Unoffical empeg BBS

Quick Links: Empeg FAQ | Software | RioCar.Org | Hijack | jEmplode | emphatic
Repairs: Repairs | Addons: Eutronix | Cases

Topic Options
#236781 - 07/10/2004 16:21 Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help.
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Well, I finally got my riocar installed last night.. after having the thing sitting in my closet for like 8 months (rebuilding my car, don't ask). I was really excited about having it working finally.

The reason I am posting is because I'm having an issue with the power. I have it hooked up to my receiver/CD player via the RCA cables and have a constant 12V connected to the yellow wire and an ignition signal connected to the orange wire. Here's the problem: every little bump in the road causes the riocar to reboot, i.e. the power gets interrupted. Now, I'm 99.9% certain that my wiring is solid, not loose or anything like that. I noticed that if I push on the face slightly the power goes out as well. Perhaps there's a loose connection on the sled? I haven't had time to investigate this in depth yet.. I was hoping someone here might have seen this before and can offer some advice. I really hope I don't need a new sled.

Thanks.

Top
#236782 - 07/10/2004 16:47 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3932
Loc: Providence, RI
Do you have a sled whose top edge is not bent? If so, it's probably not sliding all the way into the docking connector.

Top
#236783 - 07/10/2004 16:52 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: Daria]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Do you have a sled whose top edge is not bent? If so, it's probably not sliding all the way into the docking connector.


I'm not sure what you mean by "top edge not bent". The docking sled has these little triangular tabs which, when bent, hold it into the drive bay of the car. Is that what you mean? If so, those are as bent as I could make them. I'm not sure that would interrupt the power anyway. If you are talking about the riocar's connection to the sled, then you might have a good point. I'm not sure about that. I mean, the riocar just slides into the sled and there's a click.. which I assumed meant it was "locked" into the sled. However, I did notice that after one particularly big bump this morning, the riocar slid out of the docking sled! what's up with that? How can I fix that?

Top
#236784 - 07/10/2004 16:53 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: Daria]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Actually, it probably is; there's a lucky coincidence that there's a slot in the fascia that lines up with the unbent lip, and all the unbent ones I've seen allow the empeg to slide all the way in anyway.

I'd suspect the wiring inside the sled's connector. Apparently many of the MkIIa sleds' connectors' pins weren't crimped well. I'd take it apart and try to fix that wiring. There's a FAQ that details how to take it apart and solder the wires to the pins.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

Top
#236785 - 07/10/2004 16:54 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Check the connectors on the empeg and the sled. I've had a pin in the sled connector come loose as well as a wire working itself out of the crimp. See this FAQ
_________________________
/Michael

Top
#236786 - 07/10/2004 16:58 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: wfaulk]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
I'd suspect the wiring inside the sled's connector. Apparently many of the MkIIa sleds' connectors' pins weren't crimped well. I'd take it apart and try to fix that wiring. There's a FAQ that details how to take it apart and solder the wires to the pins.


Noo! I hope not. How do I get the sled back out of the car's bay once those little triangular tabs are bent? I can't exactly unbend them.. there's now way to do that easily. Do you have a link to the wiring FAQ?

BTW- will it damage the riocar if I continue to use it in this state? i.e. constantly rebooting itself with every little bump?

Top
#236787 - 07/10/2004 17:00 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: mtempsch]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Check the connectors on the empeg and the sled. I've had a pin in the sled connector come loose as well as a wire working itself out of the crimp. See this FAQ


Thanks for the link.

One thing that seems suspicious is that my power goes out when I _push_ on the face, not tug or pull. I suppose this could be the same issue, it just seems illogical that pushing would cause a connector to come loose (logic tells me it would make the connection stronger).

Top
#236788 - 07/10/2004 17:01 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3932
Loc: Providence, RI
Quote:
Quote:
Do you have a sled whose top edge is not bent? If so, it's probably not sliding all the way into the docking connector.


I'm not sure what you mean by "top edge not bent". The docking sled has these little triangular tabs which, when bent, hold it into the drive bay of the car.


Nope. Edge. Not middle.
http://www.riocar.org/modules.php?op=mod...;faqent=165#165

Top
#236789 - 07/10/2004 17:01 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

The first thing is to verify that the empeg is completely seated in the sled. That is the question about the bent sled. If it is a wiring issue, there are ways the sled can be removed easily, usually with a thin metal strip inserted on each side to push the bent tabs back into place.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

Top
#236790 - 07/10/2004 17:04 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: Daria]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Nope. Edge. Not middle.
http://www.riocar.org/modules.php?op=mod...;faqent=165#165


Thanks for the link. I didn't notice if the top edge is bent or not. I'll have to check when I have time. If it's not bent, can I still contact support for a new sled?

Top
#236791 - 07/10/2004 17:06 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3932
Loc: Providence, RI
You can try.

If not, you can probably buy one from the Sleds link at the top of the page, or try to find someone who can bend the edge for you (or just trim the metal back; somewhere my father has a nibbler...)

Top
#236792 - 07/10/2004 17:08 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: pgrzelak]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Greetings!

The first thing is to verify that the empeg is completely seated in the sled. That is the question about the bent sled. If it is a wiring issue, there are ways the sled can be removed easily, usually with a thin metal strip inserted on each side to push the bent tabs back into place.


Thanks. But.. I'm not entirely sure how a bent top lip on the sled would affect the docking of the riocar into the sled? I mean, it doesn't hold the riocar in place at all.. it's more of a bevel that prevents the sled from being pushed too far into the car, right????

Either way, there's one thing I forgot to mention... my riocar is mounted into an overhead console and the bay is angle down at about, I dunno, 15-20 degrees. Could gravity be working against me here?

Top
#236793 - 07/10/2004 17:14 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Gravity could be working against you, but only if the empeg is not fully seated. The handle is spring loaded and the player locks into place. It usually takes a bit of force (accident, etc.) to get it to pop out of the sled without lifting the handle.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

Top
#236794 - 07/10/2004 17:50 Re: Power interrupts or Loose connections. Please help. [Re: rsgalloway]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Quote:
How do I get the sled back out of the car's bay once those little triangular tabs are bent? I can't exactly unbend them.. there's now way to do that easily


IME, you can normally do just that by using a small screwdriver. Insert tip in the space(s) between main sled body and the actual tab and lever the tab back "into" the sled.
_________________________
/Michael

Top
#236795 - 07/10/2004 17:58 Update [Re: mtempsch]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Thanks for all your help. Here's a quick update:

I just went out to examine the riocar and sled again. The sled _does_ have a lip on all four sides.

Moreover, I noticed that it only takes a very light touch to interrupt the power. There's maybe a 3 mm gap between the exterior lip/edge of the sled and the mounting dock of the car (which is made of metal, btw). When I push on the sled/riocar and the sled's lip/edge come into contact with the mounting dock, the power goes out. This little push is too insignificant to loosen any connections in the sled's main connector, IMO. It is seriously a very short distance, like I said maybe 3 mm and doesn't seem like enough of a movement to cause any disconnections.

Does the sled require a ground connection? I don't have one, just on my receiver. Could that be it?

Top
#236796 - 07/10/2004 18:30 Re: Update [Re: rsgalloway]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
ISTR someone having a problem like this before and fixing via a ground somewhere. But don't take my word for it. Try a search here on the BBS.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

Top
#236797 - 07/10/2004 19:53 Re: Update [Re: wfaulk]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Question: you explicitly mention the yellow and orange wire. What did you tie the other wires to? It certainly sounds like a grounding or shorting issue.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

Top
#236798 - 07/10/2004 20:04 Re: Update [Re: pgrzelak]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Question: you explicitly mention the yellow and orange wire. What did you tie the other wires to? It certainly sounds like a grounding or shorting issue.


Yes, I am beginning to think that way also. There's just not enough movement going on to tug on the connections themsevles. It's only when the metal sled come into full contact with the metal overhead console (to which the sled is mounted) that the problem happens.

Like I said before, I connected the yellow wire (live 12V) basically to an accessory port from the switchbox (this is also feeding my receiver). I connected the orange wire to the ignition switch (which is also connected to my receiver). Both of these are Y-splits... one half going to my receiver, the other half to the riocar.

I did not do anything to any other wires what-so-ever. Is that necessary? Maybe there is a short somewhere, like you said.

Top
#236799 - 07/10/2004 20:15 Re: Update [Re: rsgalloway]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I did not do anything to any other wires what-so-ever. Is that necessary?

Yes, there is also a black ground wire that must be connected to a ground point.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#236800 - 07/10/2004 20:18 Re: Update [Re: tfabris]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Quote:
Yes, there is also a black ground wire that must be connected to a ground point.


Huzzah! ... that must be it then. I didn't see this wire before or in any of the wiring diagrams on riocar.org so I overlooked it. If it's labeled there won't be any problems fixing this up. Thanks!

Top
#236801 - 07/10/2004 20:22 Re: Update [Re: rsgalloway]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Tony, while I was checking the FAQ for the wiring diagram, I saw a great table of the signals with no reference to the color of the wires along with a great color diagram with no label of the functions. Can these somehow be combined so that the connector pinout table will have some indication as to the connector / wire color?

Edit: Nevermind. I opened the two side by side, and you can cross reference them. Still, it would be easier if there was another column on that table...


Edited by pgrzelak (07/10/2004 20:36)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

Top
#236802 - 07/10/2004 20:46 Re: Update [Re: rsgalloway]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3932
Loc: Providence, RI
It is. After some ground loop problems I tied the one coming off the sled in my van with 6 gauge stranded(!) to the chassis. Of course, that didn't fix it either, but I've had no grounding issues since then in that vehicle. The loop problem needed isolators, and then went into remission.

Top
#236803 - 08/10/2004 03:59 Re: Update [Re: pgrzelak]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Quote:
Still, it would be easier if there was another column on that table


Something like this?

Mk2 & Mk2a Docking Connector Pinouts

1 - permanent power input (yellow)
2 - amp. remote (blue)
3 - tuner (grey)
4 - tuner (pink)
5 - tuner (purple)
6 - tuner (brown)
7 - tuner (red)
8 - serial pin 2 (RD) (orange)
9 - serial pin 3 (TD) (red)
10 - headlights sense input / serial pin 8 (CTS) (white)
11 - tel. mute input / serial pin 1 (CD) (green)
12 - microhone sleeve (black)
13 - earth (black)
14 - ignition sense input (orange)
15 - rear output right (red)
16 - rear output ground (bare copper)
17 - rear output left (white)
18 - front output right (red)
19 - front output ground (bare copper)
20 - front output left (white)
21 - aux input right (red)
22 - aux input ground (bare copper)
23 - aux input left (white)
24 - microphone tip (black w. stripe)
_________________________
/Michael

Top
#236804 - 08/10/2004 12:21 Re: Update [Re: mtempsch]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Exactly!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

Top
#236805 - 08/10/2004 14:42 Re: Update [Re: pgrzelak]
rsgalloway
new poster

Registered: 10/12/2003
Posts: 25
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Just wanted to report that it was in fact the missing ground connection that was causing my power problems. It seems to be fixed now. Although it did reboot after a particularly nasty bump in the road this morning.

Top