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#225530 - 01/07/2004 11:41 New Sony "iPod beater"
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK


According to the BBC it will have a 20Gb hard drive, but store 3000 more songs than an iPod

Shame it doesn't support any music formats apart from Sonys propriatory system and is therefore doomed to failure. Why do Sony insist on trying to get light to bend their way? The number of "standards" they have tried and failed to create is endless:

Betamax
Memorystick
Minidisk
etc

And the screen on that walkman looks nasty

30 hour battery life is impressive though, as is the shock-resistant drive
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Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...

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#225531 - 01/07/2004 12:42 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: furtive]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Quote:
Betamax

Of all the things on your list, Betamax is the only one that is better than the competition. Sony was also unaware JVC was developing VHS by the time Betamax was released. Betamax also had some third-party support. Even the good folks at Marantz made a Beta deck.
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#225532 - 01/07/2004 14:00 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: furtive]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Minidisc didn't really take off in the US but it was okay over here in Europe and huge in Japan.

As for memory cards, everybody seems to want to mess about with creating a new standard every so often. MMC -> SD had DRM as the main thing. xD just to be different etc...

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#225533 - 01/07/2004 14:07 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: robricc]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Minidisk

I'd respectfully disagree with Rob on this one. Minidiscs were far better than portable CD players. They didn't make it to the US in time, but until the iPod came out, there was nothing better for portable audio.

Memorystick on the other hand is exactly what Sony sucks for. Compact flash and Smart Media already existed, and memorystick had no advantages over either of them besides the royalties going to Sony.

Matthew

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#225534 - 01/07/2004 14:09 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: furtive]
daPyr0x
stranger

Registered: 14/03/2004
Posts: 43
Minidisc, like most of Sony's formats, met limited success. It still works, it's still sold, and it's still a "good" format. I don't like it, don't use it, never will; but some people do.

Memory Stick is just as successful as any other flash card; not hugely successful, but it definitely has a following, especially with some of the extra things that they've added with it like TV support and such.

Betamax, a failure? Not quite. It didn't take off in the consumer market the way it could've, and quite possibly should've, given it's superiority to VHS. Beta, however, still makes Sony *loads* of money because it is the broadcast standard. That's right, I'm willing to bet 90% of taped shows/movies that you watch on television are playing off of one form of Beta or another (They have 4, SP [the original], SX [a digital version of the original], DigiBeta [upgraded digital] and MPEG IMX [don't know much about that one]).

I don't think you can really call any of Sony's expenditures "failures"; but I would have to say Sony is *far* overzealous and they really expect far too much out of every new technology they put out.

Quote:
'd respectfully disagree with Rob on this one. Minidiscs were far better than portable CD players

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. Before MP3 players existed and it was between MD and CD, Mds were recording on a 1:1 basis - which meant for 80 minutes of audio it would take 80 minutes to record. It took them a while for the consumer (price wise) level to even compete with USB 1.1 transfer speeds of the first MP3 players; and quite honestly I don't think there's any comparison between an MD player of today and a Karma, though that's just me.

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#225535 - 01/07/2004 14:11 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: matthew_k]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Except for that whole proprietary compression algorithm thing.
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#225536 - 01/07/2004 14:12 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: matthew_k]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Quote:
Minidisc
Quote:
I'd respectfully disagree with Rob on this one.


I had a Minidisc recorder. It was good for bootlegging concerts. I even bought a couple pre-recorded albums from Europe. Having the track info appear on the display was cool. I still think it's dumb though (for the purpose of pre-recorded audio).
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#225537 - 01/07/2004 15:07 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: wfaulk]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Except for that whole proprietary compression algorithm thing.


pro·pri·e·tar·y adj. ... 3) Owned by a private individual or corporation under a trademark or patent: a proprietary drug.

Huh. Last time I checked Fraunhofer still owned the mp3 patents. So everybody here has bought (and paid the Fraunhofer tax on) an audio player using a proprietary compression algorithm.

Matthew

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#225538 - 01/07/2004 15:35 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: matthew_k]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
ATRAC
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#225539 - 01/07/2004 15:50 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: wfaulk]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
ATRAC

Oh I know. I'm just saying that the proprietary compression on minidiscs from before MP3 becoming a standard isn't an argument against their orginal superiority. Now, still expecting everyone to transcode their mp3s to ATRAC is a big heaping pile of bovine excrement. But back in the day, the benefits in size, lack of skipping, longer battery life and better players well outweighed the lossy compression for portable players.

Matthew

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#225540 - 02/07/2004 05:10 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: robricc]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
I'm with you Rob, I use my minidisc for bootlegging concerts (Of course last Friday (6/25/04) I was busted for the first time at a Collective Soul show. Gave them the disc, took the recorder to my car, and fortunately they let me back in). In fact recording concerts is the reason I bought it. For listening use though I only use it mountain biking or skiing. And thats only because I don't have a Karma yet.
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#225541 - 03/07/2004 01:03 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: furtive]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
You forgot Universal Media Discs, or UMD for short. Aka the Playstation Portable media that aparently is universal across all PSP machines...

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#225542 - 12/07/2004 19:49 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: tman]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
What was the digital cassete format that went head to head with the Minidisc and truely never got anywhere? I think it used standard tapes, or at least was backwards compatible with cassettes.

The main reason that Beta failed in the comsumer market was the lengths of the media were too short for most movies. I think, like the current memory sticks and ATRAC, Sony was just trying to keep studios happy?
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#225543 - 13/07/2004 05:44 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
What was the digital cassete format that went head to head with the Minidisc and truely never got anywhere?


There was DAT. It used mini cassette tapes, though.
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#225544 - 13/07/2004 07:36 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: matthew_k]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
None of you are old enough to remember the Sony hi-fi cassette, as sound is to video, so the hi fi cassette was to the Betamax - and
I was demonstrating the Sony surround sound format on reel - to - reel tapes by '68.

Two additional arguments to the thread
:
Philips (who have had their own failures(at least three other video formats)!) invented the compact cassette but Sony turned it into an acceptable format for widespread use.
Sony sit on both sides of the ripping/downloading argument, being both a record company and a hi-fi manufacturer: They must have some in-house politics!

What happened to the Telefunken cassette?: 2 ips and twice the width of tape, oh, well, up in heaven with the 8 track and I bet none of you remember its precursor, the King 4 - track!
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#225545 - 13/07/2004 07:53 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: Roger]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
There was DAT. It used mini cassette tapes, though.

I think he meant DCC. Even DAT got somewhere compared to where DCC got.

Peter

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#225546 - 13/07/2004 08:08 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: peter]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
DCC

I think that's digital command control now, the accepted digital format for model railways, where you can run 128 of your locomotives on the same track at the same time, as well as operate the points and signals.
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#225547 - 13/07/2004 15:19 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: furtive]
Half_Geek
member

Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK

Sony's "more songs than an iPod" claim seems to have sparked off an Apple/Sony tiff!!

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#225548 - 13/07/2004 17:11 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: Half_Geek]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
LOL. I thought that might happen - I can't believe that Sony's marketing would make such a blatent play. Anyway, 13000 tracks...bah. I think Paul's up to about 57000.
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#225549 - 13/07/2004 19:20 Re: New Sony "iPod beater" [Re: genixia]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
You rang???

Although I did have to clean up my player to make room for new stuff. But just wait until the 100GB drives are available!
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