Yesterday, two separate events made me start thinking about trading in my 1999 Mustang. The first one was when I hit the 60,000 milestone on the way to get it inspected, the second one was when I forked over $850 to get it past inspection (broken secondary air pump, broken sensor in the emissions system, and rear brakes.) These events have me concerned that I'm at the point where I'll have to shell out significant coinage every year to keep my aging American ride running, and maybe it's a good time to break the cycle.

No sooner am I pondering this very thought when a commercial for the 2006 Dodge Charger comes on the tube. I was mesmerized by the car's looks, and after reading some reviews and previews, most notably this one, I'm drooling in anticipation of getting to test drive one. Of course I'm also going to take a hard look at the '05 Mustangs, but the idea of having four doors, an "autostick" tansmission, and more "luxury options" is quite appealing.

The one concern, of course, is empeg-friendliness, so does anyone here have a Dodge vehicle of recent vintage, or know if they're typically friendly with respect to installing aftermarket audio? I'm sure detailed install info won't be available for quite some time, but if anyone's installed an empeg in another Dodge vehicle lately, I'd like to hear about it.

Cool. I shall ask to see one with the standard AM/FM when I do my test drive.

Fingers crossed it's single DIN with useful pocket space below it.

Right next to that picture is one showing the not-nav dash. It looks a little more difficult but probably not impossible if you're of a mind to do some Dremelling.

My mini in semi auto mode will change the "gear" automatically but it won't until the RPMs are at the red line but it's a CVT so it's not like it's really changing gears anyway .

One of the perks of living in proximity with Detroit and working at the border is that I regularly get new cars and prototypes coming through my lines...

Last winter, the orange Charger Daytona came through, and since it was early morning I was able to hold the driver for a few moments longer while I drooled out the side of my window...

All I could muster was....Suuuuuweeeeeet!

My boss has just got a Maserati GranSport with the "flappy paddle gearshift" and he says it's pretty good. It doesn't let you do silly things like changing down to second while doing 70. Apparently the box is from the Ferrari 360 F1, and with the engine being a detuned version of the 430 it goes pretty well...

Gareth

Actually, if you look close at the Daytona's pic, you'll see black trim on the hood and behind the "C" pillars...the trim is flat black and reminiscent of the stuff they used on early '70's muscle cars...it has "HEMI" very neatly spelled out on both sides of the hood in BIG letters....so there's no doubt what's lurking under there

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But the Mustang has two fewer doors, and the two doors it has are wider and unwieldy to open in crowded parking lots

Good points. That's why I have a sedan.

Yeah, but those gearboxes are actually more closely related to manual transmissions. They have a clutch instead of a torque converter, and multiple gears instead of a planetary gear system. The computer does neat things in addition to engaging and releasing the clutch, like preventing you from doing stupid things like you said, and also does rev-matching, so it effectively heel-and-toes it for you.

Those things are way cool. I still prefer doing it by hand, but they're actually technical improvements, rather than just a middle ground between auto and manual.

These events have me concerned that I'm at the point where I'll have to shell out significant coinage every year to keep my aging American ride running,

As opposed to shelling out insignificant coinage to make the payments on a new car?

Keep in mind that $850 is less money than a single month's payment on a new car given a few premises like a $35K price and three-year financing at 6% annual interest.

"...aging American ride"?

The newest car that I own is more than twice the age of your car, with nearly three times the mileage! My annual repair and maintenance bills would make you turn pale if $850 scares you... yet my cost per mile is only a fraction of what it would be with a new car.

Let's see: Typical new car, 15,000 miles per year...

Depreciation...............$10,000
Gasoline......................$1,500
Insurance.....................$3,500
Repairs........................$0
Maintenance................$150
Miscellaneous.............$200
Total:.............................$15,350

Cost Per Mile: $1.02

I was going to add about $11,000 in car payments to the list, but that would be unfair since I'm adding in the depreciation, and you'll get that money back (minus the depreciation) in the long run when you sell the car. I could be picky, and charge for the interest that $11,000 a year would earn for you if you had it in a CD or money market fund, but, naahhh... I think the numbers are compelling enough as-is.


My ShoWagon, 15,000 miles per year...

Depreciation...............$ 500
Gasoline......................$1,500
Insurance.....................$1,200
Repairs........................$1,500
Maintenance................$ 300
Miscellaneous.............$ 300
Total:............................$5,300

Cost Per Mile: $0.35

I think I'll keep my old car, continue pouring money into it, and pocket the $10,000 I'm not spending on a new one.

tanstaafl.

Your point is well taken, but I'm quite certain the numbers you used overstate the case significantly.

The "average american car" doesn't depreciate 10 grand in the first year, because the average American car costs ~$24,000, and there's no way the average car loses 40% of its value in one year. I'm sure there are outliers that will lose 40% in the first year, but there's no way it's the average. From the Googling I've done, I think a more accurate figure is 20-25% for the first year, and about half that for for years 2 and 3, so probably 50% after 3 years and 45,000 miles.

So, as an example, let's take that average $24,000 car. In the first year, I fully expect it to lose 20% ($4,800) , and wouldn't be surprised if it loses 25% ($6000.) By the end of year 3 (when the factory warrany runs out) I would expect it to have lost 50%, or $12,000. Average that over the 3 years and you have $4,000 in depreciation per year, not $10,000.

The other bogus number is the insurance. $3500 is way higher than the average new car insurance policy. When I drove a brand new 1999 Mustang, as an unmarried 21 year old, with a very spotty driving record, in the 5-county Philadelphia area (very expensive auto insurance region) I was paying about $200/mo, or $2,400 a year. Googling for the national average led me to this AAA page which puts the average full coverage new car policy at $1,600.

To be fair, more Googling says that even your used car insurance number is too high, as the average policy (counting both new and used) is around $700... So I'll go lower and say that $500 is the average used car insurance (something has to be pulling down the average from $1,600, right?)

I won't dispute the other numbers, so let's re-run the comparison:

Depreciation...............$4,000
Gasoline......................$1,500
Insurance.....................$1,600
Repairs........................$0
Maintenance................$150
Miscellaneous.............$200
Total:.............................$7,450

Cost Per Mile: $0.49

A quick look at the AAA link above shows our simulation is very close to their own estimate for total cost/mile of a new car, which is $0.56.

Now, for the used car example...

Depreciation...............$ 500
Gasoline......................$1,500
Insurance.....................$ 500
Repairs........................$1,500
Maintenance................$ 300
Miscellaneous.............$ 300
Total:............................$ 4,600

Cost Per Mile: $0.30

Still a significant difference, of course! But your fuzzy math makes it look like you have to be a complete moron to buy new, which is not the case. To many people, there is value in having to worry less about breaking down, not having to pay for repairs for 3 years, and, yes, the joy of owning a new car. Apparently, that value is about $0.15 a mile, or about 3 grand a year. As someone who owned 5 used cars before he bought his first new one, I consider myself one of those people.

The defense rests, your honor!

I've had a Mini for a year and a half and it's cost me $0 in repairs.

Uh... Warranty?

Yeah good one ha ha ha. With the VW the turbo blew up and they didn't want to warranty it because I didn't get the maintance done from them. They ended up paying for part of it.

The Mini had a wheel bearing fail and they won't warranty that plus the warranty ends in 6K miles (about 2 months).

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The Mini had a wheel bearing fail and they won't warranty that

Try another dealer? That's crap. Usually, drivetrain warranties are longer than the rest of the car.. I'd make a fuss and get it fixed.

It's mini there is only one dealer per state pretty much. They say it's not normal wear so it's not covered.

Do you mean it IS normal wear? Most warranties cover everything except normal wear (tire tread, wipers, etc). If wheel bearings normally wore out so soon, they'd have a point. But since they don't, then a bad part should be suspected (unless they can prove that the owner did something wrong to the car).

I'm just saying I'd make a stink about it and call around to other dealerships or to Mini corporate. Have you checked Mini forums for similar experiences?

To many people, there is value in having to worry less about breaking down, not having to pay for repairs for 3 years, and, yes, the joy of owning a new car

Tony, that is very well stated. You are correct, I did leave some of the intangibles out of my calculations.

I don't think I mis-stated the numbers to quite the extent you claim, although you are probably right, they are high.

I was figuring on a more expensive car -- you are replacing a Mustang, so I figured to replace it with a really nice Mustang GT Convertible, well-optioned. That would run at least $32,000, maybe more, so a $10K depreciation in the first year might indeed be a possibility, but you're probably right, $6K might be more in line. How about $8K as a compromise?

And again, you caught me: I was looking at only the first year expenses; subsequent year expenses will be less.

As for insurance... maybe Alaska is more expensive (relative to other places) than I thought. I was just making up numbers based on what my insurance is costing me. All I carry is liability insurance, and I'm paying well over $1,000 a year.

In the real world, I'd be surprised if your actual cost of ownership came in at less than $0.60 to $0.70 a mile.

If I came across as anti-new-car, well, it's kind of because I am. I have known too many people who get pressured by slick car salesmen (Sorry, Heather! ) into buying new cars they cannot afford. I watched in horror as a poor army PFC got talked into financing a POS Ford Escort on a 60-month loan, where the payments were going to take at least 70% of his total net income. He would be "upside down" in that loan until the day he made his final payment, at which time he'd have to pay the wrecking yard to come and take it off his hands.

I've always gone by the rule of thumb that if you can't pay a car off in 36 months (24 months would be better yet), you simply cannot afford that car. But, we're getting pretty far afield from the original premise: is it more economical to fix your old car or buy a new one? It is almost always less expensive to fix the old one. However, once you add in those intangibles, the equation changes somewhat.

I imagine General Motors is relieved that that is the case!

tanstaafl.

Yes they say it can't possible fail any other way than me driving bad so they won't cover it I don't even try to press this stuff anymore (They better hope their copier doesn't break).

I say if it can't take my driving it's a piece of crap

I'd have to try it.. but I might give up my manual for one of the VW/Audi DSG trannies.

http://www.germancarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3021129.001/volkswagen/1.html

I drove a friends Mazda RX-8.. I don't know what it's like with a stick.. but tiptronic is even more anoying than a standard auto.

Well, as predicted...

http://gallery.tonyc.org/v/2005-06-28Charger/

I'll be empegless until at least Tuesday. Withdrawal symptoms setting in, but the roar of the engine helps ease the pain.

boooo. hissss. Pic isn't loading. Congrats!

Ugh. My web host needs a kick in the nuts.

Sorry, guys. I'll attach a pic here for now.