#23651 - 11/12/2000 17:32
Ethernet Problems
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enthusiast
Registered: 30/09/1999
Posts: 252
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I am having Ethernet setup problems. Maybe someone can help me.
I have a small three computer home network. 10/100 hub autosensing hub. I can ping the empeg with the IP address I gave it(169.254.1.57). But Emplode won't find it. I have tried everything I can think of and everything I have found on this board. What other things can I do?
Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue
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#23652 - 11/12/2000 17:38
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: 94cobra]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I can ping the empeg with the IP address I gave it(169.254.1.57). But Emplode won't find it.Is that a public internet number or is it private to your local LAN? Is it on the same subnet as all the other machines on your local LAN? (i.e., your other machines are 169.254.1.XXX)? If so, is your subnet mask set to 255.255.255.0? Does that IP address conflict with another IP address on the network? In other words, if you unplug the Empeg, can you till ping 169.254.1.57 and get a reply from somebody? Did you really assign the IP address to the Empeg itself, or did you just tell Emplode to look for it at that location (isn't there such a setting in Emplode)? ___________
Tony Fabris
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#23653 - 11/12/2000 21:23
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 30/09/1999
Posts: 252
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To try to answer those questions.
My main computer is 169.254.1.56 on it's network card. I don't know where that comes from. The other two computers are 192.168.x.x numbers. They are all the same subnet 255.255.0.0.
After reading some posts in the BBS I gave it a number similar to my computer I am trying to connect with. If I unplug the Empeg I get request timed out.
I hope that helps ya. I know trying to diagnose problems over the line is hard.
Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue
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#23654 - 12/12/2000 02:31
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: 94cobra]
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addict
Registered: 14/08/2000
Posts: 468
Loc: Penarth, UK
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Main computer looks like an ISP assigned address. The 192.xx address look like assigned by a Windows 2000 dhcp server, so you might get away with setting the Empeg to DHCP, but providing it with a fixed address in the 192.168.0.x range should work. I take it you have enable Ethernet in the Emplode options ?
- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341
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Rod, UK
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#23655 - 12/12/2000 03:45
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: mardibloke]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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169.254.x.x is a UPnP-assigned address. It's used when the computer is configured for DHCP, but can't find a DHCP server. Possible solutions: - Configure everything with static IP on the 192.168.x.y network. - Get a DHCP server. You might need a Linux box for this, but it's relatively painless if you've got any Linux experience, and a good learning experience if you don't  . Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
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-- roger
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#23656 - 12/12/2000 05:30
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: 94cobra]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
I remember reading somewhere on this board that the empeg and the machine running emplode must be on the same subnet. That is probably the first thing you need to do. Also, the empeg only has a 10Mb network card. Your autosense hub might be setting 100Mb for your other devices. I don't know if this could cause a problem with emplode (you have basic ping connectivity), but it might be another thing to think about.
Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#23657 - 12/12/2000 06:11
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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If you can get ping to work, try setting the empeg's IP address in the static IP box in the discovery options.
Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
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-- roger
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#23658 - 12/12/2000 15:50
IP mask problems
[Re: pgrzelak]
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member
Registered: 11/09/2000
Posts: 143
Loc: Jylland, Denmark
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Hi,
Just an (unrelated) additional question to this:
I just discovered the following strangeness this evening ...
Main computer is 10.45.99.99 / mask 255.0.0.0 (static)
Empeg is DHCP-assigned 10.45.99.101 / mask 255.255.255.0
The main computer is of course configured wrongly, as the network mask should be 255.255.255.0 (clumsy mistake by me), and they should match across all units on the same subnet. But ...
But technically it should still work fine for Emplode to find the Empeg-Car. But no, first after changing the computers netmask to 255.255.255.0 everything works.
How come??
Lars
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Lars
MkII 40gig 090000598
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#23659 - 12/12/2000 16:03
Re: IP mask problems
[Re: Wire]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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But technically it should still work fine for Emplode to find the Empeg-Car. But no, first after changing the computers netmask to 255.255.255.0 everything works.Since the communication between devices on a network is two-way, the netmask has to be set correctly on both devices. Sounds to me like everything is behaving exactly as expected. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#23660 - 12/12/2000 17:57
Update.
[Re: pgrzelak]
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enthusiast
Registered: 30/09/1999
Posts: 252
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Ok. here is the scoop. My main computer did not have a standard IP like the rest(192.168.x.x) It was 169.254.x.x. How it was working will all my stuff, who knows! I made sure all the machines had static IP's. Everything still works as it did and now it sees the Empeg on the ethernet. First problem solved!
Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue
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#23661 - 13/12/2000 02:17
Re: IP mask problems
[Re: Wire]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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emplode's broadcast requests are sent to the local network broadcast (10.255.255.255 on your misconfigured computer). They're either not being routed properly, or the empeg is ignoring them because this address is quite clearly not in the 10.45.99.x network.
(We can't use 255.255.255.255 because it breaks on multi-homed boxes)
Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
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-- roger
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#23662 - 13/12/2000 14:01
Re: Update.
[Re: 94cobra]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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That's the automatic IP addressing (APIPA) new in windows 2000.
Basically your machine is set to use DHCP, but it can't communicate with the DHCP server, so it autodefaults the IP address to 169.254.x.y. (where x and y are random).
Check the TCP/IP settings of the PC.
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23663 - 13/12/2000 14:02
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Er, you *can* do DHCP on Windows too you know. I think that you might even be able to do it on win2k professional, but I'm not sure.
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23664 - 14/12/2000 04:01
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: phaigh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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I think you need to use ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) to fool Win2K Professional into running a DHCP server. Otherwise you need Win2K Server. Unless someone other than Microsoft does a (free) DHCP server for Win2K.
Otherwise, just use static IP.
Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
_________________________
-- roger
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#23665 - 14/12/2000 11:00
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Acually ICS includes some of the Win2k NAT software stuff, which can do automatic address assignments - it's not quite the same as DHCP, but close enough. To be honest, Roger's right, on a small home network you are mich better off going to static IP's. I found only one free DHCP server for windows on the internet: http://home.t-online.de/home/hanewin/dhcp-e.htmI think that WinGate also includes a DHCP server. Cheers, Paul. Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120 (mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254 (mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23666 - 14/12/2000 20:30
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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A note for any of you who may have W2k server and are thinking of fiddling with ICS/NAT on it: just remember that if you authorize ICS on a machine that's a DHCP server, it will forget that it's a DHCP server. Go figure...
-Zeke
just say you weren't paying much attention...
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WWFSMD?
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#23667 - 15/12/2000 02:46
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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ICS also changes the IP addresses of you LAN adapters, without telling you, which is very frustrating, unless you happen to use the 192.168 range.
Oh, and I don't think that you can update them either.....
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23668 - 15/12/2000 02:51
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: phaigh]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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You can assign a second IP-address to the interface...
BTW, does anybody know how to enable forwarding/routing on win2k?
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#23669 - 15/12/2000 03:07
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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On Win2k server, you need to enable RRAS (Routing and Remote Access).
You might need to install via the 'Add/Remove' panel before it turns up.
Then highlight the server and right-click - select configure routing and ras - there's a wizard - select 'Network Router' and answer the questions!
I've got no idea how to do this on professional - I guess you need to use ICS?
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23670 - 15/12/2000 03:33
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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addict
Registered: 14/08/2000
Posts: 468
Loc: Penarth, UK
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1) Create a dial up connection on Win2k
2) "Tick" the box that says enable sharing of connection
Presto, you are running a DHCP server and also routing between your network adapter and dial up adapter.
- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341
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Rod, UK
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#23671 - 15/12/2000 05:22
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: mardibloke]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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OK, but as said before, my IP-adresses will abruptly change and routing only works one-way...
I installed a second ethernet card in my win2k box, one for my home network and one that's connected to my empeg through cross-wired UTP-cable. I just want some simple option like in NT4:
In the network-card properties page, there is a tab called routing where you can tick "enable ip-forwarding"
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#23672 - 15/12/2000 07:49
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Frank, if you are on win2k server, please see my other post. Otherwise, can you use static IP routing to get the two interfaces to talk to one another? Do you have the option for Routing and Remote on Professional? I beleive that MS's opinion on the matter is that network routers should be using Win2k Server. If on a small network, then you should use ICS. I don't personally like the policy, but that's how it appears. Can you put the empeg on the home network hub , with a static IP? Why go for a seperate network card with cross-over cable? Cheers, Paul. Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120 (mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254 (mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357 Edited by phaigh on 15/12/00 02:53 PM.
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Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#23673 - 15/12/2000 08:27
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: phaigh]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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I'm using professional, so I am going to try to install "Routing and Remote Access".
>> Can you put the empeg on the home network hub , with a static IP? Why go for a seperate network card with cross-over cable?
I have got some old hardware in the attic, so I use a coaxial network and a 3com linkbuilder FMS coaxial repeater which has one aui port, where a single UTP-cable is connected and lead to the living room where my win2k machine is. I had the empeg connected before through a sun-workstation with two NIC's , but I replaced my linux PC-based firewall with another sun, which required me to rip one NIC out of the other sun. I also didn't want to run up and down to the attic for connecting the empeg. I know the easiest thing to do is get a UTP-hub to connect to the coax-hub, but I had some PCI NIC's lying around and I knew about the forwarding option from NT4.
>> I beleive that MS's opinion on the matter is that network routers should be using Win2k Server. If on a small network, then you should use ICS.
The same issue goes for NT4 though; forwarding is only possible on NT-workstation on ethernet-cards, you cannot enable ip-forwarding when using a RAS device. After contact with microsoft-support, they suggested to install NT-server. After some time we discovered it were some registry-entries which had to be modified to get it running on WS too...
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#23674 - 15/12/2000 09:11
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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here is a picture of my network... Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#23675 - 15/12/2000 09:14
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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PDP11 P/OS? Wow! That brings back nightmares!!! My college was one of the first schools to require that all students buy computers. That was the one. The "Pro 350". Flashbacks...
Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#23676 - 15/12/2000 17:06
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: pgrzelak]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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Well, it's one of the later models; when I've got time I'm gonna try to get unix v5,6 or 7 running on the thing. It's mainly switched off ( I only know a handfull of P/OS commands). It's just an interesting piece of hardware and my former superiors were going to destroy it...
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#23677 - 16/12/2000 05:03
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: pgrzelak]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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In reply to:
PDP11 P/OS? Wow! That brings back nightmares!!! My college was one of the first schools to require that all students buy computers. That was the one. The "Pro 350". Flashbacks...
Yeah, RSX-11M+ running on PDP-11/23 chip, with bus more heavily multiplexed than Q-bus, two 400kB floppies on the same spindle (media had to be purchased preformatted if you didn't have access to formatting utility on 'regular' PDP) and optional 10M full-hight 5" disk drive only marginally faster... I remember that building a ten-line FORTRAN program took several minutes (the beast only ran 'regular' version of linker - task builder, not the fast one - and that was a monster of a piece of software, I'll tell you!). In my memory appearance of Professional series is linked with the beginnng of DEC's fall (and coffin was all but closed when they started changing Unix strategy twice a year or so...). R.I.P. (Compaq Alphas notwithstanding).
BTW, have you noticed the original LaserJet, granddaddy of all desktop laser printers!? This guy really has nice collection in that attic of his!
Cheers!
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#23678 - 16/12/2000 05:15
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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In reply to:
Well, it's one of the later models; when I've got time I'm gonna try to get unix v5,6 or 7 running on the thing. It's mainly switched off ( I only know a handfull of P/OS commands). It's just an interesting piece of hardware and my former superiors were going to destroy it...
So, you don't have that famous 'orange wall', as meter upon meter of DEC documentation was often referred to? (Actually, I think that Pro350 came with mere 8 or 9 thick 3-ring binders, and they were not even orange, but grayish-brown :-)
BTW, Ken Olsen (ex-CEO and, I think, co-founder of DEC) once commented on that orange wall of VAX/VMS docummentation and comapred it to 'this little booklet that describes this toy OS, UNIX'. I think this attitude is one of main reasons there is no such thing as Digital Equipment Corporation any more.
BTW, you surely have a lot of nice toys! I am thinking of rescuing a couple of old SUNs myself and use them as more or less single-purpose Linux boxes at home (router, web and mail server...)
Cheers!
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#23679 - 18/12/2000 08:07
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: fvgestel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Mmm, I used to have an 11/23+ with 512k/30Mb and Ultrix on it, plus one DHV11 (4 port serial with FIFOs)... at the moment I've got an 11/750 with 2M/140M but it's rusting in a garage :(
Hugo
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#23680 - 23/12/2000 22:32
Re: IP mask problems
[Re: Wire]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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10.x.x.x is considered a private class A network.
That means the netmask should be 255.0.0.0
Sorry if someone else noticed this already.
--
glenn, sorry, I was just reading the network HOWTOS today.
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Glenn
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#23681 - 26/12/2000 00:34
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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In reply to:
I think this attitude is one of main reasons there is no such thing as Digital Equipment Corporation any more.
I work at one of the old DEC facilities now that it's Compaq, and there are quite a few old Digital people around, and the additude has stayed. Like them calling all the Proliant servers "PC's", including some 8 way boxes.
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#23682 - 26/12/2000 03:21
Re: Ethernet Problems
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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In reply to:
I work at one of the old DEC facilities now that it's Compaq, and there are quite a few old Digital people around, and the additude has stayed. Like them calling all the Proliant servers "PC's", including some 8 way boxes.
Just to remember that those were revolutionaries of 40 years ago, those who cracked IBM absolute dominance and notion that only kind of computer is mainframe in glass room attended by misterious people in white coats... Sad.
And boy, were those PDPs robust: misswired protective ground on wall socket where a terminal was plugged (it was live) once caused a serial board on PDP-11/34A I worked with to literally catch fire. I hit power off, yanked processor cage open, and used some rag to extinquish the fire (housing of TTL-to-RS-232 level conveter was burning). Needless to say, apart from affected board, the machine continued working, even the board itself was later repaired.
As you know by now, I am geting old... 
Season greatings everybody! Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Zagreb, Croatia Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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