#258137 - 13/06/2005 20:18
Fuel for Media Cynics
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Now if you go to today's CNN main page and click on the "Katie Holmes embracing Scientology" headline, what do you find remarkable?
edit: 'spose I could just be a big sport and include the URL!
Edited by jimhogan (13/06/2005 20:21)
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258138 - 13/06/2005 20:26
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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That my heart completely sinks?
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#258139 - 13/06/2005 20:31
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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That the poll says only 6% would change religion to data tom cruise ? This stupid quote Quote:
"Yeah, absolutely. She digs it," he tells the magazine.
Or maybe this one is sicker.
Quote:
The former Catholic and star of television's "Dawson's Creek" grew up with a poster of Cruise on her bedroom wall and has said she grew up wanting to marry him.
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#258140 - 13/06/2005 20:35
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
"Yeah, absolutely. She digs it,"
You suppose she knows about the alien warlord and the souls of ancient interstellar criminals inhabiting her body that cause all her mental distress yet?
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Bitt Faulk
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#258141 - 13/06/2005 20:35
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
That my heart completely sinks?
Now is that 'cos you'd like to expect more from Katie or expect more from CNN?
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258142 - 13/06/2005 20:38
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Katie. I'm not sure what you're talking about yet.
The pro-scientology ads? I don't really think that's a CNN problem so much as a Yahoo Ads problem.
Edited by wfaulk (13/06/2005 20:40)
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Bitt Faulk
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#258144 - 13/06/2005 20:45
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Man, I'm 0 for 2 today. I just knew this thread had to be about Michael Jackson . . .
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#258145 - 13/06/2005 20:46
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I didn't even notice the ads I must automatically ignore them now I guess.
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Matt
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#258146 - 13/06/2005 20:50
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I wonder if the targeted ads are done based on an automatic keyword search of the article, or if the person posting the article chooses what ads to put up.
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#258147 - 13/06/2005 20:54
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Katie. I'm not sure what you're talking about yet.
I'm not sure I would have clicked on the story save for the Scientology angle. My starting assumption is that any given Hollywood celeb could be a mindless cretin whether cute or not.
Quote:
The pro-scientology ads?
Now this *is* what I am talking about, cynicism-wise. That a supposed news organization can get to a place where the uncritically ditzy Tom/Katie coverage gets put up there not *only* with stupid "would you change religion" polls, but with 4-5 paid ads for the various agencies of the cult itself.
Quote:
I don't really think that's a CNN problem so much as a Yahoo Ads problem.
What proportion of people who visit this page can be expected to make any distinction between the CNN and Yahoo Ads elements?
I just think it is a bad place we've come to.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258148 - 13/06/2005 20:56
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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addict
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
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Quote:
what do you find remarkable?
That this horse doodie about actors and their pay as you go religion is considered news?
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Heather
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony
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#258149 - 13/06/2005 20:58
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I wonder if the targeted ads are done based on an automatic keyword search of the article, or if the person posting the article chooses what ads to put up.
I wondered that myself for a bit and am now asking myself whether I think that matters. I'm trying to think of an analogous situation (hmmm, no more Marlboro ads that could pop up if there was a story entitled "Lone researcher disputes negative health effects of cigarettes". What would be another example...?)
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258150 - 13/06/2005 21:05
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: Heather]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
That this horse doodie about actors and their pay as you go religion is considered news?
Why, Heather, if they didn't have Katie, Tom, and Jacko, they'd have to run *boring* stories about memoes to Tony Blair!
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258151 - 14/06/2005 00:07
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
Quote:
That this horse doodie about actors and their pay as you go religion is considered news?
Why, Heather, if they didn't have Katie, Tom, and Jacko, they'd have to run *boring* stories about memoes to Tony Blair!
Katie, Tom, Jacko, and a number of other famous people...
Google also yielded this little gem, lest we think that Scientologeny is the only go-to for famous folk's religionism.
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#258152 - 14/06/2005 01:31
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Google also yielded this little gem, lest we think that Scientologeny is the only go-to for famous folk's religionism.
I think it's kind of a neat list to read through, though naming authors like Oswald Chambers and Charles Spurgeon who are famouse BECAUSE of their Christian writings as famous Christians in literature is kind of silly. Though I suppose someone would complain if they were left off . . .
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#258153 - 14/06/2005 05:15
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Interesting, I see no ads (apart from several 'inhouse' ones, for some or other CNN service and Time subscription). Aha, a reload brings one for a bank, another one travel to Cyprus, and on the title page there are three separate ads for Nokia 7710... Perhaps because of my preference for 'international' flavour of the site or non-US IP?
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#258154 - 14/06/2005 06:10
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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veteran
Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
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Advertiser links are provided by Yahoo! Search Marketing through its Content Match product. Content Match pairs its listings with related content on CNN.com article pages and section fronts. The listings are determined by the relevancy of keywords, which advertisers bid on, to the content of the specific CNN.com page. For additional information on becoming an Yahoo! Search Marketing advertiser and to learn more about how business listings are distributed on CNN.com and other top Web sites, please visit Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Nothing new, just a computer grabbing the ads.
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#258155 - 14/06/2005 11:45
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
lest we think that Scientologeny is the only go-to for famous folk's religionism.
It's not so much that these people are following Scientology, but the fact that they are promoting Scientology to the masses, who are then just that much more likely to fall into their bilking schemes. People are free to believe whatever hogwash they want (and while I consider pretty much all deist religions hogwash, Scientology is in a whole different league), but when that "religion" not only charges to attend, but restricts information about the basic tenets of the religion (whether that's so that people can't just do it on their own or so that newbies don't immediately see how insane it is), that "religion" becomes highly suspect at best. Add on to that the damage they seem to cause to individuals (see Lisa McPherson, Jeremy Perkins, Albert Jaquier, or so many others, not to mention the people who were "only" bilked out of their life savings) and I cannot just let it be.
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#258156 - 14/06/2005 12:22
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Interesting, I see no ads (apart from several 'inhouse' ones, for some or other CNN service and Time subscription). Aha, a reload brings one for a bank, another one travel to Cyprus, and on the title page there are three separate ads for Nokia 7710... Perhaps because of my preference for 'international' flavour of the site or non-US IP?
I have never bothered to tweak any CNN (or Yahoo) settings that I recall, so I assume I am getting the "default". Yesterday, I would get 4-5 ads. This morning, when I hit that same story, I get just these two:
What is Scientology?
Ever wondered "What is Scientology?" Check out this site and find out for...
whatis.scientology.org
The Religion of Scientology
A very accurate description of the religion of Scientology is given herein,...
www.rtc.org
So maybe the number of ads reduce as the story ages?
I wonder what Chinese Katie Holmes fans see 
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258157 - 14/06/2005 12:26
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: Phoenix42]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Nothing new, just a computer grabbing the ads.
I decided that I couldn't find that comforting. It is the end result that I still find disagreeable. It seems inconceivable and fantastic, but imagine a different CNN puff piece on something like "No Child Left Behind" where the same algorithms produce paid links to "Up-With-People"-type Web sites covertly funded by the government. Now I know that sounds ridiculous....
'Twould be very convenient for CNN to say "just a computer". What's their take?
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258158 - 14/06/2005 12:35
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Scientology is in a whole different league
From the standpoint of secrecy and decitfulness, the only near-competitor I can think of would be the Moonies, but they seem to have diverted their energies into commerce "Oh, no we're not Moonies!" and never reached the aggressive heights of Scientology's truth control via copyright/IP.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258159 - 14/06/2005 12:37
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, the fact of the matter is that the CoS has probably pumped way more money into buying up those keywords than anyone else can do.
Are you suggesting that Yahoo should not accept that money? On what grounds? Would that mean that IBM wouldn't be allowed to buy IBM keywords? I mean, I'm not a big fan of the CoS or corporate personhood, but I don't think I want to see that sort of censorship, either. And they are ads after all. I suppose it would be nice if CNN pointed that out a little better, especially since it looks kinda like it could be a sidebar.
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#258160 - 14/06/2005 12:39
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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My uncle got into Scientology years ago and was taken for a LOT of money. He has serious mental problems now (the FBI-came-and-took-away-all-of-his-guns kind), but I don't know if any of that was caused by getting invovled in Scientology.
On a related note, this is the uncle who stayed with us two Christmases ago and when the air conditioning guy rang the door bell said, "If that's the FBI, don't tell them I'm here." And he was totally serious.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#258161 - 14/06/2005 12:43
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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That's almost exactly the kind of person they're looking for. When you add onto it that they are totally against any psychiatric treatment, and regularly "compensate" for it by prescribing vitamins ... well, draw your own conclusions.
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#258162 - 14/06/2005 12:50
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Well, the fact of the matter is that the CoS has probably pumped way more money into buying up those keywords than anyone else can do.
And if they have anything remotely approaching genius, their focus on owning the information territory of Scientology is it.
Quote:
Are you suggesting that Yahoo should not accept that money? On what grounds? Would that mean that IBM wouldn't be allowed to buy IBM keywords? I mean, I'm not a big fan of the CoS or corporate personhood, but I don't think I want to see that sort of censorship, either.
I'm not positively sure what I am suggesting. Other than getting swept away by the occasional (very nice!) wedding photo, I think I have maybe recently arrived at the conclusion that *everything* is borken, but have no suggestions on repair manual.
Quote:
And they are ads after all. I suppose it would be nice if CNN pointed that out a little better, especially since it looks kinda like it could be a sidebar.
This is in the realm of what concerns me. Any newspaper, say the Boston Globe, could suffer a lapse in judgement and publish an uncritical puff piece on Katie+CoS -- no examination of CoS background included. But could CoS then call the Globe and say "Hey, we want to run 5 ads next to your puff piece!"?
edit: or automatically cause 5 ads to be placed next to the puff piece?
Edited by jimhogan (14/06/2005 12:54)
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#258163 - 14/06/2005 12:55
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Or, perhaps more accurately, inside your puff piece.
I think that's the heart of the problem. (Well, outside the fact that this tripe should exist outside the pages of People and Us.) There needs to be a stronger delineation between story content and ad content. It's usually obvious in print media, but when it becomes less obvious, they tend to point it out, doing something like printing "ADVERTISING SECTION" over the top. But in this case, the ads look exactly like their (semi-)legitimate sidebar survey right below it, and there's no indication that it's advertising content other than the "What's This" link. At least, that link should be changed to read "Advertisements".
Edit: Oh, wait. It does say it there, but my AdBlock was killing the image(?!) that said "Advertiser Links".
Edited by wfaulk (14/06/2005 13:01)
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#258164 - 14/06/2005 13:11
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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If I recall correctly, the Scientologists maintain a special support infrastructure for movie stars and famous people, with the (entirely reasonable) theory that famous practitioners of the religion make for free advertising. As such, you can expect Ms. Holmes to be slathered in Scientology-branded love and foot massages. However, Mr. Cruz has recently demonstrated that he actually supports some of the weirder aspects of Scientology (particularly their anti-psychologist stance). This could lead in some interesting directions. Let's assume that Mr. Cruz and Ms. Holmes break up, which would seem altogether typical for "starlet" couples. Previously, you'd have to be "in the know" to be aware of Mr. Cruz's (or Mr. Travolta's) religious beliefs, but now it's openly discussed in an AP story, on Oprah, and elsewhere. This means that the post-breakup coverage will also likely discuss the relevancy of Scientology. Maybe, one of the reporters on the scene will actually get into the weirder aspects of the cult, interviewing ex-members, talking about "operating thetans" and all of that malarky. Should be fun, and could well cause lasting damage to Scientology if done right.
Meanwhile, for what it's worth, the only ads that made it through my AdBlocker were text ads referring to Dawson's Creek shwag.
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#258165 - 14/06/2005 13:54
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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All the weird-ass stuff is protected under corporate secrets laws, though, so the CoS has solid legal recourse to sue the pants off of people who distribute that information. I'm not saying that that's ethical -- religions should be open (at least the Masons don't largely go around suing people) -- but it's pretty solid legally. As such, I don't see any big-name news source trotting out that information out of fear of reprisal. I'm sure Julf could tell us all about that, assuming he's not under some sort of gag order.
Time already had a very negative cover story on Scientology back in 1991, and were sued by the CoS (dismissed a decade later). It didn't seem to do a lot of good. Maybe a different viewpoint or just a new story would help, though.
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#258166 - 14/06/2005 13:59
Re: Fuel for Media Cynics
[Re: wfaulk]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
I'm sure Julf could tell us all about that, assuming he's not under some sort of gag order.
No gag order here. I can definitely state that the CoS legally declares itself "A commercial company incorporated for the purposes of law as a church", and considers their teachings proprietary commercial secrets (and, of course, protected by copyright)
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