#247094 - 22/01/2005 05:45
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
How do they do the ripping and encoding?
Ditto on DVDShrink. Simply the best thing for making backups.
As for backing up via stored file on your PC, I like FairUse. Like Bruno said, 2GB is great for storing an entire movie as an AVI (I prefer Xvid to Divx). These files look great streamed to my Linkplayer onto a 60" TV. You can even keep the surround sound tracks.
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Matt
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#247095 - 22/01/2005 06:59
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
The whole disc flipping thing was a PITA back in the early days of DVD.
The Friend's series DVDs still come on flippable disks, which is a pain.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#247096 - 22/01/2005 19:00
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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DVDs are all MPEG2. Unprotected ones can be played with any MPEG2 codec and reencoded to a lower bit-rate and also transcoded to a different format. Protected ones (Holywoood stuff with CSS) must first be unencrypted before being played or otherwise manipulated.
Some people just rip and that's it. Then you'll need a player that can both play back a file as well as encrypted streams. Others unencrypt but don't rencode/transcode. Some do it all to save space. With the various tools you can take out whole menus, some menus, replace menus, remove individual audio tracks, subtitles, etc. You can pretty much customize the whole thing. You can even squish (reencode at a lower bitrate) two movies and put them back on a single DVD with a custom menu (good to do with content you want to give to a kid so they don't trash the original discs and don't have to swap out discs to access multiple programs).
Back on topic for a second, I bought a Seagate 200GB ATA-133 drive last night and an aluminum external enclosure with Firewire (IEEE1394) and USB2.0 interface. This is going to come in very handy as both my desktop systems are Shuttles with no more space inside them for drives and I also use an Apple PowerBook. Formatted the disk in the Mac HFS+ Journaled format and use driver software on the Windows machines to read/write to it (can't write to NTFS from Mac OS). I'm also going to get a Kurobox to use with another drive (200-300GB) in a couple of months.
Bruno
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#247097 - 24/01/2005 14:31
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: lectric]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Thanks for all the help, but I'm now more confused than ever! After looking into this a bit more I've managed to conivince myself that a RAID system is the way to go, due to the redundancy. I really don't want to have to re-rip my collection again (espically the LPs). But the PC in question here is a Dell 8200 and I have no idea on how to add a RAID array to it. RAID 1 or 5 seem suitable. I'm know I'm way over my head here and should just get a 400 GB internal drive and be done with it...but...
I'm guessing that I'll need to add a RAID controlller card to the PC correct? Then its a matter of connecting the RAID array(external 4 bay tower?) to the card. Are the prices for these things anywhere close to reasonable? If the cost is prohibitive, I suppose I could just get the 400GB plus a DVD burner and back-up onto DVDs...
I just knew moving from nice and simple MP3s to FLAC was going to be a PITA, I just didn't know what a can of worms I was opening! Sorry for the stream of conscienceness post...
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#247098 - 24/01/2005 15:10
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: petteri]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
I'm guessing that I'll need to add a RAID controlller card to the PC correct?
Not if you don't want to. Linux will use software RAID over your existing disks. I don't know what's involved with getting software RAID on Windows, though -- you might need Windows Server.
Otherwise, you can pick up Highpoint or Promise RAID cards for not a lot of money.
Quote:
Are the prices for these things anywhere close to reasonable?
Depends on what you mean by reasonable. When I went for RAID5, I picked up a 3ware SATA card, 3ware's hotswap SATA cage (it takes 4 drives and fits in 3x5.25" bays -- it includes the drive trays), and 4x200Gb Seagate Barracuda disks, it came to around £700 as I recall. This was about 3-4 months ago.
You can spend less by opting for a cheaper card (e.g. the Promise) and by not using a swappable cage.
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If the cost is prohibitive, I suppose I could just get the 400GB plus a DVD burner and back-up onto DVDs...
If you're just dealing with music (or other content that doesn't change that often), this might be the right thing for you. Burning DVDs takes an age, and you have to be there to swap DVD-Rs. If your content doesn't change very often, then you only have to do this every couple of weeks. If you're backing up other stuff, I think you'll soon get bored with it.
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-- roger
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#247099 - 24/01/2005 15:13
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: petteri]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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the PC in question here is a Dell 8200
Ah, is that a laptop? In which case, you're in for a whole heap of trouble -- laptops aren't very upgradeable, as you probably realise.
_________________________
-- roger
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#247100 - 24/01/2005 15:30
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Ah, is that a laptop? In which case, you're in for a whole heap of trouble -- laptops aren't very upgradeable, as you probably realise.
No, its not. It's a run of the mill PC that I bought about 4 years ago. Currently all four PCI slots are filled, sound card, NIC, TV tuner and firewire card. Has both a DVD and CD-ROM (canone of these be swapped for an additional HD?) and two HDD. Thanks.
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#247101 - 24/01/2005 17:05
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: petteri]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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No, its not.
My mistake. I did a search for Dell 8200 and found a bunch of laptops.
Quote:
Currently all four PCI slots are filled, sound card, NIC, TV tuner and firewire card.
That's a problem if you want a hardware RAID solution. It appears that if you're using Windows 2000 or Windows XP, you can have software RAID-1. If you want software RAID-5, you'll need Windows Server (either 2000 or 2003). See this page at microsoft.com.
It seems that if you want external storage, your best option is an external Firewire or USB drive (although, if the PC is 4 years old, it'll be USB1, so it won't be as quick as USB2).
Quote:
Has both a DVD and CD-ROM (can one of these be swapped for an additional HD?)
Yep. As long as they're IDE/ATAPI drives (and they most probably are).
_________________________
-- roger
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#247102 - 24/01/2005 19:25
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Quote:
Currently all four PCI slots are filled, sound card, NIC, TV tuner and firewire card.
That's a problem if you want a hardware RAID solution.
It seems that if you want external storage, your best option is an external Firewire or USB drive (although, if the PC is 4 years old, it'll be USB1, so it won't be as quick as USB2).
Quote:
Has both a DVD and CD-ROM (can one of these be swapped for an additional HD?)
Yep. As long as they're IDE/ATAPI drives (and they most probably are).
I can get rid of the TV tuner card, my cable company installed a DVR a few weeks ago. Is there a solution where I can install a RAID card to control an external (4 bay?) RAID array? That would be my ideal solution. Or is there a USB/Firewire external drive like the LaCie above that is RAID 1/5, not RAID 0? The Firewire card is actually a firewire/ USB 2.0 card so either connection type is fine. Thanks so much for your help in this!
Peter
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#247103 - 24/01/2005 20:05
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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(although, if the PC is 4 years old, it'll be USB1, so it won't be as quick as USB2)
And by this Roger means: "Slow as death, don't even bother with USB 1.1."
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#247104 - 24/01/2005 20:46
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: petteri]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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I have to wonder if you really need the external raid array. If what you're ripping to FLACs and storing them for a rainy day, raid is perhaps the worst solution. Say it with me here. "RAID is not a backup solution. Raid is a high speed/availability solution"
Raid does nothing to prevent you from deleting all your files accidentally. Raid won't let you get your files back once you delete them accidentally. Raid won't help you if the room where your computer lives burns down. Raid won't help if it floods. Raid won't help if you get a malicious virus. Raid won't help you if your raid controller fails and writes random ones and zeroes across your array.
Buy two USB2.0 enclosures and two hard drives. All your flacs should fit on one 200gb hard drive, so buy something slightly larger. Copy all your FLACs to both. Take one and leave it at your office or some other physical location. You'll have a more secure backup system for much less money.
Matthew
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#247105 - 24/01/2005 20:58
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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And use rsync after the fact to keep them updated.
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Bitt Faulk
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#247106 - 24/01/2005 21:54
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: matthew_k]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
I have to wonder if you really need the external raid array. If what you're ripping to FLACs and storing them for a rainy day, raid is perhaps the worst solution. Say it with me here. "RAID is not a backup solution. Raid is a high speed/availability solution"
SNIP
Buy two USB2.0 enclosures and two hard drives. All your flacs should fit on one 200gb hard drive, so buy something slightly larger. Copy all your FLACs to both. Take one and leave it at your office or some other physical location. You'll have a more secure backup system for much less money.
Matthew
I need both space for backup and regular daily use. I haven't yet gotten to back-up. For now I just need a place to store the CDs I have in FLAC format. RAID may indeed be overkill and beyond my computer skills. As for back up, I don't know, perhaps a secondary external drive....
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#247107 - 24/01/2005 22:02
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
"RAID is not a backup solution. Raid is a high speed/availability solution"
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
Quote:
Raid won't help you if your raid controller fails and writes random ones and zeroes across your array.
And as we discussed in another thread earlier... RAID won't help you when your controller card goes Tango Uniform and you're unable to replace it with the exact same model of card because they aren't available any more. (Plugging good RAID drives into a new/different controller card results in blank drives.)
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#247108 - 25/01/2005 05:24
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: matthew_k]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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My thoughts exactly. These days the best backup for a monster disk is another monster disk, updated periodically (carefully - missconfigured sync script can eat both sides) and kept in a safe place. The problems start if you need more space than available in reasonably-priced disks (what, 400G nowadays?)
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#247109 - 25/01/2005 10:35
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: bonzi]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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So its settled then. 400GB internal drive plus the 500GB external listed at the top of this thread. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.
Peter
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#247110 - 25/01/2005 12:21
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks, Tony, that's good info. I may stay away from RAID now and just do what I've always done - get the latest and biggest drive I can.
Really, I'm not sure why I was worried about it all. I've always had great luck with drive stability (*knocks on wood repeatedly*), most of my data isn't incredibly valuable, and the little that is gets backed up to DVD+RW every so often.
Question for you folks: what, if any, kind of power saving options do you guys use? I keep my machine on 24/7, and I'm just wondering if/when I should tell my disks to spin down.
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Matt
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#247111 - 25/01/2005 14:06
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
what, if any, kind of power saving options do you guys use? I keep my machine on 24/7, and I'm just wondering if/when I should tell my disks to spin down.
My Linux fileserver is on 24/7 -- I need to investigate disk spin-down. Question for Mark: is this configurable with hdparm even though /dev/sda is actually a hardware RAID array with 4 disks in it?
My webserver is on 24/7, and I don't intend to look at disk spin-down. My Windows box is on 24/7, and the disks are set to spin down after 2 hours.
What I want to do is set my Windows box to go into standby and enable Wake-on-LAN, but I need to investigate whether I can get my router to send the magic packets off the back of an inbound connection (e.g. Remote Desktop/whatever).
_________________________
-- roger
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#247112 - 25/01/2005 15:13
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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So it definitely is a good idea for drives in my Windows box to spin them down when not in use? 2 hours or more seems logical to me. I was unsure whether having the drives spin up and down would be worse than spinning continuously.
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Matt
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#247113 - 25/01/2005 23:31
Re: External HDD for large music collection (FLAC)
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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If it's a 3ware card, then they don't implement the hdparm interface in their driver, so nogo. I don't know if their backdoor has a raw command transport, though.
Cheers
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