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#231845 - 29/08/2004 19:07 Experiences with Auto EQ
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Well, it works for me! And - guess what - it turns out reasonable EQ presets, which genuinely sound better in my car. With a second set of ears listening, there was general agreement it makes the sound system sound much better. Worth persisting with, I'd say!

Here's the story:

- downloaded the Auto EQ test audio files to a new playlist, and made sure they were ordered by using ALT-drag to set them sequentially in correct playback order
- synched
- went to the car and plugged in the mic, making sure it clicked home properly against the face of the socket on the harness (IMPORTANT!)
- positioned the mic next to my head over my shoulder
- turned on the ignition, turned off the ventilation and other noisy bits
- plugged in Erik the Empeg and waited to boot
- went into HiJack, turned off Bass and Treble adjust
- turned off Auto Level Adjust
- dropped out of HiJack
- using the rotary, turned off beeps, cross fade, loudness, and centred the fader and balance
- in the main menu, chose Playback and turned off Repeat, Shuffle, etc.
- went to the playlist with the auto EQ test files and selected them for play with the arrow (Play All) then hit pause.
- went to the equaliser
- selected an unused equaliser preset (#16 in my case)
- selected locks to be independent
- selected channels to be 2 (Stereo) (IMPORTANT!)
- set the volume to -30 dB
- held our breaths, and....
- selected Auto EQ and away we went!!!! (Rumble Rumble Whirr Whirr Wheee Wheee Hisss Hisss)

It turned out (first try) a pretty boomy result (mic between the seats in the air at head height), then a much improved version (different preset, mic on driver's headrest). We then re-positioned it on the passenger's headrest (different preset again) and it went crazy - clicks, pops, howls, screams, all sorts of rubbish - but all on right channel. Left channel worked OK.

Tried it again, on the driver's side, and experimented with the volume a bit, and finally got a run of several similar settings that all improved the sound.

Observations:

- You need to set the volume at a reasonable level, no more than -15 dB. We tried 25 - 20 and got good results, but 15 seems to be the max before it flips it's gourd and starts playing "Apocalypse Now" soundtrack effects Any lower than about 35 didn't work (no adjustments made). As a general rule, the small VU meter in the top left is your friend - it tells the truth about what the unit can "hear". If the gain is too high, it goes bezerk - beware of this.

- You need to select the playlist with the test tracks in, or you get silence

- The tracks have to be ordered in emplode by sequence using ALT drag or there will be serious confusion

- I doubt that many of the microphone connectors on the sleds have ever been used. Mine seemed to prevent a clean entry of the mic plug: it finally clicked home after a hefty shove and the face of the plug finally butted up against the socket face. If the mic isn't connected, the empeg ain't listening - check the VU meter again to see if there is sound coming in.

- DON'T be tempted to choose the Microphone as an input Source from the main menu - it hangs up the player and looses any EQ settings you might have!

- it seems sensitive to mic positioning, but it IS sensitive and produces good results with a little experimentation. Positioning the mic near fabric seems to damp it's response and make it more stable.

- exit menus cleanly after you have done this and shut down the player properly or you will lose your shiney new EQ settings!

Have fun. I hope this little checklist helps you get it to work. If you have any questions, post here and I'll try it out on my own player and see if I can give you answers. I know Andy Marriot has had problems getting it to work, and if I read his story right, it sounds like he has got the gain high and maybe the mic positioned wrongly. Good luck!

PS. One thing I noticed is that it does tend to make rather alarming clicks and pops as it changes between left and right tests, and between tracks. Don't be too alarmed - it seems to work anyway. Andy, if you are getting clicks and silence for a few seconds in between, you might actually have the gain so low that the empeg can't hear itself. Check your volume level again anyway.


Edited by schofiel (29/08/2004 19:19)
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#231846 - 29/08/2004 19:44 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Thanks for such an in depth investigation of this Rob. When I get round to replacing the blown drivers in my car I might give this another go.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#231847 - 30/08/2004 00:26 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
I'll second the "Thank You" for the in-depth on the Auto-EQ. You should write the final "How To" on it.

Granted, I might find it more interesting if the Alpha that has Auto-EQ was available to those of us who, be it for commitment or financial reasons, couldn't go to Amersfoort.

But hey, life goes on.
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Dave

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#231848 - 30/08/2004 00:40 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Turn off the Left/Right time alignment too.

Thank you for posting this!
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Brad B.

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#231849 - 30/08/2004 01:18 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
I suspect that the clicks and pops may be due to the player not being muted when EQ changes are made.

Quote:
The equalizer gain must be changed in steps of maximum 1dB to prevent switching noise. If the change is equalizer shape is big, an additional audio muting is preferred to prevent clicking noise.

SAA7705H DSP User Manual, Section 9.1.6.4, Pg104.
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#231850 - 30/08/2004 01:51 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
WHAT MICROPHONE DID YOU USE?!!?!?!?!

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Tony Fabris

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#231851 - 30/08/2004 02:14 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
SonicSnoop
addict

Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
Is there a v2 that has the AutoEQ added to it? was that the 2.01 I saw something about? cant remember. If it does I would really like to try this out.
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-D Modifying and Tweaking is a journey, not a destination................................ MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock

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#231852 - 30/08/2004 02:15 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SonicSnoop]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
No. It is only in v3a8.
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#231853 - 30/08/2004 02:21 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: genixia]
SonicSnoop
addict

Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
That sux. I wonder, if you installed the v3a8 ran autoeq, could you take down the results and then load v2 and set the eq to that and it be the same? either way this is very interesting. I like the stability of v2 but am very tempted to persue trying v3.
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-D Modifying and Tweaking is a journey, not a destination................................ MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock

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#231854 - 30/08/2004 05:41 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SonicSnoop]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Yeah, but don't forget - this is my empeg listening to itself through my speakers and amp combination in my car. If I give you the preset it generated, and you entered it onto your empeg (with different car, speakers and amp) then it just isn't going to produce meaningful results.

You could install V3a8, run AEQ, and then go back to V2 while retaining your new EQ setting
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#231855 - 30/08/2004 05:42 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: andym]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Have I missed this on the thread? When did this happen?
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#231856 - 30/08/2004 06:34 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
If I give you the preset it generated, and you entered it onto your empeg (with different car, speakers and amp) then it just isn't going to produce meaningful results.

I think he meant if he did it himself. When he said "you", I think he meant it in the generic sense. Replace "you" with "one" and I think that's what he meant.

So to answer his question: Yes, one could conceivably run AutoEQ on V3a8, and then downgrade to V 2.0 final, and use those EQ settings on the more stable non-beta version.

I'm pretty sure that the two software versions share the same EQ data storage area in the same file format, so one doesn't even need to hand-write settings. One just does it and it "keeps".
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Tony Fabris

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#231857 - 30/08/2004 10:01 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Tony, if I were to do the AutoEQ on a test player, could I transfer one file via FTP that would copy the EQ settings? I'm thinking of using my old player for EQ duty for my car and for a few of my friends. It would be nice to do a quick FTP transfer rather than writing the settings on paper.
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Brad B.

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#231858 - 30/08/2004 10:22 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Am I being daft here and completely missing the point? The presets produced by AEQ are unique to your car and audio setup and no-one else's, so what's the point? I think I must have lost the plot here somewhere.
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#231859 - 30/08/2004 10:33 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: tfabris]
SonicSnoop
addict

Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
Yeah that is exactly what i ment.
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-D Modifying and Tweaking is a journey, not a destination................................ MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock

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#231860 - 30/08/2004 10:35 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
The thought is to use a spare empeg with v3a8 loaded on it, preform the autoEQ and write the settings down. Then the empeg that is normally used in that same car would be adjusted to match those settings. This is handy if you do not want to worry about running alpha code while driving. Basically, you are finding the autoEQ tuning for that car, and then copying them to the empeg that will run in that environment.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#231861 - 30/08/2004 10:35 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
SonicSnoop
addict

Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
I think what he is refering to is setting up one empeg as an autoeq box, take it to cars run it and then once it has the settings take it in the house and transfer the eq settings file over to another empeg so the owner of that empeg doesnt have to install the v3. I could be wrong but thats what it sounded to me.
_________________________
-D Modifying and Tweaking is a journey, not a destination................................ MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock

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#231862 - 30/08/2004 10:51 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I would take "my" empeg and insert it into "their" car's sled and run the AutoEQ. Then I would copy those settings to "their" empeg. Rinse and repeat on next car.

We are either too chickenshit or don't have enough RAM to run alpha w. such a large database. The other empeg users in my family and my friends have never done any of their own software updates - I've done all their upgrades for them. This would just be easier.

ps - This censoring is hard core! It cuts everything before the offending word!


Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (30/08/2004 11:02)
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Brad B.

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#231863 - 30/08/2004 14:29 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Tony, if I were to do the AutoEQ on a test player, could I transfer one file via FTP that would copy the EQ settings?

Not directly, as it's not stored in a loose file. It's stored as raw binary data on the scratch partition.

I think it's possible that a carefully-typed shell command could create a file from that scratch data, and then that file could be transferred to the other player, then a corresponding command could write that data to the new player's scratch partition. Sounds like a lot of trouble, though, and it might be easier and faster just to either (a) write down the settings, or (b) upgrade and downgrade the user's player.

Or... (c) just do the EQ by ear... I still can't get the auto-EQ working right and sounding good. Still waiting to find the right microphone.
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Tony Fabris

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#231864 - 30/08/2004 15:10 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I just have no luck adjusting the EQ by hand, even I know the wanted values. The UI is so damned confusing to me! (my fault)
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Brad B.

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#231865 - 03/09/2004 16:03 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SonicSnoop]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Rob, thanks for posting that info! That's just the verification I needed to trust that I'm getting accurate results and not making it sound worse.

Quote:
if you installed the v3a8 ran autoeq, could you take down the results and then load v2 and set the eq to that and it be the same?

That's exactaly what I plan to do. Install V3a8 on my spare, run AutoEQ, then copy the settings down and input them by hand into my main player.

And to second Tony's question, what mic did you use? And is it available in the US (since Farnell doesn't seem to ship to the US)? And does it require assembly (because I have no soldering iron)?

And lastly, I *really* wonder if AutoEQ could be used at home to configure the home setup!! Ooh, I can't wait to try. Just ... need ... the mic!
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#231866 - 04/09/2004 01:37 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: FireFox31]
SonicSnoop
addict

Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
yea im very interested in what mic to use that i can get in the states also.
_________________________
-D Modifying and Tweaking is a journey, not a destination................................ MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock

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#231867 - 08/09/2004 08:11 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: SonicSnoop]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
I didn't realise that this issue with getting the mic would be such a big deal. What sort of interest would there be if I could buy and make up a mic assembly with cable and plug? It would be entirely dependent on interest and you'd proably have to pay either by bank transfer or paypal. No idea what it would cost, but it would be materials and postage.


Edited by schofiel (08/09/2004 08:12)
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#231868 - 08/09/2004 09:45 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I know a number of us would be interested... Having the alpha (or a beta) with this feature more accessable to the userbase would help.
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Brad B.

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#231869 - 08/09/2004 09:45 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
I'd certainly be interested in a prebuilt one (of course dependent on price). I can't see them being that expensive though.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#231870 - 08/09/2004 10:02 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: Shonky]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Let's hope Maplin don't pull a fast one and drop the item. It's happened before, very annoying.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#231871 - 08/09/2004 10:43 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
I think the assembled mic + cable + plug + postage could sell for EU15 or so, all inclusive -- a great convenience (and a standard mic) for all of us, and the price might just recover all of your costs (barely).

Do others agree?

(I already have one)

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#231872 - 08/09/2004 10:56 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: mlord]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
So which is the standard mic? Mark are you using the Maplin QY62S microphone or an "equivalent"?

According to this post, that's what was used for development.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#231873 - 08/09/2004 11:15 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: Shonky]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
I have one of the Malpin mics here, which any one is welcome to borrow when in the country -- we can trade it back and forth by padded post envelopes. But if you're not in Canada, then nogo -- our customs folks will intercept it and start charging ridiculous fees.

Cheers

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#231874 - 08/09/2004 13:35 Re: Experiences with Auto EQ [Re: schofiel]
oliver
addict

Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
I'd need 3-5 mics, for my car, plus a couple friends. I'd rather get the empeg approved mic, this way we wouldn't need to do any config for the exact mic.
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