Hi there,

first of all, thats the first black NewNewFace...



And with flash:



Now the problem:



The holes for the screws have to be drilled from outside and are closed by welding. Anodizing the handle will leave this ugly spots, cause the welded areas are not taking the anodizing the same way than the pure aluminium.

Does anybody good in metalworks know a solution?

The only solution i can think of at the moment is to leave the holes open. Ugly, too, but not as ugly as the grey spots.
BTW, this happens with clear anodizing too.

There is a new knob in development, the rest is ready to sell.

Comments?

cheers,
Thomas

I know this may sound somewhat ridiculous, but maybe just touch it up with a sharpie?

I mean...it's on the side of the handle....who'll notice?

Yeah, thought about it, but it's just not the perfect thing. Am i too german???

Outstanding, Thomas! Wow!

As for the holes, leave them open, at least until after anodizing. Then, either you or the purchaser, might choose to fill them with black expoxy, which can be wiped smooth/flush to the metal. Should look just fine -- a few black dots on closer inspection is all.

cheers

Whoa! Nice work. Leaving the holes open is a reasonable solution, seems like it would look fine.

-Mike

I really like the look of the NewFace in black. When do you think they might be available?

Beautiful face!

It's a real shame about the annodizing, though. There is a solution.

Your welding shop is using the wrong filler rod. They must try for a better match of the base material. This is a very common problem- meaning that even the welders don't know what's going on.
Your parts are likely to be 6061 (a very common alloy).
Most shops weld with either 4043 or 5356 welding rod.
4043 flows better and is easier to make a nice looking weld with, because the major alloying constituent is silicon.
5356 has got some small amount of magnesium in it and makes a stronger weld.
6061 is an alloy containing both silicon and magnesium.
I can't remember all the details, but it's worth a little more research.
I learned about this a long time ago- about 15 years.

At any rate, welding the 6061 with one or the other filler ends up giving you very bad results after annodizing.
Sorry, I can't remember which is which... whether it's the magnesium that's oxidizing differently or the silicon.
Ask your shop which filler they use and suggest they try the other.
They might not be so organized as to know which they used- or have only one on hand but not the other.

A poor reply from a welding engineer, but I haven't been in that field for a while now.

I agree with Mark, leave them open.

Can you get black screws that small???

Cheers

Cris.

PS - Looks great!!!!!

Yeah I think leaving them open would look fine. In my car you can't see the sides of handles anyway.

That face is so totally hot!

I'd just like to say that that looks unbelievable. The original NewFace's were nice as well but for some reason this black one looks particularly clean. Stellar job.

I my self have never been a big fan of the newface's but that does look good.. Great work...

H - O - T

OMFG! AOL! That looks fantastic! I agree with others about leaving the holes open -- if you can find black screws, it would carry over the bolt theme from the front quite nicely. If we could get the funky buttons from the 2A to go with that, I'd be all over it like spandex on a fat person.

Or... do they make allen bolts similar to those that hold the fascia on the front in that small of a size? that would be good lookin'.

But the screw head will be on the inside. Unless you can figure out how to screw in a screw from the outside just as filler and still have there be enough room for the interior screw to do its job.

What about lighted buttons?

So they are being drilled thru from the outside because it's easer that way.

1) If after tapping the holes a shallow counterbore was put in the outside, then a short plug could be pressed into the hole. After the final mechanical finish there would be a small circle visible.

2) Just making the counter bore would clean up what would have been the ragged edge of the threaded hole. It dosen't have to be deep, a thread or two.

This is a beautiful "stealth mode" new face.
While the welding spots is the problem, I agree with gbeer about plugs, hey, if the welding spots could make perfect circles, that'll be also acceptable.
It is possible to hack these buttons and the knob using fiberoptic wire, but it would be a lot better to have translucent buttons for this mode. I cannot make out from the pictures whether Firefox's translucent knob will go there, but this aluminum knob sure looks impressive. Is it possible to have ridges on the side of the knob?

Hi,

thanks for the commendation.
There also are some good ideas, which i'll have to discuss with my friend at the shop.
I like the idea of the little allen bolts, if there is enough space left for the screws holding the handle from the inner side... I'll check this out.

I'll provide a set of the clear farnell buttons for the lighted players. So it's up to you to fill them with the color of your choice. Mach has some good experiences with that. The original knob won't fit, it isn't deep enough and also the wrong diameter, i think. The knob on the photo is one of Tim (303), i plan to have a knurled area for better grip and the shaft in a little smaller diameter to make a halo-effect and also prevent the knob from sticking in the fascia. The little holes will stay, so light will come through them, too, especially if you fill them with fiber rods.

The start of sale depends on my friend. As said earlier, the costs are about 200 Euros, including fascia, handle, black and clear buttons, knob and screws/bolts.
Colors available are black, brushed alu, silk-smooth alu, and all colors you can anodize, like red, green, blue, gold, but we have only the first three as samples made.
I'll try to bring up pictures of the brushed and silk ones, although it's hard to see the structure in the photos.
Polished may be an alternative, depends on the demand. It's handwork and may cost a little more.

I now need an idea of the demand, so i start a thread in the for sale forum. Please tell me your interest and the color you want there, leave discussions and ideas here in this thread.

cheers,
Thomas

Another item about welding aluminum. You do not want to weld on 6061-T6 aluminum. Espically near those tapped holes. It is an excellent way to loose the heat treat and thus most of the strength of the 6061-T6 aluminum. Tensile strength drops from around 60kpsi down to around 10kpsi.

That makes it easy to strip the threads.

If you are set on welding you might try getting an aluminum in the 5000 series. It dose not rely on heat treat for it's strength.

BTW: About the plugs, I looked at my original handle, the screws only go about half way thru the handle. Plenty of space to install a pressed in plug.

Have not talked to my friend yet, but came around to shoot some more pictures.

The brushed one in different light conditions:







Brushed vs. silk-smooth: (not very good to see in the pictures, but an imagination...)





And the welding spots on the clear anodizing:



I think, the brush-effect should be a little stronger, we'll try with the next run.
Welding seems to be out of the race, they have only these materials.
But perhaps filling bigger holes with just the heads of little allen bolts could look really nice.

cheers,
Thomas

Those look great... I agree with the rest of the group and say either leave the holes open or use tiny little bolts if you absolutely must.

My Empeg is being installed in my new car this very moment. I can't wait for these new(new!)faces to be available for sale!

They all look so good, the decision is difficult. Will I ever have a metallic dash? And if so, which finish will match? But hey, black anodized will work for now.

Do you think you can have package type deal discounts?

I would most likely get one in black
Excellent job!

Man



Thats just perfect.

Yeah, I'd dip into the coffers for some of that. Beautiful.

Great work and a nice update - I am in for a silky

Those are perfect. Any idea about when there ready for sale?

I want one:) What's the timeframe for sales.

Hi, i'm just back from the UK and havn't talked to my friend yet. But i hope to get a web site online for ordering in about 2 or 3 weeks. I want to get this going before christmas...
There will be batches of 10 pieces, cause we can do them only at night, when the machines are free. So watch out for an announcement...

The screws in the original empeg handle are self tapping. If you can't get around drilling right through the new handle when you make it, you at least don't have to tap the holes. This leaves a smaller, tidier hole on the outside of the handle. The only thing is that the end user has to be careful when inserting the screws for the first time - they will be quite tight!

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I don't see any screws in the handle on the original faceplate? In fact it seems like putting screws there would keep the handle from moving...

Regardless I'd most likely be interested in a black one. They look awesome! Don't know if I'll be able to afford them before end of year though, so hopefully there will be more than one batch

Don't have mine in front of me, but look on the inside of the handle, I believe the handle is screwed to the spring arm?

Yep, it's screwed from the inner side, and cause the original handle is die-cast, there are no holes from outside needed.
Derek, the holes will be small at the outside, even if we cut the thread. Leaving this to the customer may end in worn out threads from the beginning, cause you need a good feeling with the material, if you cut the thread with the screws, not to use too much force on it.

And yes, there will be more batches than one, don't worry. But it'll take time.

I wonder what's the status of this project?

I'll pass on part of an answer on behalf of Thomas.

He and his g/f Tanja visited me not so long ago, and he showed me the current state of play. The big issue is the quality of finishing of the hinge holes as has been previously discussed.

Since then, Thomas has moved house and is currently waiting for a broadband connection, so I suspect you might have to be a little patient before he replies.

Rest assured though - they are going to be made.

Any NewNewFace status update?

Uh....

Quote:
I'll pass on part of an answer on behalf of Thomas.

He and his g/f Tanja visited me not so long ago, and he showed me the current state of play. The big issue is the quality of finishing of the hinge holes as has been previously discussed.

Since then, Thomas has moved house and is currently waiting for a broadband connection, so I suspect you might have to be a little patient before he replies.

Rest assured though - they are going to be made.

Too slow!

I was wondering if there was an update on the status of the newface???

Yeah, I want 2. what's up?

He's busy with:

- new g/f
- new job
- new house
- various other issues.

Don't worry - it's not forgotton - it's just on the back burner. I have seen the stuff, it's good gear, and nearly ready to go. Be patient a little longer.

Finally, a question that's not a status nag!

Is the depth of this faceplate going to be identical to the original one? I'm going to be installing the empeg in my TSX when it gets here, and I'll eventually want the new black face, but I need to know if this will be a consideration when installing (it's also going to be my first DIY install so I am maybe a little paranoid here).

Sorry guys for being away such a long time...

No, the project isn't doomed and didn't vanish in the hell of empeg-add-ons...

As Rob said, i've been very busy with work, moved to a new house, together with my girlfriend, which is a very time-consuming task for itself (ikea-visits every now and then) and i'm still waiting for a properly working DSL-line in my house. The Telekom doesn't get it into a stable state.
Reading the board and posting at my job isn't as easy than the time before, my boss can look at my screen, cause i have got a new place in the office.

The other thing why there was no update is, my friends company, where the faces are made, is totally overloaded with work, so he doesn't get access to the machines at the moment. As soon as there is a chance to make some, he will jump in.

Enough excuses...

@jpt: the NewNewFace is thicker than the original fascia, it's even a little thicker than the NewFace from Tim (303). Thats because of the handle. This way it's strong enough to allow to carry the player with it.

No more news for now. Stay tuned...

Cool.

(This thread kept showing up as having unread posts for me. This post will hopefully prevent that.)

(This thread kept showing up as having unread posts for me. This post will hopefully prevent that.)

Hmmm.... me too. Now it really will have an unread post for you to read.

tanstaafl.

We are still tuned, I guess...

Things are going on. Slowly, but still going... Please, be patient a little more...

cheers,
Thomas

thanks for the update, any news is good news.

Still no NewNewNews?

I hoped, to have some ready at the meet, but my friend didn't got the time. I'm so sorry to say please wait a (hopefully) little longer.

Just bumping the topic...

Anything new on this front?

These are so cool, beautifully designed.. I guess the other option to cover those spots maybe could be black chrome plating.the whole thing ...I keep hearing about that lately , I think it's popular in rim design now....it gives a shiny black surface..
Great Job

are we getting anywhere here?

Almost a year later, should we still be in the waiting mode or the project is unofficially dead?

I haven't heard a peep out of Thomas in the last year.

It's sad that slowly but surely the old crowd is disappearing from the BBS.

Yet, however, new people still join... after nine years. Good stuff.