#240180 - 04/11/2004 18:12
This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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#240181 - 04/11/2004 18:25
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: Dylan]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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...be hard to nail it better!...especially like the secession suggestion; it's clearly two different countries, if not alternate views of reality...
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#240182 - 04/11/2004 18:30
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: kayakjazz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics? The red-states/blue-states map looks very tidily geographically split, and the last time there was such a tidy geographical voting split in the UK (the Thatcher era: England Conservative, Scotland Labour) the Scots got really pretty serious about secession. I just wonder whether it's a tired old "can't happen" in the US, or whether it's actually conceivable to some people...
Peter
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#240183 - 04/11/2004 18:31
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics?
Yes. You may remember this little war we had in the early 1860s....
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#240184 - 04/11/2004 18:34
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Yes. You may remember this little war we had in the early 1860s....
 Even my limited grasp on US history goes that far. I sort of meant modern US politics...
Peter
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#240185 - 04/11/2004 18:52
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: kayakjazz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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I made that observation earlier, and I went back and looked at election totals.
The problem is as you get further from the northeast, the country becomes more rural, and it breaks down almost to rural versus urban. Not completely, as you get further south that matters less. But the point is basically that it's harder to look at things as 2 countries when, as in areas like this, you realize it means you'd be in one and people not far away in another. You have a lot in common, not everything, mind you, but a lot. Why do you belong in 2 countries?
I will echo my earlier point about hating, which Jerz took issue with. It's still there. It's not everyone, not nearly. It's just too many people hating "the other side" for not agreeing, winners and losers. One side accuses the other of being stupid, or biased, or treating them like children, or whatever. My neighbors all already think I'm weird, and they're right, but I doubt any hate me because I voted for Kerry; Likewise, there are a few I'd guess voted for Bush, though they weren't in your face about it. Doesn't bother me. But the hate isn't even at that level, usually. It's easier to hate a large, faceless entity which doesn't think like you than it is to hate the guy that lives next to you, that works across from you, your brother-in-law, whatever.
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#240188 - 04/11/2004 19:31
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: peter]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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Quote:
Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics? The red-states/blue-states map looks very tidily geographically split, and the last time there was such a tidy geographical voting split in the UK (the Thatcher era: England Conservative, Scotland Labour) the Scots got really pretty serious about secession. I just wonder whether it's a tired old "can't happen" in the US, or whether it's actually conceivable to some people...
Peter
I don't think the seperation isn't as much red vs blue states as rural vs urban. States with large urban centers go democratic while more rural- and southern states go GGG (Gods, gays, guns). This is particularly evident looking at the county by county election map on CNN's website for the swing states like Ohio, Missouri, Iowa etc... All the blue is concentrated in urban areas- everything else is red. The interesting thing is the U.S. like most countries is getting more urban- so eventually the GOP are probably going have to deal with the same geographic problems the Democrats have now. Not to mention the fact my generation and younger are less reiligous and more accepting of gays- so the GGG issue cannot hold up forever.
Edited by siberia37 (04/11/2004 19:32)
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#240189 - 04/11/2004 19:32
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: JeffS]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
But I think the red would end up with the big military and ultimately just invade the blue! 
Also, once succession started happening I'd bet Texas would just go it alone. I think we've been just waiting for such an excuse anyway!
May we hold the door for you? I've thought Alaska should secede since before we became a state, though the majority now, who came from Texas & Oklahoma during the pipeline boom (the Visigoths came and sacked Rome...) probably wouldn't agree. If the blue states lose a war, we'd just apply for foreign aid like everybody else, though reconstruction of conquered countries ain't what it used to be...
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#240190 - 04/11/2004 19:36
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: kayakjazz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Wow. Not only a new woman, but a new Alaskan, too. You're hitting all the minorities!
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#240191 - 04/11/2004 19:42
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
I doubt the federal gov't would ever allow it to happen anyway.
Right...the federal government controlled by those who always purported to believe in smaller, less intrusive federal government---until the Right took power!
On Topic: given the vistas of virtually limitless causes for griping and debating now opening before us, maybe a separate political Off Topic*is*an idea whose time has come...?
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#240192 - 04/11/2004 19:45
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: wfaulk]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
Wow. Not only a new woman, but a new Alaskan, too. You're hitting all the minorities!
A new native Alaskan woman (with a small "n"), really a minority...!
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#240193 - 04/11/2004 19:53
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: loren]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
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I was looking at that map yesterday. Interesting.
_________________________
Doug
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#240194 - 04/11/2004 23:31
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Actually, this one tells the tale better.
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#240195 - 04/11/2004 23:34
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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#240196 - 05/11/2004 00:07
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: Daria]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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...one doesn't show either Alaska or Hawaii, and we've only been states for 45 & 44 years...and the other shows nobody home in Alaska..we're a figment of someone's imagination?
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#240198 - 05/11/2004 00:32
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Of course, the last 2 were serious, whereas this one is offensive; I got all 3 from people I know that I used to go to school with, back in the "go-go 90s"
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#240199 - 05/11/2004 00:59
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#240200 - 05/11/2004 02:13
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: jimhogan]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Wow - that really is quite high-brow for The Mirror. They even used 4 syllable words. 
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#240202 - 05/11/2004 12:15
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: JeffS]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Ford or Chevy
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
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#240203 - 05/11/2004 13:23
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: blitz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
A vote for Dodge is a wasted vote .
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-- roger
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#240204 - 05/11/2004 13:23
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: blitz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
Heh, no, but all I ever hear is "Ford!" or "Chevy!" Dodge and GMC just don't ever seem to come up, though I see people driving them all of the time. Now Toyota is another story!
The truck you drive seems to be a religion around here, though I don't really get it. My wife drove a GMC truck when we first met, and now she drives a Ford Escape. Her brother-in-law had an absolute fit when she did it, but it's been one of the best purchases we've ever made.
I don't drive a truck, nor do I want to. I'm happy with my mustang and its two DINs (see where my priorities are?)
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240205 - 05/11/2004 13:48
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: JeffS]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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I bought a Viper a couple of months ago and it's fun... although kind of scary.
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#240207 - 05/11/2004 18:19
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: JeffS]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
Just that I haven't been to any other state (granted, I haven't been to them all) where people seem to have as much pride in where they live.
I had the impression you had[/h] been to Alaska.... It's a state of mind, which I inhabit even when I'm not there. And Texas may be analogous in that way; few people seem to feel such identity with Ohio or Nevada,etc.
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#240208 - 05/11/2004 18:42
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: kayakjazz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
I had the impression you had been to Alaska
Nope, not yet, anyway. I hope to one day, with one goal of actually getting to sit down with Doug and hash out all of the problems of the world through our mostly incompatible viewpoints!
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240209 - 05/11/2004 18:50
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
[Re: JeffS]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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Quote:
I hope to one day, with one goal of actually getting to sit down with Doug and hash out all of the problems of the world through our mostly incompatible viewpoints
Make it in summer (most likely...!) and you can sort us both out!
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