#239198 - 27/10/2004 17:01
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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photo 2
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238463-img_1101.jpg (135 downloads)
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#239199 - 27/10/2004 17:02
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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photo 3
Attachments
238464-img_1102.jpg (133 downloads)
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#239200 - 27/10/2004 17:11
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Looks good. Now I just have to find out how to locat a US distributor for it.
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#239202 - 27/10/2004 17:51
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Quote:
Sometimes this burns out the host's USB2 port due to excessive current draw on spin-up. Most of the time it doesn't.
Where were you BEFORE I did this to my PowerBook?  Luckily it only took out my right-side port. Unluckily, this cascaded into a problem that took out the driver controller on my motherboard 2 days later. Super-unlucky was that when this went, so did the built-in 80GB HD I had painstakingly set up and on which I had some original content that's not easily replaced... 
Bruno
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#239203 - 27/10/2004 17:59
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Damn, looks sweet (esp. at that price). Wish I could find one locally. I hate getting low-priced like that shipped. http://Tigerdirect.com also has a number of units available. They have a local outlet near me, but online variety is much greater. This is where I bought the 2.5" USB2.0 enclosure that took out my motherboard, usb port and two 2.5" HDD (one in notebook the other in enclosure). Bruno
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#239204 - 28/10/2004 00:24
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Delivery from TigerDirect.ca is pretty cheap. But I was in their store last weekend, and they certainly have a lot of JUNK there, much of it lacking any sign of a CSA (or even UL) approval. And no guarantee that the stuff that does have the label is actually "for real". Be afraid.. be very afraid..
Cheers
Edited by mlord (28/10/2004 00:25)
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#239205 - 28/10/2004 00:28
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yeah, bummer on the powerbook.
The basic spec is that many 2.5" drivers draw 5W of power during spin-up. Since they're running off of 5VDC, that means 1Amp. USB2 ports deliver 0.5Amp.. thus..
Some 2.5" enclosures include a funky cable with TWO USB-A connectors, so that it can draw power from two ports instead of one, for a total of 1Amp.
Others include obscure wording and references to external AC adapters and PS/2 power sources and stuff.. but the one's I've seen have never really explained the basic problem/risk with powering them from USB.
Most of the time it works fine, though.
Cheers
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#239206 - 28/10/2004 01:55
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Quote:
so do the two or three clicks that will remove the device from your system before pulling the plug
No, absolutely not, I shoudln't have to do that, and I shouldn't need that damn icon in the task bar. That's just not right.
The other reason for making those three clicks is to give the OS a chance to warn about not unplugging the drive holding opened but unsaved work.
Anybody. Do these drives (firewire/usb) always report under My computer as "hard drives", or do any report in as a device with removable storage? I think the latter is what Tony wants, if it exists. (There is, isn't there, a difference in how windows handles the two?)
edit: Good News Tony. After noising around XP, I found that the for the usb drive I have, there is a policy setting "Optomize for Quick Removal" "This setting disables write caching on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without using the Safe Removal icon." This is in Computer Managment/Device manager/Disk drives/device>properties/policies tab.
Edited by gbeer (28/10/2004 02:16)
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#239208 - 28/10/2004 12:13
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Sounds like a somewhat lousy option, though -- performance is gonna suffer.
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#239209 - 28/10/2004 12:21
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, if he's just using it to stream data, it shouldn't be too bad. Well, no. I guess it won't be able to lazy-write the inode-equivalents, so it'll be seeking around constantly. Yup. It'd still be much faster to just click the right buttons.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239210 - 28/10/2004 16:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I ended up ordering this one that Cybjorg linked. I wanted to get the one Mark recommended because of its built-in power supply, but couldn't find a US distributor and also was concerned about heat and noise. The one I ordered has a large quiet cooling fan instead of a small noisy cooling fan. Since I'm in the process of quieting down my system (I also just ordered this as the final step in quieting down my PC), I was concerned about that, you see.
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#239211 - 28/10/2004 17:20
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Okay, here's a question. In windows 2000, if I have a USB flash card reader and I unplug it, I get that stupid "You have unplugged..." dialog box. Does that also happen with a firewire enclosure? If not, I'll definitely get firewire.
Side note: Anyone ever find a way to get rid of that dialog box in windows 2000?
Fix the problem, not the dialog box...
In other words, the reason it is complaining is likely that write cache is enabled to that device, and no storage device in any OS or hardware storage box is hot removable with write cache enabled.
Regarding the Firewire/USB solution, my personal preference is powered Firewire. You can get 2.5 inch drive enclosures that can power themselves off the Firewire port.
And yes, if you have a 4/6 pin firewire port, it's 1394 A aka Firewire 400. Firewire 800 has 8 pins and is 1394 B. B is backwards compatible with an 8 to 6 pin cable.
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#239212 - 28/10/2004 18:01
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
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Quote:
I wanted to get the one Mark recommended because of its built-in power supply
Since the enclosure has a single barrel connector as the input, it should be relatively easy to get another supply. If the input is 12V, a car player supply may work.
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#239214 - 28/10/2004 19:13
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Folsom]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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It's not that I wanted to get another power supply, it's that I wanted to avoid the wall-wart and just have a standard mains lead. But I can work around the wall wart.
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#239215 - 29/10/2004 02:38
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The enclosure I recommended (with the apparently tiny fan) is much much quieter than any of the desktop drives in the house (a lot of them here).
Very quiet fan.
Cheers
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#239217 - 29/10/2004 20:37
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Ok, to hijack the thread a bit, I now am looking for a 2.5 inch drive enclosure. It will be used on both my Powerbook and my new Dell brick portable (Inspiron 9100). After having my USB port on the Powerbook fail once and Bruno with his horror story, I want 6 pin bus powered firewire for it. However, the brick lacks a 6 pin firewire port, though it does have a 4 pin one. It also has 5 USB 2 ports, but no PS/2 legacy port. So...
Anyone know of a 2.5 inch drive enclosure that is firewire and USB bus powered? The ones I looked through are either firewire only, or USB only with a PS/2 power port for use with the Firewire port. The goal is to just thow one cable in each respective laptop bag, and just use the drive on either when needed.
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#239218 - 29/10/2004 20:48
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Once again, my local corner store has it .
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#239219 - 30/10/2004 00:18
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Sounds like a somewhat lousy option, though -- performance is gonna suffer.
Boy you weren't kidding. I tried disabling write caching on my laptop's main drive. It didn't seem to make much of a difference under my normal usage, but when I put the laptop into hybernate mode, it took over 2 minuets, normally hibernate takes less than 15 seconds.
_________________________
Glenn
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#239220 - 30/10/2004 00:45
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yeah. The really worrisome part for *me* is that the lkml (Linux Kernel Mailing List -- aka. centre of the universe for Free penguins) has decided that in-drive write caching Is Bad, and are now instrumenting the (linux) kernel to defeat write-caching. Sure, it won't slow my systems down (much) since I regularly patch my own kernels, but..
Cheers
Edited by mlord (30/10/2004 00:46)
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#239222 - 30/10/2004 06:03
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
has it .
Hmm, can't find that product anywhere else except that store, and no solid confirmation "Bus powered" means both USB bus powered and Firewire bus powered. I can't even figure out what company makes it, but in a wild search off modified versions of the part number, I did find this that might work. The only bus power comment though seems to indicate only a dual USB solution though. I just sent them and e-mail and will see what they say.
Quote:
Here's another: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=624684&CatId=1204
Looked up the product on the manufactrers web site, and it is PS/2 powered.
Quote:
And a really nice one from Weibetech (though pricy): http://www.wiebetech.com/products/ComboGB.php
This seems to be perfect and could even provide use for the FW800 port on my laptop. But as you said very pricey.
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#239223 - 30/10/2004 13:11
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Well, PC Cyber is literally my local corner store.. I could bicycle over there and look at one, and buy it / ship it for you if you want.
EDIT: I just now rang them up to see -- not in stock at either of the two closest outlets. Bummer
Cheers
Edited by mlord (30/10/2004 13:18)
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#239224 - 30/10/2004 16:02
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Well, PC Cyber is literally my local corner store.. I could bicycle over there and look at one, and buy it / ship it for you if you want.
Thanks for the offer. If they do show up in stock again and appear to meet my needs, I would appreciate it. I'll make sure to post here if I find something else that works properly.
That FW800 one is very tempting, if only it wasn't over $100 US...
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#239225 - 02/11/2004 03:53
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
In other words, the reason it is complaining is likely that write cache is enabled to that device, and no storage device in any OS or hardware storage box is hot removable with write cache enabled.
Got the device, works great, looks great, love it.
However, unchecking the checkbox so that write caching is disabled on that drive does NOT rid me of the pester dialog. It still comes up even when the drive has been fully written and fully idle for an hour.
Also keep in mind that Windows XP rids you of the pester dialog by default, whether write caching is enabled or not.
The problem is not write-caching, the problem is the existence of the pester dialog.
Does anyone know how to get rid of it period?
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#239226 - 02/11/2004 04:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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This is interesting. My brand new SATA internal disk drive has the "Write Cache Enabled" checkbox disabled by default. And the external drive has it enabled by default.
You'd think that should be the other way around.
Anyone think of a reason I shouldn't enable the write cache on the internal disk drive? Windows warns me a blue streak when I do.
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#239227 - 02/11/2004 07:58
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Does anyone know how to get rid of it period?
In Windows 2000, I don't think you can. In Windows XP, it was removed, because by the time it's warned you, it's too late.
_________________________
-- roger
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