#262585 - 11/08/2005 13:00
Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Anyone see any reason why I wouldn't want to get this? It would be hanging on the wall above the gas fireplace (I'd watch out for thermal issues, don't worry, the house has other heat sources anyway). In addition to the good price and the 1080p resolution, the current deal on the thing also includes a free progressive scan DVD recorder/player and 15 percent off a mounting bracket and a stereo cabinet, all of which are items I need as well. Anyone got opinions on this?
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#262586 - 11/08/2005 13:05
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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None of the LCD based TVs that I have seen in shops have acceptable display quality. They all seem to have a muddy look to them, especially with fast motion.
They are probably all being fed from lousy video sources, but the CRT screens next to them fed from the same video sources have ok pictures.
Or perhaps I'm just being picky.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#262587 - 11/08/2005 13:11
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hm. I agree that this one has a lower contrast ratio than some of the others out there (600:1 as opposed to 1000:1 that I saw quoted for a different lower-rez panel). And its pixel response time is not given. Hm.
But... But... 1080p for only two grand....
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#262588 - 11/08/2005 13:23
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Mmm.. it says it has "DVI-HDCP" inputs, but doesn't mention DVI-D anywhere (for digital PC to monitor connections). I wonder if DVI-HDCP includes that capability?
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#262589 - 11/08/2005 13:31
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Dunno, but I won't be using it as a computer monitor. It'll just be getting the output from the high-def Tivo.
Hey. I should check to see if the tivo has digital outs. I've never had a TV with digital ins before.
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#262590 - 11/08/2005 13:31
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay, found a photo of the connector -- looks like the same thing, except the HDCP designation means it has built-in DRM for HD video as well as regular DVI-D capability.
Cheers
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#262591 - 11/08/2005 13:31
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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DVI-HDCP is DVI-D + DRM features and you should be able to just plug it straight into a DVI socket on your PC.
It's supposed to prevent you from snagging a digital copy of the signal because they encrypt it but bypass devices have already been released. If you plug a device which requires a HDCP display device into something which doesn't have HDCP then it will downgrade the output signal i.e. lower the resolution.
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#262592 - 11/08/2005 13:34
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Interesting. The Tivo has an HDMI output, but the television does not have an HDMI input. Glad you brought that up. I was just expecting to use the component cable, but now that you bring up the digital connection thing, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't have a TV that has the correct kind of digital input for the tivo.
Anyone got any flat-panel suggestions in the $2000.00 price range?
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#262593 - 11/08/2005 13:35
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Dunno, but I won't be using it as a computer monitor.
I thought you were also a gamer, dude! That screen is high enough rez for high-end gaming, as well as big/good enough for doing digital photo slideshows and the like.
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#262594 - 11/08/2005 13:36
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, well, I'd be occasionally plugging the PC into it, yeah. But not full time.
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#262595 - 11/08/2005 13:37
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Or perhaps I'm just being picky.
Not at all, with the exception of the £15k Hi-Def unit I saw at my mates shop, all plasmas and lcd's I've ever seen on display are absolutely shocking. I think my CRT set will be in place for a good few years yet.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#262596 - 11/08/2005 13:37
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Tony, I believe your Tivo came with an HDMI to DVI cable. That's how I installed it on my dad's setup.
_________________________
Matt
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#262597 - 11/08/2005 13:38
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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HDMI is DVI-D+HDCP+Audio+Control. You can buy cables to convert a DVI-D output into HDMI.
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#262598 - 11/08/2005 13:39
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Thanks, Dignan and TMan. That's good info.
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#262599 - 11/08/2005 13:41
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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It gets even more complicated  The original HDMI is Type A and that is only single link DVI. If you want to drive huge displays then you'll want HDMI Type B which has dual link DVI.
You should be fine with single link in this case however
Edited by tman (11/08/2005 13:45)
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#262601 - 11/08/2005 13:51
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Well, the HD Tivo in my situation is connected to a 60" RPLCDTV (I love acronyms). It looks gorgeous.
What resolution is it? Huge in this case is greater than about 2.6MP at 60Hz without GTF blanking.
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#262602 - 11/08/2005 13:54
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
The only thing I'd be concerned about, Tony, is the placement. Do you really want the TV over a fireplace? I'm sure heat is a concern, but I'm more concerned that it's a terrible way to actually watch it. Talk about neck strain!
Put your Lay-Z-Boy on stilts?
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#262603 - 11/08/2005 14:13
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I'm more concerned that it's a terrible way to actually watch it. Talk about neck strain!
It'll be fine, the fireplace is fairly low to the ground and it will be only a little ways above that.
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#262604 - 11/08/2005 14:17
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 24/10/2000
Posts: 106
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Anyone got any flat-panel suggestions in the $2000.00 price range?
I have a 42" Sony WEGA LCD projection. It's not one of those wall mountable panels but you could easily put it on a short wall shelf or swing arm. It's oh, probably about 8" thick, but it's quite light... light enough that one man can carry it fairly easy (I'm a little guy and I can pick it up no problem). It's bulky because of the size, though, and I wouldn't try putting it up on a shelf by myself.
I gave under 2 grand for it during a sale at Best Buy. I don't remember exactly what it was, but they price matched the video store down the street and threw in an Xbox on top of it, I remember getting out of there for under 2 grand including the nice glass stand I bought for it. It has HDMI, component, bunch of other inputs/outputs and does 1080p. When I sprung for the HD channels on comcast I was *shocked* at the quality of the picture and am anxiously awaiting HD football/hockey season heh. I'm not a super video bigot, but it's far and away good enough for the likes of me.
Bear in mind I replaced a 19" CRT that was almost 15 years old when I got this one, so just about anything would be an improvement
-- Gary F.
_________________________
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S/N #090000803
Tigger, 2nd Owner -- Mk IIa, 80 Gb, Blue
S/N #40103789
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#262605 - 11/08/2005 14:36
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Foz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
I have a 42" Sony WEGA LCD projection.
That's the same line as the 60" my dad bought. Aren't they wonderful? And I agree with you, I'm perfectly happy watching this, and don't think I'd notice any improvement over it, or at least nothing that would be in even the same ballpark in terms of price.
I still maintain that if you aren't going to mount your flat TV on a wall, there is simply no reason to spend the extra dough. I've seen a couple situations where people have placed these TVs on AV storage units that measure around 2.5' deep, which in my mind negates the whole space saving idea of a flat television.
I like the RPLCD units because I tend to want to keep my AV components out front with my TV, and most of these storage units tend to be just a little deeper than the TV.
Tony - that placement sounds OK, although I personally like the middle of the screen to be around eye level when sitting down. I'm just so used to watching "This Old House," and they'll talk about these "great home theaters" they're building, and they almost always put the TV so high that the bottom of it is around 4 feet off the ground!
_________________________
Matt
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#262606 - 11/08/2005 14:58
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Foz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I have a 42" Sony WEGA LCD projection. (...)
It has HDMI, component, bunch of other inputs/outputs and does 1080p.
No, it doesn't.
I haven't yet seen one of the LCD projectors that has a 1920x1080 panel resolution. It's downconverting it to something in the neighborhood of 1024x768.
The reason I'm excited about a 1920x1080 LCD panel is: No downconversion, only upconversion, and only for some channels.
Prove me wrong, give me a model number of that WEGA.
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#262607 - 11/08/2005 15:05
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Well shoot, spoil our fun  Like I said, I'm perfectly happy with it, and try getting a 60" LCD 1080i monitor from a reputable company that even nearly matches the price.
_________________________
Matt
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#262608 - 11/08/2005 15:11
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I was actually darn happy with my Mitsubishi 1080i CRT rear-projector, but that's not coming to Seattle... And wouldn't fit in the new place anyway.
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#262609 - 11/08/2005 15:42
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 24/10/2000
Posts: 106
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Well, I'm at work right now and can't give you the model number, but finding the one that I *think* it is on the sony website does say it's 1080i not p. I should be spanked, flogged, and sent to bed without any beer.
Shoot me now. Please mind the drapes... they're new.
It's a damned fine television none the less, and I'm quite pleased with it. The resolution is 1366x768 according to the sony website.
You may climb back out of my neck now. :P
-- Gary F.
_________________________
Eeyore, Original Owner -- Mk II 80 Gb, Blue
S/N #090000803
Tigger, 2nd Owner -- Mk IIa, 80 Gb, Blue
S/N #40103789
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#262610 - 11/08/2005 16:01
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Foz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
but finding the one that I *think* it is on the sony website does say it's 1080i not p.
(...)
The resolution is 1366x768 according to the sony website.
Exactly my point. Whether it's 1080i or 1080p, my point is that's one of the INPUT SIGNALS IT WILL ACCEPT, not the resolution of the display. It's not your fault that the marketing materials don't make that clear. Sorry to have climed down your neck.
The resolution of the display is 768, not 1080. That means downconversion to 768.
My big deal about this westinghouse monitor is that it's a native panel resolution of 1080, meaning no downconversion. Meaning I can see the puck on HDNET hockey games that much better.
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#262611 - 11/08/2005 16:37
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
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I remember reading a forum (AVS?) about some guy using one of these as a computer monitor. His face is about a foot away from it and plays world of warcraft. Everyone on the forum thought he was nuts for sitting too close to the monitor, but he thought it was perfectly fine.
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#262612 - 11/08/2005 16:39
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Folsom]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm seeing a lot of people on forums and such who use it as a computer monitor. Seems like it would be well-suited to the task.
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#262613 - 11/08/2005 16:43
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Folsom]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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I use a 30" wallmounted LCD as a monitor and it works great. I'm probably about 3 feet away from the screen most of the time. I don't think I could go back to standard sized monitors.
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#262615 - 16/08/2005 18:56
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a 42" Sony WEGA LCD projection. (...)
It has HDMI, component, bunch of other inputs/outputs and does 1080p.
No, it doesn't.
I haven't yet seen one of the LCD projectors that has a 1920x1080 panel resolution.
Well, they exist now
I'm a little disappointed by the styling, though. It's already a pet peeve of mine that these giant screens come with speakers at all, but to place them on the sides and then, on a new model, stick them out even more, is just annoying.
_________________________
Matt
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#262616 - 16/08/2005 22:17
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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This is not a flame, but a good honest question that I have not been able to figure out for years: Quote:
I'm seeing a lot of people on forums and such who use it as a computer monitor. Seems like it would be well-suited to the task.
I can't see how anyone would use a >40" LCD TV as a computer monitor because of its low resolution. I run 1600 x 1200 on a 21" CRT. For comparison, let's pretend its 16:9, thus a resolution of 2133 x 1200.
I don't understand how 1920 x 1080 can look so super when its less resolution than my typical desktop computer monitor. And the real problem is, that's 1920 x 1080 stretched over a 40" or 60" TV. Those pixels must be huge! How can it be so sharp as a TV, let alone a computer monitor?
"Well, have you ever seen one?" No, I haven't. I guess I should. But I can't imagine that it looks good without sitting 10 feet away. Why not get a 24" widescreen monitor and sit 2 feet away? Seems the same to me.
My next monitor will be the IBM T221 come hell or high water. Dual DVI in to power the 3840 x 2400 in a 22.2" 16:10 widescreen? I don't care if I sit with my nose touching it (which I just may) because that's some nice picture!
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#262617 - 17/08/2005 05:04
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
I can't see how anyone would use a >40" LCD TV as a computer monitor because of its low resolution. I run 1600 x 1200 on a 21" CRT. For comparison, let's pretend its 16:9, thus a resolution of 2133 x 1200.
I don't understand how 1920 x 1080 can look so super when its less resolution than my typical desktop computer monitor. And the real problem is, that's 1920 x 1080 stretched over a 40" or 60" TV. Those pixels must be huge! How can it be so sharp as a TV, let alone a computer monitor?
Perhaps people keep it at some distance? I am sure they are useful for some web surfing while lounging on a sofa...
Anyway, I think you (and I) need this (which, I seem to remember, has already been mentioned on this board, as virtually anything else interesting in the world) 
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#262618 - 17/08/2005 05:43
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
I don't understand how 1920 x 1080 can look so super when its less resolution than my typical desktop computer monitor. And the real problem is, that's 1920 x 1080 stretched over a 40" or 60" TV. Those pixels must be huge! How can it be so sharp as a TV, let alone a computer monitor?
I take it that you don't know that good old NTSC based TV (i.e. non-HD) has a massive 640 x 480 "pixels" ? So a 1920 x 1080 screen has way more resolution than a non-HD TV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#262620 - 17/08/2005 11:47
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Frankly, I've gone to a lower resolution for day to day tasks. I ran at 1600x1200 on my 19" monitor for about 4 years, but now I'm down to about 1280x1024, I believe. If I'm using certain programs like DVDlab or Paint Shop Pro, I'll bump it up to get more desktop space. Otherwise I've been much happier.
I'm a complete ho for resolution. At work I use 1600x1200 each on a pair of 19ins (one CRT, one LCD), at home 1920x1440 on a 21in CRT. The home monitor has recently been making nasty clicky noises, and I'm dreading the day it breaks, because nobody makes 21in 0.22mm-pitch monitors any more, nobody makes 1920x1440 or above LCDs except at ludicrous prices, I don't have the room for two 1600x1200 landscape, and nobody makes cards that do 1200x1600 portrait with open-source drivers except unaccelerated.
Peter
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#262621 - 17/08/2005 12:54
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The Viewsonic G810 and G220f seem to fit your needs, I think, or at least come very close.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#262622 - 17/08/2005 22:03
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: andy]
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journeyman
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Anyway, I think you (and I) need this (which, I seem to remember, has already been mentioned on this board, as virtually anything else interesting in the world)
That looks very cool. But they forfeit a huge amount of credibility for not understanding the difference between "brake" and "break".
Edit: And then they lose what's left with their broken links. Don't think I'd trust a company who can't get a web site done right to sell me something that expensive and support-critical. Where is the pricing, and contact links? There's something not quite right about that site.
Edited by davekirk (17/08/2005 22:24)
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#262623 - 17/08/2005 22:34
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I can't see how anyone would use a >40" LCD TV as a computer monitor because of its low resolution.
The size is nice to be able to sit at a distance, say, reclined on a nice sofa with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to work on. I don't do anything serious on my HDTV with the computer, but I do play many games on it. Sure, I could sit with my nose to my 20 inch widescreen LCD in the office to game, but it's just not the same. Nice confy sofa, or an office chair?
Plus for multiplayer games (more prominant on consoles, but they do exist for the PC), a large screen like an HDTV is very nice.
Besides, most operating systems scale resolutions horribly anyhow. I'd much rather have a lower resolution on a 60 inch TV so I can read it at a distance then be forced to deal with the not so great DPI scaling in both Windows and OS X.
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#262624 - 19/08/2005 01:23
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
a massive 640 x 480
Dignan: Yes, when I first heard that I was very surprised. But I assumed the analog nature of CRT televisions helped smooth out the picture. What I wonder is: when I watch a DVD (16:9) on my 1600x1200 (4:3) monitor, is the image hurt because it's not the native DVD resolution (720 x 480?), or does it look better because it's a higher resolution?
Quote:
nice to be able to sit at a distance, say, reclined on a nice sofa
drakino: I once considered mounting an LCD panel on a long, multi jointed swing arm, mounted to a table next to my couch. That way I could sit on the couch with the keyboard and mouse, but swing the monitor to 1.5 feet in front of my face as usual. The trick would be getting some kind of reverse-KVM where I could use either the couch keyboard/video/mouse or the setup at my desk for the same computer. Maybe wireless keyboard/mouse with dual video cards sending duplicate images to desk and couch?
Too bad I pulled the plug on the whole idea (and the third display: the ceiling mounted projector pointing at the drop down screen) because I'm broke like the Windows 2000 Plug and Play service (and have been at work way too long fixing it).
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#262625 - 19/08/2005 21:11
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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This one seems to be a better deal, however I didn't check every last spec. Matthew
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#262626 - 22/08/2005 07:54
Re: Flat panel HDTV with 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Thanks for that link, Matthew. Looks like there's going to be a small spurt of TVs from various brands sporting that 37" 1920x1080 LCD panel. Must be a new panel coming out of some particular fab plant.
I ended up ordering the one I linked at the top of the page because it had some good bundle deals at the time (free DVD player for example), but then Best Buy completely fsked me on the order. Claimed they couldn't verify my credit card information, then couldn't transfer me to anyone who could actually help me straighten it out. After two days solid of trying to get them to resolve my problem on the phone, I instead hung up and resolved never to purchase from Best Buy again.
So, needing a TV and needing it "now"-ish, I went to Circuit City and picked up a 32 inch TV with a lower resolution (768 lines) for a lot less money. I'm more or less happy with the 32 inch unit for now, but if I feel like being adventurous later I'll see if I can buy one of the 1080-line TVs.
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