting it so the blade tilts in the opposite direction. That's what's happening with the RC helicopter. As for whether or not real helicopters are capable of inverted hover... I remember reading somewhere that the recently scraped Comanche was supposed to be capable of pretty impressive maneuvering such as inverted flight. I've seen helicopters do barrel rolls but as far as i'm aware there hasn't been any inverted flying helicopters. But, again, i don't know squat about helicopters.

Correct me if i'm wrong those in the know.

Yeah, but, you know, if your ABS fails, you don't fall from the sky.

In most cases planes crash because pilots fail. Totaly automated planes would probably be safer than ones provided with pilots.

Don't get the pilots started!

For that matter, don't get ME started.