#269941 - 17/11/2005 12:06
Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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From the NYTimes:
Quote:
Still, some providers recognize that many TiVo owners are reluctant to give up their machines. So, next year, Comcast, in conjunction with Motorola, plans to release a set-top box with a DVR that includes TiVo software.
Does anybody know anything more about this? It sure sounds interesting.
-Zeke
Edit: A touch of Google turned up this link.
Edited by Ezekiel (17/11/2005 13:22)
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#269942 - 17/11/2005 16:21
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I think that pretty much sums up how much of the deal is understood in public. This whole thing came together after the original TiVo management was ousted (among other things, for loosing the DirecTV deal) and the new management came in to make some deals. One amusing question is whether TiVo's going to make much money on the deal. Another perhaps more relevant question, is whether ComcastTivo's will be as brain damaged as DirecTiVo's, with respect to not supporting TiVoToGo, the Home Media Option, and so forth.
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#269943 - 17/11/2005 16:32
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Yeah, that's pretty much all we've known since March. I would find it very suprising if their Tivos did everything a standalone does, which makes me wonder why I'd want to buy one...
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Matt
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#269944 - 17/11/2005 19:19
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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The article I linked to certainly seemed to say the Tivo-to-go would be supported, and yes I noticed that it was announced in March. I don't remember hearing about it (although I'm sure someone will dig me up a thread on this bbs- I never followed the tivo vs directivo vs whatever threads).
I guess I like Tivo functionality, but I have no brand loyalty. If Comcast gives me Tivo functionality, I'll get it and drop Tivo. If they give me a hobbled version, I'll stick with the original. I sure would like to be able to Tivo high def shows (I'm not willing to move from cable).
Long term though, I don't see how Tivo competes with cable co. boxes (assuming their software evolves). The box I have is pretty easy to navigate and the on-demand works pretty well. I guess I'm not familiar with Tivo's patent portfolio, which would seem to be their only defence against the cable beasts.
While Comshaft's not perfect, neither's Tivo, their music streaming leaves a lot to be desired. It chokes (crashing the server-side software) if I try to shuffle play my whole collection (a mere 7000 or so songs). Pathetic for software on release 2.
-Zeke
Edited by Ezekiel (17/11/2005 19:21)
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WWFSMD?
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#269945 - 17/11/2005 22:41
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I hope this happens maybe mediacom would get it too since they have motorola stuff now.
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Matt
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#269946 - 17/11/2005 22:46
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Faulting Tivo for their music streaming service is sort of nitpicking. Clearly you've had more experience with alternate DVRs than I have, so I can't comment on how they compare, but IMO (and many other people's...O), nothing beats Tivo in terms of UI.
I and many others are eagerly awaiting a day when Tivo will switch to a software company. I can't really think of building my own HTPC without a Tivo interface. Either Tivo's going to do it, or they're going to go out of business, and someone will write a knockoff skin/theme for MythTV or WinMCE.
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Matt
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#269947 - 18/11/2005 00:09
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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The SageTV software looks pretty close to having the same features as the Tivo but I doubt it could be a reliable.
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Matt
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#269948 - 18/11/2005 00:22
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I completely agree about wanting Tivo to be a software company. I'd pay a subscription to add a Tivo app to any HTPC out there. As far as the music side goes, I'm pretty spoiled when it comes to killer little boxes doing everything imainable.  I'm also bitter about the music thing because I was one of the dumb people who paid for that option for 8 months before they gave it to everyone for free. Paying to be a beta tester wasn't what I had in mind. The server software is not very good either, it crashes on a good 1/3 of reboots on a machine with decent specs (2.8Ghz P4, 1Gig Ram, intel mobo). I don't have a lot of experience with other STB's just the few I've had through Comcast, the latest of which is pretty sophisticated - video on demand, reminders and what appears to be the interface for DVR functions, although I don't have a drive in my box. The best function is that it changes channels really fast (my old box was deathly slow). I just like the idea of Tivo with my regular Comcast box, less wiring & complexity. -Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#269949 - 18/11/2005 12:45
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
I just like the idea of Tivo with my regular Comcast box, less wiring & complexity.
-Zeke
If they can make it as seamless as the DirecTV/Tivo boxes, you'll love it. Especially if you get :"lossless" encoding for digital (the signal would never be converted to analogue and back to digital) and dual tuners.
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Brad B.
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#269950 - 18/11/2005 13:55
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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My only problem with TiVo is that it can be deathly slow sometimes. Sometimes I can tell it to record a show and then go make a sandwich before it's ready again. Anyone with the HDDirecTiVo have the same problem? I'm trying to decide if my drive might be dying.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269951 - 18/11/2005 14:34
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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No, I think that's the Tivo. My parents have the HD Tivo, and depending on exactly what you're doing it takes forever to set up a recording. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, either. Setting up a half hour standard def program can take three minutes, and setting up a hi-def football game can go through immediately.
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Matt
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#269952 - 18/11/2005 14:38
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Mine is also deathly slow. If they built one using faster PC parts, it would cost more money, but would work much, much better. The idea of TiVo-on-HTPC is pretty interesting, given that TiVo is just running Linux under the hood. Combine that with Microsoft's announcement that next-genration HTPCs will support CableCARD, and you could have an interesting market opportunity for TiVo. If they can only survive that long.
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#269953 - 18/11/2005 15:07
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
My only problem with TiVo is that it can be deathly slow sometimes. Sometimes I can tell it to record a show and then go make a sandwich before it's ready again. Anyone with the HDDirecTiVo have the same problem? I'm trying to decide if my drive might be dying.
Yep, that's just the way it is. If you aren't having other problems then it's unlikely your drive is bad. You can speed it up by not having the live buffers on HD stations. The music stations are the best as then the buffer isn't recording at all and it frees up resources on the machine to access it's database.
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#269954 - 18/11/2005 15:08
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
My only problem with TiVo is that it can be deathly slow sometimes. Sometimes I can tell it to record a show and then go make a sandwich before it's ready again. Anyone with the HDDirecTiVo have the same problem? I'm trying to decide if my drive might be dying.
Yep, that's just the way it is. If you aren't having other problems then it's unlikely your drive is bad. You can speed it up by not having the live buffer on a HD station. The music stations are the best as then the buffer isn't recording at all and it frees up resources on the machine to access it's database.
Great tip! I'll try that!
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Matt
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#269955 - 18/11/2005 15:31
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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I remember on the SA TiVo's if you change to a channel you don't receive it would double the extraction speed. I've never really had anymenu slowdown on the TiVo.
I have two of the Comcast HDTV Dual Tuner DVR's and I would say it SUCKS. The unit connected to the receiver has to be restarted every time we use it or we don't get Dolby 5.0 output. The responce time on the remote is RANDOM and it queues the requests. Making a series Recording is easy for me but annoying.
I can't wait to have TiVo software on an HDTV cablebox and if TiVo releases a CableCard HDTV TiVo I will buy one.
I'm willing to pay 25 dollars a month for TiVo software that I can run on any PC.
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Chad
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#269956 - 18/11/2005 16:34
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
The responce time on the remote is RANDOM and it queues the requests.
Ouch! That would drive me nuts. Occasionally the Tivo is a little slow to go from screen to screen, but I've learned where it queues commands from the remote and where it doesn't, because it at least does it consistently.
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Matt
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#269957 - 18/11/2005 16:56
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
The responce time on the remote is RANDOM and it queues the requests.
Ouch! That would drive me nuts.
It does drive me nuts. I only use the DVR's to record movies on HDTV and a few Network TV shows (Alias, Lost, ER and soon 24). I watch the other network shows on my TiVo because I like the UI, Remote and system responce better.
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#269958 - 18/11/2005 18:04
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
My only problem with TiVo is that it can be deathly slow sometimes.... Anyone with the HDDirecTiVo have the same problem?
Yes, the HD DirecTivo is exactly as slow as my regular Tivo was in that respect.
Supposedly, the recent software upgrade that the Series 2 DirecTivo owners got (the one that gave them the folders) was supposed to improve speed somewhat. Unfortunately the HD unit's didn't get that software upgrade. So we're still waiting.
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#269959 - 18/11/2005 18:32
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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My HDDirecTiVo seems way slower than my old DirecTiVo. Actually, I think it may be so slow that it occasionally fails to start a recording on time and I miss the first minute or so.
Edited by wfaulk (18/11/2005 18:38)
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Bitt Faulk
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#269961 - 18/11/2005 18:58
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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No, I mean a long-established Season Pass and it'll only manage to record the last 59 minutes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269962 - 18/11/2005 19:02
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
No, I mean a long-established Season Pass and it'll only manage to record the last 59 minutes.
Oh! Wow! I was indeed misunderstanding you. That's a little stranger, and I know I haven't seen that happen to me.
Now that I know that part, I can say no, this Tivo is not as slow as yours. It's slow when it's dealing with recordings, but not when it's performing its automated tasks, like time recording. Sorry to hear that.
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Matt
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#269963 - 18/11/2005 19:04
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, *THAT* is a problem, I've never had that happen to me.
The only time I get a long wait is when I'm adding a new season pass or modifying an existing one so that it's gotta go sift through its database and re-prioritize. The more season passes I have on the box, the slower it operates during database scrapes.
Unless you've got a mind-boggling number of season passes and items in there, I would be suspicious of something wrong. It should never miss the first minute of a show unless the show genuinely started a minute too early.
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#269964 - 18/11/2005 19:15
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
No, I mean a long-established Season Pass and it'll only manage to record the last 59 minutes.
I've never heard anyone else say that before. How many Season Passes and Auto Recording Wish-Lists do you have?
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Chad
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#269965 - 18/11/2005 19:32
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I dunno. A few dozen, with only like 2 of those being autorecord wishlists.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269966 - 18/11/2005 19:50
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
I dunno. A few dozen, with only like 2 of those being autorecord wishlists.
From what I remember people started complaining around 30 and above 50 it would get really bad. You might need to do a clear & delete everything. Also do you let it record Suggestions?
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Chad
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#269967 - 18/11/2005 19:55
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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But I don't want to delete everything. I do let it record suggestions.
I'll check to see if there are any extraneous season passes I can lose.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269968 - 18/11/2005 20:15
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Tony, this is probably a silly question, but does the cachecard work for S2 DirecTivos? Didn't it help this issue?
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Matt
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#269969 - 18/11/2005 20:29
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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No cachecard for S2, but 6.2 made the DirecTivos MUCH faster.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#269970 - 18/11/2005 22:26
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
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Quote:
No, I mean a long-established Season Pass and it'll only manage to record the last 59 minutes.
I can't offer any help, but I can at least tell you I've seen this problem several times myself, exactly as you describe it. I have 370GB, about 45 season passes, and do record suggestions. Just another data point...
edit
Oh yeah, it's a Series 2 DirecTivo with 6.2, hacked six ways from Sunday.
Edited by adavidw (18/11/2005 22:29)
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-Aaron
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#269971 - 19/11/2005 00:14
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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No, I mean a long-established Season Pass and it'll only manage to record the last 59 minutes.
Clarify, please. Is the recording itself only 59 minutes long instead of the expected 60 minutes? If it is in fact the full 60 minutes, then in all likelihood the broadcaster started the program a minute early. That is, the show was scheduled to start at 8pm and actually started at 7:59pm. Tivo, of course, started recording at 8pm just as it was supposed to do.
NBC network (I think it was NBC) a couple of years ago thought they'd be clever and scheduled some of their shows to begin a minute before the hour, on the theory that they would lock people in a minute earlier and they wouldn't surf around the other channels looking for something better. That meant that for TiVo users, NBCs "early-start" show had to compete not just against the 8pm shows, but also against the 7pm shows as well. NBC discontinued that policy after a lot of people complained, but in my case it was too late. I had already deleted every season pass from my TiVo that had an early start time, and I have never, ever watched any of those shows again, even though NBC discontinued the practice.
As for your stations (perhaps) starting shows a minute early sometimes... I'll trade you TV stations any time. Here in Alaska, all the network programming is time-shifted, which means that the local TV stations can play the shows any time they like, which means they put in extra commercials and start the programs late -- as much as six to eight minutes late quite frequently. So now when I start to watch a show on my TiVo, the first thing I do is click to the end of the show, and if there aren't credits rolling, I delete the show without watching it. Probably 25% of everything I record gets deleted that way.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#269972 - 19/11/2005 00:33
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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No, it's clearly one-hour shows, properly scheduled, for which it's failing to record the first minute or so. It hasn't happened in a while, but I seem to remember that it actually marks it as "partial" on the, uh, details screen.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269973 - 19/11/2005 16:17
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
No, it's clearly one-hour shows, properly scheduled, for which it's failing to record the first minute or so. It hasn't happened in a while, but I seem to remember that it actually marks it as "partial" on the, uh, details screen.
It's a known problem. The recordings start based on the broadcast time for the channel the tuner is currently set to. Needless to say, if the time (and the shows) on the channel you want to record is running a bit early...
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Glenn
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#269974 - 19/11/2005 17:53
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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No, he's saying he knows it's specifically NOT that problem. The schedule says to record from 8 to 9, but the unit is only getting the show from 8:01 to 9, with the first minute missing and the show info saying that the recording is "partial".
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#269975 - 21/11/2005 13:40
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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~ John
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#269976 - 21/11/2005 15:11
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Interesting. I've heard that TivoToGo is a little spotty, but this could put a bit of a cramp in selling TV shows through the iTunes store. It just narrows the number of people willing to pay $2 for a show they could see or record to a DVR for free.
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Matt
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#269977 - 21/11/2005 20:06
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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In fact, the most recent episode of Prison Break it only managed to record the last 34 minutes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269978 - 21/11/2005 20:08
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
In fact, the most recent episode of Prison Break it only managed to record the last 34 minutes.
Try turning off suggestions and see if that helps any.
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Chad
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#269979 - 21/11/2005 20:24
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Can do. Is the issue the simple fact that suggestions are on, or is it that the recordings take up so much space?
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Bitt Faulk
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#269980 - 21/11/2005 20:40
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Is the issue the simple fact that suggestions are on, or is it that the recordings take up so much space?
Suggestions are supposed to be the first to get cleared off to free disk space, so I think he means that the processing that's being done to grab suggestions is making the other processes sluggish.
Personally, I don't buy it. The suggestions wouldn't be the culprit. I'd bet if it was anything you did (and there shouldn't BE anything you CAN do to cause this, but whatever), I'd guess it was too many season passes and/or autorecord wishlists.
I just know that my player behaves OK with a relatively small number of season passes and wish lists, with suggestions turned on.
If reducing the number of season passes doesn't fix this behavior, I'd start to suspect hardware trouble.
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#269981 - 21/11/2005 20:51
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I didn't mean to suggest that suggestion recordings were taking precedence somehow, but that a completely full drive (which is what happens when you leave suggestions on and don't clear them out would accomplish) might cause the TiVo to be sluggish. I do remember that upgrading the hard drive on my older DirecTiVo caused everything to slow down significantly.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269982 - 22/11/2005 00:16
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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I'd guess it was too many season passes and/or autorecord wishlists.
Doubtful.
I routinely run my TiVo with 50 or more season passes, and I have never had any problems like you describe.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#269983 - 22/11/2005 00:19
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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a completely full drive ... might cause the TiVo to be sluggish.
No.
Before TiVo starts a recording, it checks to see that there is enough hard drive space available to record the program at whatever quality settings you have specified.
If there is not enough room, it does not do the recording at all, and posts a messgae to that effect in the "To Do List".
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#269984 - 22/11/2005 01:05
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Did you go thru every station and thumbs up and down all the shows on the stations you watch? If you did this it could be working hard on getting you suggestions or it could even be recording HDTV and that is causing other things to slow down.
Since I just had this (F###ing power company) happen. Do you have your DirectTiVo on a UPS? My UPS didn't outlast the power outage tonight and when the power came back on the TiVo started recording shows from the middle. It doesn't say anywhere in the history of why it didn't start on time.
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Chad
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#269985 - 22/11/2005 02:35
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: Attack]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yeah, I've had that happen, but I know that it didn't happen this time, because my alpha-sort option was still on. When the power goes (or it reboots for any reason) I have to reenter the special code. Good guess, though.
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Bitt Faulk
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#269986 - 22/11/2005 02:39
Re: Tivo + Comcast + Motorola
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Argh. Okay, people, I've had a TiVo since the Series 1 units. I know how it's supposed to work.
You're not following me. I'm not suggesting that it didn't record it because it didn't have enough space, but the fact that the drive is 99% full might have an effect on the speed of the system in general.
I wouldn't have expected it to be 30 minutes slow, but I can totally believe that there is some slowness issue that is causing it to start recordings a little bit late. When it can sometimes take a minute for it to go back to the Main Menu, I can believe that it might have as much trouble getting around to start recording on time.
Oh, another issue is that it hasn't been plugged up to a phone line in months.
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Bitt Faulk
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