I took a 2k mile road trip this past week (DC to Boston to Detroit to DC) and noticed that if I played my empeg for several hours at a time, I'd eventually get 'glitching': what sounded like records being 'scratched' at full volume (usually much louder than the music). The sound is somewhat painful. When I take out the empeg it's usually very warm, but I lean towards 'hot' instead of 'warm.' I let the unit cool for a while then play it again and it seems to work fine. On the same note, when it's cold, it seems to pop in and out of spitting out sound. When I first start my car, it sometimes turns on and off (at around 30 second intervals) for 3-4 minutes. I know the amp is on because I still hear the alternator whine.. I'm not really sure what to do about this.. Has anyone else had this problem before, or know what I can do about it?

Sounds like a wiring problem or a docking connector problem. Did you do the install yourself? Did you get one of the soldered sleds or the crimped sleds?

___________
Tony Fabris

No, I reckon this sounds like a temperature-sensitive RAM part that is affecting the playback. Timings of these chips can change at the limits of the chip's specified operating range. Unless you specify MIL-spec parts, you won't escape temperature sensitivity.

Empeg seems to have suffered from a bad batch of Siemens RAM parts. What you should do is get the thing to stutter at high temperature, then pull it and get it inside to AC power and conenct it to a terminal. Rut the RAM test from boot (the CTRL-T trick) and report the results to [email protected].

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Some of his description, though (static, crackling, alternator whine, dropouts) sounded like wiring trouble. Perhaps he has both problems?

___________
Tony Fabris

Take the empeg, plug it into a serial port and open up a hyperterminal session. Set the empeg to play everything on your player randomly and let it run for several hours. Then take a look at the output from the empeg. This will help confirm if it is a heat related problem. I had a problem with my board and the ram test never turned up anything wrong.

Sean

Empeg 12 gig green 080000078

Do I need to install anything special, like a developer kernel? I'm playing the mp3s right now, hopefully I'll be able to replicate this problem even though it's not quite the same environment (it should be able to bleed off heat quite easily out in the open). I'm going to try to mimick the car a bit by placing a large book on top of the unit.. I'll get back to you guys in a few hours. :)

Mine would replicate the problem fine, I didnt have to put a book on it to make it heat up. You don't need the developer kernel to run the memory test. I just played mp3s for a few hours.

Sean

Empeg 12 gig green 080000078

I played it all day yesterday in the office, no messages in hyperterminal, minor glitching.

Well, as an alternative, cover it (as you suggested), run it till it stutters, then power cycle it, CTRL-T it to try a RAM test instead. Maybe this will generate some output.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Are you sure that the files you have encoded don't have errors in them? Is there only glitches in certain files? If the player isn't rebooting itself, it may not be a hardware problem. Try to make a note of where the glitches occur and listen to those files again. Are the glitches in the same place?

Sean

Empeg 12 gig green 080000078

I have my empeg in a very tight installation and had the unit reboot and lock up several times while in this hot condition.
and let me tell you it gets too damn hot! I am very educated in electronics and if theres one thing I know it's HEAT KILLS ELECTRONIC Equip!!!
A curious question I kept asking myself, and now I must ask someone from empeg...... Why put a fan mount in the top cover and not put the fan??? not an impressive move on empegs part in my opinion. I am not interested in the heat specs empeg lists in the manual. If it's too hot to touch and hold your hand on (as mine was).... then it's too hot!!!
anyhow I aquired my own fan to fit the holes on the top of the unit and my troubles went away. I am thinking that empeg must do something about this at some point.
It's only gonna get hotter when you add your second drive.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Greetings!

Hm... I have two drives, and mine has never gotten too hot to touch. Could there be a hardware problem?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

The fan isn't fitted because it isn't needed - we've never had any heat related problems. I've never known a unit get too hot to touch, although they can get pretty warm in use (especially if mounted adjacent to a heater or heater hoses).

I am not interested in the heat specs empeg lists in the manual

Maybe you should be interested in them - we don't print them just for fun.

Rob

Bet you didn't read the mounting & ventilation requirements, either. So if you are an engineer, then why have you not bothered to install within spec? This makes any potential failure your own responsibility - I doubt the warranty would cover failure given an installation that does not comply with the basic mounting requirements.

I also have a tight installation, with two drives (and a compact amp in close proximity!) and the unit still has sufficient ventilation and does not get too hot at all. In fact it runs hotter on the bench on AC power - the unit is definitely cooler on withdrawal from the sled.

Have you mounted your unit over the heater? With no ventilation? Have you obstructed the airflow to the unit's ventilation holes?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

What did you hook the fan up to?

Empeg 12 gig green 080000078

I did read them.... But when you have a 1 1/2 DIN mounting hole and you need to mount the empeg and an EQ.... Heat builds up. I live in Florida- Don't use heaters here. And what I said was: the unit gets too hot to HOLD your hand on. And it does!! (before the fan installation of course) You also have an MK1 -(Not sure of the differences) anyhow you all get so defensive. Don't get me wrong I love the Empeg!!! see some of my earlyer posts. It just needs a fan in some installations.
It's better to err on the side of caution and add the fan than not. Cooler tempertures will also aid in the life of all componets affected. I connected the fan to the incomming accessory lead and ground.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Why do you need an additional EQ unit?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

The EQ in the Empeg is to bulky and difficult to administer.
I also wanted to be able to use one central EQ for all of the Video feeds and alternative aux inputs.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Here is the pic of the install.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

There are occasional spontaneous reboots as well. The glitching I'm pretty sure is not mp3 based because I've never heard the glitches on the mp3s on my computer, plus if I rewind and try to hear the glitch again, sometimes it's not there, sometimes it's different sounding, etc.. The other problem is the locking up issue - it's only happened a handful of times (maybe 3 or 4 on my 2000 mile trip) but it just hangs in the middle of a song or when I attempt to change songs. When I reboot the unit, it will take a very long time (~20 seconds?) on the 'Building Music Databases' section. Do I have a hardware problem here?

:(

Well, given that the ventilation aperture in the sled and the vent holes in the empeg are on the top, don't you think it's a bit silly to obstruct the convection path out of the head unit by sticking the EQ unit above it? Blimey, no wonder it overheats !

Can't you put the EQ under the empeg instead?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

[email protected]

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

When I reboot the unit, it will take a very long time (~20 seconds?) on the 'Building Music Databases' section.

This problem will go away if you hook up emplode and do a re-synch. It has something to do with your database in flash memory being corrupt and having to rebuild it from the hard drive each time you reboot instead of flash. Or something like that.

tanstaafl.


"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I'm not sure, but the spontaneous reboots sound like a hardware problem. Contact [email protected] and they will help you find out for sure.

Sean

Empeg 12 gig green 080000078

There is exactly 1 centimeter between the top of the empeg sled (the player also has some space from the top of the sled internally due to the spring detents) This space however is irrelevant because I should not have to treat this head unit any differently than any other car stereo out there. (I would not have these issues with a Kenwood, Sony Etc.)
Not to dismiss that the Empeg is a different animal that requires different specs, I realize it is different and therefore in "my opinion" requires more cooling. And I did look at the manual for installation instructions. The manual only references mounting angle, Orientation and measurements...... Nothing about any clearances for temperature considerations. a scary quote from the manual....

"The unit has a solid-state internal fuse. if this is tripped, disconnect the unit from the power supply and leave for a few minutes to allow the unit to reset, and check the unit works with the mains adaptor before trying it again in the car. If the solid state fuse trips, a faint "hot electrical" smell may be detected - this is Normal."

What??? Normal??? a few minutes to reset? or is it cool?
As I said before - this unit needs a fan installed from the factory, as "some" installations will prevent adequate ventilation as specified in the manual.
Specs in the manual state 55 deg. C (or 131 Deg F) for maximum operating temperature. A car in the sun on any 90 deg F day will get hotter than that inside before you even get in and turn the empeg on and generate even more heat regardless of ventilation. There is also no mention of MTBF (mean time between failure) in the manual. I am sure a cooler unit is a happier unit and will last longer.
Plus it no longer locks up, crashes or reboots.
Soooooo…. the empeg needs a fan.
Not hostile..... it is just my opinion.


12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

In a certain way I agree that your install needs more cooling than the usual ones because you live in a terribly hot city. That's the point here, I think. Most Empegs get sold in Europe, where such temperatures are not that usual. So, most Empegs will never go through such extreme conditions. But in Miami, or any other place where heat is sometimes overwhelming (I really don't like heat. I lived in Brasil for two years and had enough) some additional cooling may be mandatory.

This space however is irrelevant because I should not have to treat this head unit any differently than any other car stereo out there. (I would not have these issues with a Kenwood, Sony Etc.)

Actually the empeg runs a lot cooler than many other head units - and MUCH cooler than a head with an internal amp (if you were to use that amp). I've burned a finger really badly on a well known branded CD head with 4x45W outputs - but it wasn't faulty, it just got hot.

If the solid state fuse trips, a faint "hot electrical" smell may be detected - this is Normal." What??? Normal??? a few minutes to reset? or is it cool?

I don't think you quite understand what that means - this is a very cool feature of the player! If you manage to blow the fuse (e.g. by shorting something out, or other such problem) you don't have to replace anything - you just wait for it to reset. This kind of fuse works by getting very hot when it trips, hence the smell. Thats how ALL solid state fuses work - you wait a few minutes, they cool down, and reset.

To repeat myself, the player doesn't need a fan - we've never had a temperature related failure. Not one.

Plus it no longer locks up, crashes or reboots.

Your player was doing that and you didn't contact support?? They don't do that! We have hundreds of players in southern California, Florida and Arizona and no problems reported - obviously something was amiss with yours. It's a shame you chose to open it up, fit a fan and invalidate the warranty!

Rob

Most Empegs get sold in Europe, where such temperatures are not that usual

Most car players go to the US, and of those 35% go to California, 11% to Texas and a sizeable number to Florida, Nevada and other rather warm states.

Rob

You're missing the point.
This is a Standard Install into a 2000 Dodge durango with a Standard 1 1/2 Din install kit! While I was working on other things in the truck (parked) I would have the Empeg playing for listening pleasure. After about 3 to 4 hours it would lock up, crash or reboot with some unpleasant pops. I would pull the unit out to check and it was hotter than ANY OTHER CAR STEREO I HAVE EVER SEEN! I worked for Shakespearians Car stereo in Daytona Beach for 4 years as a car stereo repairman and never saw any other car stereo ever get this hot. Maybe a crap-o Targa or Sparkomatic 200watt wonder.

But for the empeg this is NOT BAD!!! I expect high temp from a 220Mhz Unix PC in a 2.2 x 7.3 x 6" package!! And obviously your design team had these discussions when you designed the top cover as the FAN mounting is there! Please explain why it’s there. Did you run it for a couple of days and decide, “Well it’s ok… scrap the fan. What was the QA (Quality assurance) process?? Dell computer has notebooks with 220Mhz processors that are in a physically in a bigger package without a VFD furnace for a display and they HAVE A FAN!! Plus they sit in your lap not a 150deg F car! (Why not Color LCD? … Much Cooler ;) ) Ok Ok Ok.. so you say it does not need one.
Can you tell me what temp does the internals get to with no ventilation? When designing something like this you must design for the worst case. I know this from experience and I have designed several RAID cabinets for the nStor.com company. In those cabinets we used cheetah drives spinning at 10,000 rpm and we had to have contingency plans in the cabinet for cooling at worst case CFM per Sq in. over the drives. All I want you to do is see my point. Let's say your right and my unit has some temperature tolerance problem here and the Empeg MKII does not need a fan..... Why not put one in anyhow? how much do they cost in bulk? $2.00? 3? For $1200 bucks it should have one just to be sure. Have you run thermals? Where are the numbers? I should not be chastised for trying to extend the life of my empeg. I would expect more of a comment like: That’s not a bad idea in some cases.

Just knowing that a closed car in the hot sun will get hotter than 55 deg. C (or 131 Deg F Empegs maximum operating temperature) Would justify the fan. I was planning on opening the cover at some point anyhow to add an additional hard drive (you’re prices are more than twice street value at 30gig) which I know will make this heat question worse. Do you have MTBF numbers??? at what temps??? post them please. I'll bet my life that a cooler Empeg lasts many more hours than a hot one.

I hope you see this conversation as an intellectual one and not a pissing contest.
Anyhow, I made my point and I’m pretending this bad thread never happened.
I’m getting off my soapbox and was only originally responding to a fellow customer who had thermal issues.
In closing, I do want to say (as I have in other threads) the Empeg player is AWESOME!
Thank your for having the beans to design develop and bring this monster to market.
I really do love it. :)


12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Edited by flashman on 05/11/00 06:46 AM.

You might be overreacting just a bit.

First of all, you're assuming that the Empeg has a mounting location for a fan. Those could be just ventilation holes, not specifically a fan mount. OK, I'll grant you, the holes kind of look like they were meant for a fan.

Secondly, Empeg did a lot of testing to confirm that the unit could operate in (within reason) harsh climates. They do have testing and quality control.

Finally, the kind of glitches you're describing make it sound like it might have been faulty unit (as Rob said), although temperature problems could definitely cause that kind of failure.

The photos of your 1/2-DIN EQ mounting looked really nifty, but I'm wondering if the EQ unit was putting off any heat of its own? Also, most dashboards leave some air space around the radio mounting area, and most car stereos count on this air space being present. The EQ may have been blocking the Empeg's ability to radiate its heat naturally.

___________
Tony Fabris