..at www2.empeg.com/mark2.

This is rendered with textures and a more appropriate colour scheme. The final finish isn't fixed, and won't be until we've seen some production prototypes.

Unfortunately there seems to be a bug with the latest version of SolidWorks, which has caused some of the rounded edges to be rendered faceted - but as you can see from the SLA model, these will actually be smooth.

So.. comments?

Rob

Rob Shoots! He Scores!! The crowd goes WILD!!!

A winner IMHO.

Seconded... =)

Looks as good as I imagined it would... =)

Jazz
(List 112, S/N 00030, 4 gig blue)

Looks good to me!

Term

I stand corrected...I like it A LOT! I can't wait to get one. As a side note Rob, it's been about 2 weeks since I registered and I haven't recieved a number yet. I just want to make sure I get on the list! Thanks for making such a cool product.

Two words:

Suh-wheet.

How'd you get that wonderful motion-blurred pic of the display? That's the best representation of the display I've seen in a rendering. Anyone who wonders what the display looks like "in person" should refer to that picture.

You've said that the imprint text on the face might change. If it does, my first suggestion is to drop the word "Compressed". Not necessary, and besides, you're going to fix it so we can play .WAV files, right?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Thanks Rob! I'm all set. I wasn't aware that the top of the "e" in the original drawing was the top of the screen. I was confused.

But this looks great. Is that the final button color? I don't mean to say that you should change it, I just want to know. I really like the black face-plate bolts. It's better than the glaring silver.

Well anyway, I like it! Good job!

Looks MUCH nicer then the rinky dink picture used before:) it actually looks like cute now:)
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

I love it. If I were going to make one suggestion, it would be to drop the text ("compressed...audio") altogether, although leaving a small Empeg logo works just fine. In my mind, the text detract from the elegant simplicity, but that may just be me.

Corby
SN#320,6-Gig Blue

I've looked closely at the big rendering, and I have two small questions.

1) Do you intend for the shade and texture of black to be pretty close to the current shade and texture of the handle on the Mark 1? The handle on my Mark 1 exactly matches the texture and color of the car's bezel around the radio location. Even in direct sunlight under close inspection. From the rendering, that looks like what you're planning, I just wondered if it really was.

2) How tall is the "knob" going to be? Will it be raised enough to grab its sides like a real knob? Or is it like the alpha-dial on the old Roland Juno synthesizers, where it's flat and flush with the unit and you turn it by rubbing your finger along its face?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

i didn't dig it that much. I hope it looks better in person.

I guess i like the spartan appearance.

In particular. I am not super hot about the shape of the buttons to the left.

Empeg Kicks Ass
S/N 00203
http://www.iretro.com

The display is taken from a digital photo of a real empeg, which has been extremely well processed by JB Design and integrated into the rendering. I've done that job myself many times, and I've never got results as good as they've managed. Then again, that's what they do!

The wording was chosen by JB - I think it's very unlikely we'll use the word "compressed". Originally we were just going to go for "empeg car" in the empeg font, but I have to say that it looked a bit naff. Possibly something like "advanced digital audio" or "digital audio jukebox" might work.

Rob

I like "advanced digital audio" personally - jukebox sounds too much like bragging - i would rather have the empeg speak for itself..
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

Luddite.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

That probably isn't the final choice of button colour. When the moulds are finished we'll have to run a few different plastics through and see what looks good in reality.

Hugo found a fantastic silver colour which looks really nice on a head unit from another manufacturer, but metallic finished plastic is difficult to achieve and expensive in short runs so we're not sure if this is an option yet.

Rob

That was our original line of thought as well. The designers, however, are very emphatic that the text should be in there, and they have a great deal of experience in (tasteful) product design. They've experimented with several alternatives. We have a meeting with them soon to discuss such things, so they can make their case then.

Rob

Seconded. But I think the word "Jukebox" is being considered only because "digital audio" is used too generically these days. Someone reading the front panel would still mistake it for a plain old CD player based on that text.

Anyone have any better ideas?

- You can't say "Mp3" because it's going to play other formats.
- "Compressed" is mostly accurate, but I didn't like it.
- "Jukebox" is starting to grow on me, but I've never associated that term with the Empeg before.
- Rob said that just the "Empeg Car" logo by itself didn't look that great (although that would probably be my preference, especially if you could spring for two-color, with the word "Car" in blue).

How about "High capacity digital audio player"? Nah, too wordy for the front panel, and still not descriptive enough.

Damn, this is a tough one. I dunno, "Jukebox" is growing on me even more. What other term better describes its function?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

1) The Mark 2 will have more texture than the Mark 1 handle - I think the high res version of the rendering shows this up quite well. The anodising will also be of better quality (we by no means cut corners with the Mk.1 handle, but the company that anodised it didn't do a very good job).

2) In the words of Grandpa Simpson, a little from column A and a little from column B. You can grab it, just about, but it's designed to be spun around using the knobley bits. It works really well, and has a positive satisfying feel to it.

Rob

...knobley bits...

Is that a technical term?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Damn, we're going real time and I want to get to bed :-)

I never much liked the word "Jukebox" in association with the car player, but it is something that enables just about anyone to instantly understand what the product does. If anyone comes up with something we really like then we'll go with it, then again we may drop the wording altogether.

I don't think a two colour print would look too great - it would be very hard to match with all of the different colour panels it may be printed onto. In any case it wouldn't comply with our corporate style guide (yep, we actually have one! But it's kind of flexible) :-)

Rob

> Is that a technical term?

It is where I come from.

Rob

One of the things I like about the empeg is that it's a bit mysterious... Jukebox gives it away too much; so what if someone mistakes it for a regular cd-player? So much the better; they wouldn't mistake it when they heard techno followed by pop followed by hip-hop followed by 80's all within 15 minutes:)
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

OK, I take back my Fisher Price comment ... but I'm still not 100% on the wing shape. Would prefer something more 'conventional'.

J.

juke·box (jkbks) n.
A coin-operated phonograph, equipped with push buttons for the selection of records. From juke (qv)

... which leads us to ...

juke (jk) Southeastern U.S. n.
A roadside drinking establishment that offers inexpensive drinks, food, and music for dancing and often doubles as a brothel.

I can see where this is going!

How about playing on the random access viewpoint:

RAMS - random access music system
RADA - random access digital audio

J.

I like the look of the new player a lot, but I do have a couple of suggestions:

1. I don't really think the silkscreened text is necessary at all; the logo shows up on boot, and it seems to me that having that text there all the time will just be a distraction from the actual display...

2. I think black buttons would work very well; the stark contrast between the black faceplate and any light-colored buttons just feels jarring to my eyes...

One of the things I really like about my Mk. 1 is that, if you look in the car window, you can't tell there's anything in that spot of my dashboard unless you look really, really carefully (I've fooled myself into thinking the poor thing was stolen a few times because of this). I like that a lot, and I'm hoping the Mk. 2 blends in in similar fashion...

-Dan


-----
Daniel M. Zimmerman
Caltech Computer Science
[email protected]

OK, let me chip in my $0.02 worth on the wording, after reading all the other subthreads.

Here's what _I_ would do, and then (Rob, settle down), I'll explain why.

Digital Audio (Empeg Logo) Mark II

Now... why would I put in Mark II? Especially when that's not its official name?

I say, MAKE it the official name. Why? First off, it SOUNDS cool as hell. "Yeah, man, I bought one of those Mark II's from Empeg, they hella rock", or whatever punk kids are saying these days *G*...

Secondly, it signifies by its name that this is second-generation gear. There's a psychological advantage to something SOUNDING like it has a lot of testing behind it (even if there were only 500 or so Mark-I units sold) WE all know its had tons of testing -- we did it.. but to the average consumer, Empeg, the company, is an unknown. You're not Sony, or Kenwood, or Pioneer, or anyone they've heard of before. Signifying that "yeah, this is our second generation gear" adds a little psychological weight to the purchase decision.

Thirdly, it may encourage the owner to find out "What was the MarkI?", in which case, if they bought it just "to buy a car stereo" (because I think the target audience on this unit is closer to retail than the geeks like us who bought MkI's), then they may realize the OTHER things that go on behind the scenes, software development, add-ons, hacks people are doing, etc.... point being that if they investigate the MkI, they'll have "one more way" of learning about the other cool stuff people are doing with Empeg's, etc.

And lastly, it's a silent tip of the hat to all us MkI owners who bitched, praised, whined and preached about our MkI's, yielding many (if not most) of the suggestions that made the MkII what it is going to be.

That's my take on it, flame me for it if you don't like it. :)

D

I just want to say the new design kicks the llama's ass. You guys are forcing me to buy a new mark II.

Brian

I long to have a Mark II in my dash...

Oh, and I agree that "jukebox" sounds old-fashioned ... and old-fashioned is 180 degrees from the underlying point of the Empeg Car product.

-- Bleys



"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

I really like the word "advanced" -- it's synonymous with progressive, as in "forward-looking". (e.g. Advanced [Empeg Logo] Digital Audio)

"Mark II" is harder to position unless trademarked and used as such, but I think there's some merit to Dredd's analysis of the psychology surrounding that label.

-- Bleys



"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

I definitly like this idea, expecially the Mark II part. It was the first name that popped into mind when I made that post about it long ago. I hope at a minimum that the empeg logo appears somewhere on the front, as it should have the name of the company who labored so hard to create the thing somewhere visible to everyone, and not just the owner. After all, I can't see one other thing in my sight right now that dosen't proudly display it's company name. (Including "Microsoft" on my Datalink watch).

My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/

"Audiobase".

A database is a coherent collection of information. An audiobase is a coherent collection of music.

Beats jukebox anyway, IMHO.

Cheers
Jon

Rob,

Please keep any text on the Empeg it self simple and short; try to avoid the verbal generosity that's so typically English: you have a world-class product !

If you like 'jukebox', put in into the ads, on the web, the newsletter, operatoing instruction, on the box that wraps it, wherever. But I'd say don't put it on Empeg itself. I (for wahtever that's worth) associate 'jukebox' with Elvis or the 50's. Very old fashioned. It'll go stale on the owner (who wil have to read it every day) very quickly.

Also avoid words that are meaningless ('advanced', 'flexible'), or have meaning only to an incrowd (e.g. abbreviations. tanstaafl are you listening])

I'd vote for [Empeg Logo] Digital Audio Mark2, if you'd allow me any say.
Hard, simple decisions. Good Luck and Wisdom in your meeting with the marketing experts. Tell'm they did a great job.

Henno
# 00120 (6GB+18)

Hi empeg team,

In reply to:

---

This is rendered with textures and a more appropriate colour scheme. The final finish isn't fixed, and won't be until we've seen some production prototypes.

---

Well done guys, excellent job. Looks really professional and should fit the product well. I look forward to having one installed in my dash.

Regards,


_________________________________________
John, (S/No 0114, 20G).

I should point out that the target audience for the front panel text are visitors to car audio showrooms, who may see the product on display. It may or may not be switched on, and even if it's on it may not be showing anything on-screen that gives an instant clue as to it's nature.

Rob

I should point out that the target audience for the front panel text are visitors to car audio showrooms

In that case you need to steer well clear of the word 'Jukebox'. Joe Punter's experience of ICEs will generally be limited to head unit and changer in the boot. You say 'jukebox' and they'll think you mean 'changer', then not look any further - who wants to buy hi-fi from a company who doesn't even know the correct terminology?

If you want the unit to advertise itself without being turned on, then you need to use terminology which won't be confused with existing products.

How's about something like:
"[empeg logo] Digital Audio Decoder"
"[empeg logo] Digital Audio Storage System"
"[empeg logo] Digital Audio Management System"
"[empeg logo] Digital Audio Library"
"Digital Audio Storage [empeg logo] Decoder"

Where "Digital Audio" and "[empeg logo]" are optional/moveable.

Just my 2p, but I REALLY REALLY think you should avoid the word 'jukebox'.

Nick (who's up there somewhere around the 8000 mark and has got the cash ready to hand over at a moment's notice).

Aren't those datalink watches the coolest thing since sliced bread? I've had mine for a few years and I totally depend on it.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I like "advanced" as well, but the only problem with the word is that it's been overused (abused) in marketing lately. "Advanced Digital Audio" could mean a cheap Taiwanese CD player these days.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I like these. Good suggestions. Your reasoning is very sound.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Audiobase

Is that something Empeg could trademark? That would rock.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I'd have to say that the only acceptable writing on the unit would be the empeg logo alone. If I had all that text on the unit I swear I would scratch it off myself. Scratches would look better than that glaring white text. I wouldn't mind it somewhere else but I suppose the design sort of prohibits doing so.

How about "Advanced, Integrated, Solid State Digital Compressed Audio Microprocessor Controlled Playback Management Relational Database Unit" ?

Now that just rolls off the tongue.

How about 'Empeg Digital ICE'? (stylized empeg logo, of course)

I read the previous post advising against acronyms, but think about it. The standard display is blue, and blue is suggestive of ice -> cool; with the double meaning of 'In Car Entertainment'. Those 'in the know' would recognize it as an acronym, and those who aren't would (i presume) think something like 'cool'. The way the display glow diffuses reminds me of light shining through ice. It really doesn't really matter if it's red, green or blue, it still has the 'illuminated ice'-y look to it. That text line shows the manufacturer, and is vague enough to cover the mp3 (and future wav) capability. The 'Digital ICE' thing has something to work with as far as 'catchy' goes (maybe?). 'An ICEbox of cool tunage'.

Disclaimer: I am not a marketing 'droid.

How about "Advanced, Integrated, Solid State Digital Compressed Audio Microprocessor Controlled Playback Management Relational Database Unit" ?

Now that just rolls off the tongue.

And it's got a catchy acronym!

Corby
SN#320,6-Gig Blue

Mine lost it's usefulness beyond the time and stopwatch/timer program I have loaded when I got my Palm III. But I still love the watch for it's durability, since it's the one watch I have owned for a few years that still looks almost new (except the plastic button that cracked in half and fell off).

Too bad it dosen't use IR, it would be awesome to control the empeg with.

My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/

"Advanced, Integrated, Solid State Digital Compressed Audio Microprocessor Controlled Playback Management Relational Database Unit" as a catchy acronym

"Digital" and "Audio" should, of course, be optional/moveable.
"[empeg logo]" configurable (it'll buy you another lunch, Rob)

Henno
# 00120

You must have a newer one than mine. Mine doesn't have a stopwatch feature.

Mine was one of the very first ones that came out. The interesting thing is: the software that came with it won't run on Windows NT-- only 3.1 and 95/98. There are upgrades to the software that'll run on NT, but they are only for the newer version of the watch. When I run those newer software versions, they put a different kind of bar code on the screen and my watch won't pick them up.

So when I upgrade my home system to NT5, I'll have to buy a new version of the watch. That's an interesting monopoly. I'm beginning to think there's some merit to the DOJ's case.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Here's my own 2 cents... I currently have a Pioneer Premier head unit in my car. I *love* the fact that it says Premier very prominently, instead of Pioneer, which is somewhat hidden. It's made by Pioneer, but it's a completely separate line, so it's known as a Premier head unit, not a Pioneer. Anyhow, what I'm getting at is that EVERY company needs their name on the product, no matter how well-known they are. Anyone who's into car audio will generally ask what kind of head unit you have, especially if it catches their eye. This one will definitely catch someone's eye and it would be really good PR if they could just look at the unit and know who makes it. Then they can ask questions.

Now, Rob said that the lettering is primarily for being seen at a show. Well, if that's the case, then it should say MP3 on it. All the players out nowadays are known as MP3 Players. Everyone knows what that means. The difference is that this one goes in the car, which should be obvious. I realize that this doesn't do much for just how different this product is, compared to the other players it's being grouped with, but this is what Empeg *needs*. This unit must be compared with every other MP3 player on the market! It'll beat them, hands down! At some point, I would suggest moving away from the MP3 name, but for recognition, I think it's necessary. That will accomplish what Rob said the writing is trying to do... get it noticed.

As far as names go, I've got a few:

[Empeg] MP3 Car Player
[Empeg] MP3 Car
[Empeg] Mobile MP3 Player
[Empeg] Mobile MP3
[Empeg] Digital Audio Player
[Empeg] Digital Audio

My first choice would be simply [Empeg], but I know that doesn't do what Rob and company want it to. I'd also like to add that the lettering should be in a reflective, GOLD color. Pioneer's Premier units have Premier in reflective, gold lettering and it *really* stands out. Gold tends to be associated with the best of the best; the top of the line; world class; the ELITE (yet another Pioneer line, btw). I think this would put the icing on the cake and give the Empeg unit the "class" that it deserves.

George

#Empeg Logo# car audiobase ?

use the stylised logo from the web page (logotop.gif)

-- Murray
Empeg changed my life and it did happen overnight.

Too bad it dosen't use IR, it would be awesome to control the empeg with.

What about that Casio watch which had a built in IR LED for controlling televisions?

As I understand it, the Casio watch can only send IR, not receive, right?

The whole point of the Timex Data Link is for the watch to receive your phone numers and PIM information from the computer. In the case of the Data Link, it does it by using a tiny CCD to read bar codes displayed on the CRT by the software. It looks really cool. I agree that IR sounds like a more logical way of doing it, but when the data link came out, IR wasn't a standard thing on laptops, and it's still not a standard thing on desktops. The coolest part of the Data Link was that it needs no hardware connection to your computer in the form of a serial cable, IR adapter, or whatever. It just uses the existing screen.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Casio did a learning remote watch - I don't know if it's still available.

I've watched people cheat at Q-Zar with it so I'm sure it would have no difficulty controlling an empeg.

Rob

I forgot I actually own one of these. I'll have to dig it out sometime and rework the IR code to recognize it. That is if the watch still works.

My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/

target audience for the front panel text are visitors to car audio showrooms ( . . ) It may or may not be switched on

To avoid confusion Rob, my comments were on anything engraved in / printed on the Empeg front; to stay with the player during its entire life. Such a message should be simple, but meaningful because its the owner who has to live with it for years.

If you want to target to visitiors in showrooms and to audio/computer shows, you can use any different vehicles to get you message across: packaging, POS material, display material, flyers, what have you, as long as it temporary. Please keep Emma's face simple/beautiful.

Henno
# 00120

I'm beginning to think there's some merit to the DOJ's case.
Hey, Tony, you're not that slow

BTW: this has gone way off topic !

Henno
# 00120

I'd also like to add that the lettering should be in a reflective, GOLD color ( . . ) Gold tends to be associated with the best of the best; the top of the line; world class;
Not with me. I find it mostly presumptious, overdone: as if a thing doesn't have any quality on its own, and that lack of quality can be resolved by smacking some Rococo gold lettering on the face! We're talking product image here for a highly technical, innovative piece of audio engineering. This demands concise, simple messaging.

Well, George, if this say anything, it shows how the same thing can trigger very different responses

Look at the car design. I haven't seen any gold in a car interior for ages. Car manufacturers spent millions on research and come up with very practical, sober color schemes. Mostly black / metal; hardly any wording. Color, gold, words, phrases, specs: it's all kept for ads and owner manuals). Empeg should do the same. This is a year 2000 product!


Henno
# 00120

> You have the chance to define terms for a whole new product category

A number of mainstream manufacturers are working on MP3 heads now, albeit based around CD and memory card technology. The common buzzword is simply "MP3" with most manufacturers using meaningless model codes in line with their existing product range.

I daresay other mass storage head units will show up EVENTUALLY but it already seems likely that the blanket description will be "MP3 Jukebox" - even if the product is not restricted to MP3.

Our major business speciality is to design products for other people. Any manufacturer that was to buy technology from us certainly wouldn't want to use a brandname even remotely similar to our own - companies prefer their clients to think that their technology was designed in house.

> IMHO, your company is somewhat of a liability

We don't consider our company name to be a liability. It has become extremely widely known, and I feel that to change now would be a serious mistake. In any case, we only sell one major product with our own badge on it - everything else is branded by the OEM.

Anyway, the issue being discussed here is the ADDITIONAL text (if any) for the front panel of the player. The company is called "empeg" and the product is called "empeg car" - this is not going to change!

Rob

Errr. Tony, I was talking about using the Casio to control the empeg - why would I want to receive anything?

No offense, Henno, but I think you're a bit biased. ;-) You've stated elsewhere that you don't want ANY lettering on the unit. So, I think you may have already made up your mind and will not like anything that's mentioned. Just my opinion.

As far as the color of the lettering goes, though, it was just a suggestion. I like it on the unit I have. As you said, different responses for different people. But, Empeg needs to have something on their unit. All the other "big guys" (Sony, Pioneer, Alpine, etc.) have their names on the front of their product, along with meaningless model numbers, and even what the unit can do, such as "CD, player, tuner, radio, EQ, high power", etc., which are all overstated. Empeg must do the same or they won't gain the market acceptance and recognizability that their future competitors already have. Who *hasn't* heard of Sony or Pioneer or Alpine? No one who's into electronics. Who's heard of Empeg? US! They need to make a name for themselves and this is the only way to do it. Sony, Pioneer and Alpine are known the world over, but they STILL put their name on their products. Why? So people know who made that unit that caught their eye.

As I said, I'd love to only see the Empeg logo on the unit, but, for now, I think they need something in addition to that. I can just about guarantee that Sony's, Pioneer's, and Alpine's first units will say something besides the company name. They need something that fits into the mainstream, especially in the marketing arena, in this still emerging market for MP3 players. If they don't do this, the products will be mistaken as just being your run-of-the-mill CD player. That's not a good thing!

BTW, gold accents in a car or on a car make me vomit! The gold (thinking about it a little more now) is probably more of a copper. It's not a bright yellow gold color. It's closer to a tan or brownish tint and is pretty dark, so it doesn't slap you in the face every time you look at the unit. It's very subtle, but it stands out when you specifically look at it in the sunlight.


George

You've stated elsewhere that you don't want ANY lettering on the unit. So, I think you may have already made up your
mind and will not like anything that's mentioned. Just my opinion.

No, I've said that I like things simple but meaningful. There's no need to explicitly name a visual "VISUAL", or a no-info-screen "NO INFO". We don't put "page" in front of page numbers either, at east most of us don't. So if the Empeg folks believe they need to explain Empeg on the front panel, it should also be short and meaningful. The value should be in what it says, not the lettering, or the lenghth of the message. Not at all in a string of impotent buzzwords.

My 2p worth (slightly changed from my earlier contribution)
[Empeg Logo] Random Access Audio - Mark2

Empeg needs to have something on their unit. All the other "big guys" ( . . ) have their names on the front of their product, along with meaningless model numbers ( . . ). Empeg must do the same or they won't gain the market acceptance
I doubt if meaningless model numbers or re-stated obvious descriptions of what the until is supposed to do will increase sales. I do know that almost all of these ugly (?!) descriptions will be facing their owners (who don't need them) for years.

My points is that if there's a need to give a certain message to a prospect owner, it should not be on the face of the unit, but on temporary material supplied at POS, ads, etc. Messages on the unit itself should be functional, and beld in with the design wise. Long-winded descriptions are hardly ever functional, I believe.

In the end, the description is not going to make or break Empeg. Nor its capability to play MP3s. It'll be price and usability (=software). I bet that once Empeg got their production capacity geared up, a few reviews will establish the company, in much the same way as PC-Mag and a few other magazines established the Palm Pilot (which, BTW has nothing but the company logo on the front in plain, white lettering. No descriptions, whatsoever . And Palm are not even an e-commerce company - if Empeg can keep up their customer relations game, tapping the ideas and wishes of their customers, and opeing up aftermarkets, they can't go wrong. I'd wish they'd given a share in their company with every Mark1!!

Henno
# 00120

Well, if that's the case, then it should say MP3 on it.

---

The problem is, this isn't an MP3 player. It's an mp3/next compressed and mainstream technology player.. MP3's might be replaced in a year or two with something else, and the empeg is in a position to support the something else.
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

I'm going to stand by my suggestion of Empeg Car Audiobase

It is not format dependant.
If Empeg decides to bring out a new version, (not soon please guys!) they can add "2" on the end or something.
if Empeg decides to expand the product range, (DVD players, surround sound processors, God knows what else), they can change the "Audiobase" accordingly.

Remember it is not an MP3 play exclusively. They have not signed exclusive rights there, they just havn't implemented other format playback. Anyway, the market is getting swamped with catchwords of MP3 and Jukebox. PLEASE steer away from it!

A very important implementation of the serial port. It can be used for all manner of things. Given the correct adapter, it could control ANY CD changer, DVD player, etc. The music world went through an amazing revolution when MIDI first came out. No more proprietry operating control methods, and each component was on competing on its own terms.


this unit is capable of so much more than just audio playback, we have seen that with the discussion on open source (don't bring it up again here) and the posts to programming.

The name should be open enough to reflect what it is capable of.

-- Murray
Empeg changed my life and it did happen overnight.

Eeeek. Lotsa posts...

Tony -- after reading your assessment of the word "advanced", I agree that marketing has made it stale; I feel rather foolish having missed this observation, myself.

"Audiobase" is rather cool.

Other than those two comments, I'll put my faith in Empeg to do whatever they deem best for the appearance of the Mark II; I've yet to be disappointed with their physical expression(s) of tech, style, and class.

-- Bleys

"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

Henno,

You're right. My mistake. I just went back and re-read the message you wrote. I interpreted what you wrote to mean something different. Sorry about that. Now, I just realized that we're going back and forth with each other and we practically agree on the subject! :-) We both want it simple, hehe.

My only point was to bring to light the fact that all the other manufacturers put words on the face of their products. Are they meaningful? Not really, but they're still there. Sadly, I think Empeg needs to fall into the mainstream a little before they can start doing their own thing. (Not that they aren't doing their own thing already...)

BTW, Palm also puts their model number and 3com on the face of their pilots. ;-)

I'm sure Empeg will decide what they need to do in this department and whether we like it or not, we'll have to live with it. So is the way of buying someone else's product.


George

Hehe, yeah, they could slap an "Intel Inside" sticker on there.

[Empeg Logo] Random Access Audio - Mark2

I would stay away from something like that. most of the people I'd show it to wouldn't understand the "Random Access" part. Not everyone know what RAM even stands for, let alone what it is.

I think naming the product Mark II does have a nice ring to it. But I can't say for sure whether it has a nice ring to it for the general consumer audience, that would take a market study. I suspect that we as audience members of this forum would psychologically tune to the name Mark II, whether new buyers will also tune in to it is a different story. But yeah, it sounds very nice!

Calvin

Digital Audio Mark2. Well digital audio is "meaningless" according to your definition, and "Mark2" surely has meaning only to an incrowd. So doesn't your rational cancel out your own suggestion???

Calvin

Thumbs down on ICE. It certainly is a meaningless acryonym to 99% of people out there. Is it even a term in wide use in the United States? I never heard of it before. You associate ICE with frozen and cold. The ice age. Vanilla Ice. It is a synonymous with death ("that guy is on ice.."). You never want to associate ice with a car component, like "yeah my engine is frozen, iced, cold." My windshield is iced. My door locks are iced. My car stereo is ice..??

nah.

Calvin

Jukebox is precisely and exactly what the empeg is. It is certainly not a LP Vinyl Jukebox. It is not a CD Jukebox. It is not a CD Changer. It is not a CD player. If you truly wish to have a precise labeling of what the empeg is, it is a musical jukebox. You can not argue with that. You can argue that jukebox has other undesirable connotations, since it is a term more widely used decades ago, and is more often associated with another time. I don't believe that using the term jukebox will cause people to believe it is a backwards product. If anything, if empeg uses the word Jukebox the market may well associate all Jukeboxes with empeg the same way Sony has its grips on Walkman and Discman.

Obviously the technology is forward looking, but the marketing trends of the early 2000's seems to be to mine the past and spin a retro look on a very modern product. Look at the PT Cruiser gangster car and the Prowler hot rod as examples of this. Do people think of the gangster car and the hot rod as an outdated unsalable product, nope! I'd say take Jukebox, trademark it or copyright it if possible and run it with.
Calvin

Yep. People know what Random means, and people know what Access means, and people know what Audio means. Put them all together and you'll get a puzzled look from anyone who isn't associated with computers. Heck, even if you are associated with computers, what exactly is random about random access. isn't it an oxymoron? Hmm. Random access came about probably because some dork thought Random access is the opposite of serialized access. Ouch.

Calvin

Audiobase has a nice ring to it. A better meter and rhythm to it than Empeg car IMHO.

Calvin

Empeg should redo the face so it has neon tubing all around. Then they should utilize the empty space in the upper left corner and mold a coin slot there, and the passengers can help to pay for the cost of the empeg because it sure isn't cheap. Turning the car into a brothel with cheap drinks and food sounds like fun as well. I'm all for it.

Calvin

we're going back and forth with each other and we practically agree on the subject! :-) We both want it simple, hehe.
Yep, let's wait now to see what the Empeg folks make out of this discussion. Bet that the lettering won't be in gold ?

BTW, Palm also puts their model number and 3com on the face of their pilots. ;-)
They may be doing this now, but the one I have (my second one) has the model number on the back! Can't remember what the first one had, it's ages ago that I got it, but in those days they only had a single model. I doubt if it even had a model number. And it still made the company. Thinking about it, I get the impression that those meaningless model numbers only set in once a company goes professional, and product managers get appointed who get all excited about jargon. By that time the fun years will be over, I guess.

I'm sure Empeg will decide what they need to do in this department and ( . . ) we'll have to live with it.
Agree, but if they really mess up (I doubt it) we can -- for the time being -- stick to Mark1. It's a beauty in its simpleness. I haven't made my mind up yet, if I do want a Mark2. Really don't know.

Henno
# 00120

I can see it now... The Hoe Daddy AudioPimp 3000... =)

Jazz
(List 112, S/N 00030, 4 gig blue)

After reading through the 70-odd posts in this thread, a couple of things come to mind...

I remember when people got excited over things like hierarchical playlists, and parametric equalization, and adding a second hard drive... Now we're sitting here in great seriousness discussing the color of the paint to be used for the small printed text message on the bottom of the empeg screen! Are we (myself included) being a bit silly?

OK. Cool. I vote for non-colored, but incised into the screen. It might be possible to do it so that when the unit was off, you could read it, but when the screen was lit it would disappear. Or maybe it would work just the opposite. Might be interesting, probably not.

As for the wording, I think Muzza had it right with audiobase. But don't you think we're overlooking the most important thing that sets the empeg apart from any other audio system? The empeg is a computer and should tell it to the world!

So, how about [*logo*] empeg audiobase computer for the screen text?

tanstaafl.

(yes, henno, I'm listening... ;-)

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

This is a bit off-topic, but you know those "meaningless model numbers" you've been talking about?

I learned recently that many companies' model number acronyms are actually inside jokes. If you knew the actual meanings of some of them, you'd crack up.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Wooo Hoooo! This is the best idea I have seen on the whole thread! Sign me up!

Term

Now we're sitting here in great seriousness discussing the color of the paint ( . . ) for the ( . . ) text message on the bottom of the empeg screen!
Are we ( . . ) being a bit silly?

We are, possibly, but the Empeg folks aren't. To get this many (conflicting) opinions they'd need to hire at least two consultants at US$ 150 an hour. And they'd still have to select the one advise that makes sense themselves . This is beyond e-commerce; it's an example of a true e-company! Product development, testing, product range, customer relations, after-market, third-party add-ons, ordering, sales all under one www roof, and with great fun.

When the BBC find out about this, they'll book Hugo for an update on the hacker broadcast! The next thing will be a minister's post in Toni's cabinet.




Henno
# 00120

Darn straight, can the serial port be rigged up to control low rider air bags? We need to modify these visuals to make the car do the humpty along with the beat.

Calvin

Darn straight, can the serial port be rigged up to control low rider air bags? We need to modify these visuals to make the car do the humpty along with the beat.

---

hmm.. sadly I seem to remember this being one of the things almost promissed in an early newsletter w/ the optional modules box;)
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

RAMS - random access music system
RADA - random access digital audio

I like these; Random Access Digital Audio would be my favourite. A "Jukebox" seems to hokey - how often have you dialled in your preference and had it instantly available? - RADA sounds both professional and smooth, without trying to be too much.

But that's just me.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

hmm.. we need to close this thread already:) This thread
a) takes forever to load, especially on my cell modem
b) keeps advertising that bam like to delete his posts:)
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

I say it's about time to start a riot over this. if not for anything else, it would be fun to get a mob together to push over buses and cars.

Calvin

I say it's about time to start a riot over this. if not for anything else, it would be fun to get a mob together to push over buses and cars.

I don't own any pitchforks or other outdoor gardening/landscaping tools but I'm sure we can loot soome up if our group is big enough...

-- Bleys


"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

Just a couple of questions, not neccesarily suggestions.
1) So it's not possible to put the logo and any other words somewhere else than horribly close to the visuals?
2) If the words are on the screen, is it possible to do that guy's suggestion of finding a way to make the text invisible when the player is on?
3) Will the text be silk-screened?