#257618 - 03/06/2005 16:11
Looking for a side MP3 player
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Here's what I'm looking for:
-cheap - like under $50 or even under $35
-not huge - 128MB to 256MB
-small - like thumb-drive shaped
-like a thumb drive, it would be nice if it had a male USB end
-doesn't need a fancy screen or anything
-important: must operate as a standard mass storage device
Here's the deal: my girlfriend may get an MP3 player for her birthday. One of the contenders is the Archos Gmini400, a very impressive little toy. One of the impressive bits is that it has USB host capabilities. See where I'm going with this?
So basically, when she's working out and doesn't want the bulk of the Archos, she could just quickly throw a few dozen songs onto a tiny MP3 player with only minimal functionality and be on her merry way.
I know my requirements are a bit limiting, especially in the price department, but I've seen several things that come close, but no cigar.
Oh, and does anyone know where I could get a USB cable that was male mini USB to female type B connector, only as short as possible, like a matter of inches?
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Matt
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#257619 - 03/06/2005 16:20
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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This seems to fit your specs pretty well. The geeks have it for $52 here.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#257620 - 03/06/2005 16:28
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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The only problem which you may run into with these cheapo MP3 players is that the firmware usually has a lot of issues. This normally would be okay but it's highly unlikely you'll ever get any firmware updates. Odd menu system, VBR bugs, inability to playback certain files etc...
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#257621 - 03/06/2005 17:02
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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Master Boot Logo(er)
Registered: 26/08/2003
Posts: 525
Loc: California
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This one claims to have upgradeable firmware, built in FM and speaker and what's this, supports LRC V0.2 format!! for $60!! I think I want one 
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aka: [color:"blue"]Boot Logo Master[/color] PayPal Contributions for Custom Boot Logos are gladly accepted. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> itirado[@]adobe[.]com
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#257622 - 03/06/2005 17:10
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Skunk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
This one claims to have upgradeable firmware, built in FM and speaker and what's this, supports LRC V0.2 format!! for $60!!
Quite neat but most of them claim to have upgradable firmware. You just never get the upgrades unfortunately. Part of the firmware for these things are usually stored on the flash which is why you're not supposed to reformat them normally. You have to use their special utility which puts that bit of the firmware back when it's done.
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#257623 - 03/06/2005 17:14
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks for the suggestions. Keep 'em coming! I was expecting that I'd get these types of players. They have too much! Seven colors? Psh! I only need two! 
But seriously, it seems that you cannot get something like this for less than around $60. I really don't care about the firmware very much. As long as it plays music, that's fine.
I may consider this one. I'm a little worried about the dimensions, though. They don't show you how deep it is, and I must assume that to house all the bits and fit a AAA battery in there, it's probably not thumbdrive size.
My search continues!
*edit*
Why is it that every tiny MP3 player now comes with built-in radio tuners and recording capability? If these functions add a significant enough cost to the device, I wonder why there aren't more options without them.
Edited by Dignan17 (03/06/2005 17:16)
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Matt
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#257624 - 03/06/2005 17:29
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
As long as it plays music, that's fine.
Thats the problem. One of the crappy SigmaTel based ones I've got lying around doesn't play some MP3 properly. The files are fine and can be played back fine with everything else but if I try it on that particular MP3 player then it sounds like I'm underwater. I had it changed and it still did it so it's the actual firmware itself. Some people have managed to hack together their own firmware from bits of the firmware updates for other similar players but usually there is some flaw left over.
Quote:
Why is it that every tiny MP3 player now comes with built-in radio tuners and recording capability? If these functions add a significant enough cost to the device, I wonder why there aren't more options without them.
The radio tuners in these things are incredibly cheap. You can basically get nearly all of it inside a single chip now. They use the headphone lead as the antenna so reception is spotty to say the least. The recording capability is just part of the chipset they use so I guess they see it as a "free" feature for the cost of a socket.
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#257625 - 03/06/2005 17:45
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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That's too bad. I'm just suprised there isn't something like a low-cost, smaller capacity Shuffle (which I already can't believe costs over $90 for 512 MB - that's insane).
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Matt
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#257626 - 03/06/2005 17:48
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
That's too bad. I'm just suprised there isn't something like a low-cost, smaller capacity Shuffle (which I already can't believe costs over $90 for 512 MB - that's insane).
Only Apple would be able to get away with making the Shuffle. If anybody else had done it then everybody would have just laughed.
Give it a go anyway. The player I've got is a couple of years old now so hopefully they're better at writing firmware...
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#257627 - 03/06/2005 18:45
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#257628 - 03/06/2005 18:46
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Same site $28, but that one doesn't seem to have a male USB on it (I don't really know about the $34 one either). This one definitely connects with a mini-usb cable.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#257629 - 03/06/2005 18:51
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Or go with the original: Creative MuVo $58 for 256. I love mine.
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~ John
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#257630 - 03/06/2005 19:07
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I knew the winner would come from you, Rob That looks fine to me, and for $28, I can afford to take a chance on it. That also makes the connection simpler. Anyone know where I can find something like a 4" mini USB to mini USB cable?
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Matt
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#257632 - 03/06/2005 21:01
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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You said that that $28 one had a mini USB port, right? I was saying in my first post how, since this would likely act as a mass storage device, I could just plug it into the mini USB port on the Archos Gmini400 (USB host), and load files onto it. The question in that case would be whether or not the two would be compatable, but I'd guess that they are.
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Matt
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#257633 - 03/06/2005 21:17
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Yeah, the cable provided in the picture looks like it has a mini usb connector on it. I didn't know you wanted to hook into the Archos unit. That would be cool if they can just swap files like that. I never heard of that.
Anyway, I've never seen a cable where both ends were mini usb.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#257634 - 03/06/2005 22:01
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Anyway, I've never seen a cable where both ends were mini usb.
USB-on-the-go cables are mini USB on both sides. The mini ones actually have 5 pins on the connector. The extra pin signals the device whether to be host or peripheral. There are actually two types of connector. More information here on this app note.
Edited by tman (03/06/2005 22:22)
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#257635 - 04/06/2005 00:47
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Same site $28, but that one doesn't seem to have a male USB on it (I don't really know about the $34 one either). This one definitely connects with a mini-usb cable.
This site shows the $34 one with a USB plug.
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#257636 - 04/06/2005 01:22
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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So which device is host depends on which way around the cable is plugged in. Cool. I'm kindof wishing my empeg was that way now.
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Glenn
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#257637 - 04/06/2005 09:42
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
So which device is host depends on which way around the cable is plugged in. Cool. I'm kindof wishing my empeg was that way now.
Only if it supports USB-on-the-go. If it doesn't support it then it's just a plain peripheral. The cable just negotiates which device is host first anyway. They can swap around later on their own.
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#257638 - 05/06/2005 06:55
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Of course, it doesn't really matter if I can't find the cable
I emailed the people at pccables.com, and they replied telling me I could make my own 24" cable. If I wanted to make my own, it would be shorter. Does anyone know where I can find these things? If I can't get any even close to two feet, then I guess I might try making my own. I've never done that before, it might be fun 
*edit*
By the way, I took a look at the Archos GMini400 at CompUSA today. It's a very nice little PMP. Pretty screen, good size, and I discovered that the software, unlike the software on my Archos, gives you the file folder and soup mode structures as options. Imagine that, you can choose which one you want! I wonder if I'd gone with an iPod if that were possible (I'm not a fan of soup modes).
I recommend taking a look at one next time you're [rant:] in the worst computer chain on earth (CompUSA). It literally took me 15 minutes and three sales reps to get someone to plug the now-dead Archos into a damn power supply. Naturally, the iPod was the only player continuously charging in the display.
Edited by Dignan17 (05/06/2005 07:01)
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Matt
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#257640 - 05/06/2005 15:08
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks, they've got them (and I know what they look like ). Three feet is probably good enough. I may still see if I'm capable of making my own two feet one, just for fun
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Matt
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#257641 - 13/06/2005 22:57
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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So...how hard is it to wire your own cables? I got the device today, and while it's a cheap piece of plastic, it's well worth the $35 w/shipping. It weighs about as much as a cheap piece of plastic and a AAA battery that it runs on. It also came pre-loaded with two songs, one of which is "Imagine," which I'm certain they payed the rights for to ship with all their players The problem I face now? The interface. This device is solely for connecting to another USB host device and transferring files. The difficulty is that it is not, in fact, mini USB. It's some weird proprietary connector, which makes no sense as it is roughly the same size as mini USB. So, given that the other end is a regular USB connector, how hard would it be for someone like me to chop it off and replace it with a mini USB connector?
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Matt
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#257642 - 13/06/2005 23:12
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
The problem I face now? The interface. This device is solely for connecting to another USB host device and transferring files. The difficulty is that it is not, in fact, mini USB. It's some weird proprietary connector, which makes no sense as it is roughly the same size as mini USB.
Take a pic of it?
Quote:
So, given that the other end is a regular USB connector, how hard would it be for someone like me to chop it off and replace it with a mini USB connector?
Buy a mini USB cable, chop it in half, use a multimeter to work out which wires go to what pin, chop the cable that it comes with the MP3 player in half, use the multimeter again, wire them together correctly. Done
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#257643 - 13/06/2005 23:33
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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#257644 - 13/06/2005 23:59
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Very strange. It doesn't look like a mini-A or mini-B. I think chopping the cable is the way to go unfortunately.
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#257645 - 14/06/2005 01:13
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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You might want to try just slitting the shield lengthwise first. Just to see what's inside. Depending on what is found, you may want to just wrap it up again.
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Glenn
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#257646 - 14/06/2005 03:24
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
You might want to try just slitting the shield lengthwise first. Just to see what's inside. Depending on what is found, you may want to just wrap it up again.
Actually, no matter what I'll probably keep it. My main portable is the Archos AV340, which is near a pound. This could be a nice change of pace from time to time. So if I can't get this to work out with the girlfriend's player, I'll just keep it.
I don't suppose anyone knows where to find a USB type A female to mini USB male cable?
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Matt
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#257647 - 14/06/2005 10:58
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#257648 - 15/06/2005 13:08
Re: Looking for a side MP3 player
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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You are a genius of web finding. Hopefully that will do the trick (it all depends on whether the devices will talk to each other). The small MP3 player acts as a mass storage device on a PC, so I'm hoping for the best.
While I was ordering, I also ordered some other rare adapters that I haven't seen anywhere but that site. Very nice! Thanks!
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Matt
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