#270740 - 28/11/2005 00:57
PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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I suppose I could verify this myself once I get the player back in the car with the new setup but the answer will theoretically affect my wiring so I'm asking to get a heads up.
I recently had one of the digital soundboards fitted to my Rio car and the sound is amazing. I'm particularly looking forward to using the optical out in the car with my new processors and amp as it should be fairly impervious to electrical interference.
But I'm hazarding a guess here that I will need an RCA connection to get sound from the tuner?
If that's not the case, I'm, laughing, but if it is, will there be any problem connecting RCA and optical at the same time and how will the player know which output to use for MP3s if both are connected?
Paul
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Rio MKIIa
Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270741 - 28/11/2005 06:21
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the audio from the tuner is digitised and passed through the DSP along with the player output. So you won't need a separate connection to hear the tuner.
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#270742 - 28/11/2005 10:07
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the audio from the tuner is digitised and passed through the DSP along with the player output. So you won't need a separate connection to hear the tuner.
[edit]Nope. I was wrong.[/edit]
Edited by tman (28/11/2005 13:25)
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#270743 - 28/11/2005 13:06
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Tuner and player audio unfortunately do not follow the same path within the DSP. The tuner audio is not present on the inputs to the soundcard (digital outputs of the DSP). We've verified this several times. This is a disappointment, but that's just how the DSP is set up. If you need to listen to the tuner, you will have to connect to the analog RCA outputs on your sled or rear outputs on the unit itself.
Hope this helps,
Stu
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#270744 - 28/11/2005 15:06
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Ahh.. So the Digital-Out board must be using the DSP_OUT[12] pins then, which do not carry the FM audio -- those pins are used for other purposes by the DSP chip when in FM mode -- I wonder what happens to the digital out board then?
It also appears that all digital audio is available on the IS_OUT[12] pins, including FM. I wonder if those are currently in-use for the CS4232?
cheers
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#270745 - 28/11/2005 20:03
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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Cheers guys, at least I know. It shouldn't be a big problem. I can choose which source (analog or digital) to use on the sound processor. It will just make removing the player from the sled a bit harder as I removed the RCA inputs (and the mic and the serial) from the sled in anticipation of (a) going digital and (b) trying to simplify the harness a bit.. You live and learn eh !!!
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Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270746 - 28/11/2005 20:07
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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Eh up ... wait a minute. My soundcard has all three digital outputs including coaxial. Coaxial is good for both analog and digital isn't it? It must be I use coaxial on my DVD player and I get sound through it for my VCDs and they aren't digital.
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Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270747 - 28/11/2005 20:43
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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VCDs are digital, the coax link on your DVD player only carries digital signals.
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#270748 - 28/11/2005 20:57
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: andy]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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So why won't a VCD play through an optical connection?
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Rio MKIIa
Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270749 - 28/11/2005 20:58
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Because your DVD player is crazy?
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#270750 - 29/11/2005 00:02
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: wfaulk]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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Quote:
Because your DVD player is crazy?
No ... I am. I'm sorry, I stand corrected. It appears the 'problem' with getting sound from a VCD over a digital cable whether optical or coaxial is ensuring that the player can decode PCM as against bitstream.
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Rio MKIIa
Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270751 - 29/11/2005 18:08
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Do you mean on the 7705? I don't recognise this pin designation. I'm interested!
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#270752 - 29/11/2005 18:34
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Do you mean on the 7705?
Yes, pins 34,35 apparently have full digital-out capability. Dunno if they're already in use for something else, though. And the bit format may need some massaging for any specific application.
Cheers
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#270753 - 29/11/2005 19:22
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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IIS_OUT1 (Pin 34 of the 7705) is the standard pin for the digital out cards. IIS_OUT2 (Pin 35) is unused, but available on the mainboard at the last header hole next to the other signals for I2S used by the digital sound card. If I remember correctly, IIS_OUT2 does not contain any audio unless enabled in software. I think Shonky had programmed it to contain subwoofer output. So maybe it is possible with some coding to get full range sound including the tuner by just relocating one wire.
Anyone care to try?
Stu
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#270754 - 29/11/2005 21:16
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Actually, it appears that all input sources should be available already on pin-34.
But the DSP manual does suggest that an internal register has to be programmed differently for FM vs. the rest.
Can anyone with a Digital-Out board listen to AM (not FM, but AM) radio over the digital outputs? That should work already, if I'm reading this document correctly. (note to self: reference page 61 of DSP manual). EDIT: If somebody could please try/verify this, I might then be able to "fix" the FM issue in Hijack, so that FM radio also works with digital out
Cheers
-ml
Edited by mlord (30/11/2005 12:34)
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#270755 - 30/11/2005 09:39
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Without looking at any documents and completely from memory, I would have said it was sub only. I had to do some funky maths for the sub roll offs so I guess it's possible to make a filter with no roll off at all (i.e. full pass instead of low pass)
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#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#270756 - 30/11/2005 12:43
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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We don't have any assembled tuners at the moment, but I do recall trying AM and got nothing out of the digital outputs.
Stu
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#270757 - 30/11/2005 17:19
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: maczrool]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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Yeah,
It was a pain rigging my tuner and RIO Car up right now since it isn't in the car but seeing as I started all this, I made the effort !!!
1040 KHz AM got Meatloaf on Analog ... sorry don't know what song (I'm not a great Meatloaf fan ... other than a few of the classics) ...
Digital ... zip / nothing ... not even static (and there's plenty of that)
Sorry !!!
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Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270758 - 30/11/2005 17:21
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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new poster
Registered: 13/11/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Hong Kong
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Oh and maczrool ... is that Stu from Eutronix?
If so, I am Paul from Hong Kong and I owe you for that other tuner ... it's coming in the next two to three days.
Paul.
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Rio MKIIa
Long term Empeg user; newbie to the forums !!!
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#270759 - 30/11/2005 17:28
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Hi Paul,
Yes same guy!
Thanks,
Stu
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#270760 - 30/11/2005 20:05
Re: PCATS tuner, digital or analog?
[Re: bad]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
It was a pain rigging my tuner and RIO Car up right now since it isn't in the car but seeing as I started all this, I made the effort !!!
..
Digital ... zip / nothing ... not even static (and there's plenty of that)
Okay, that would be because of the attached code fragment (below) from empeg_mixer.c in the kernel. Simple enough to change -- does anyone have any idea why only "mpeg" mode normally has digital out (aka "I2S out")?
I'll spin a special version of Hijack with this "fixed", and we'll see if it breaks anything else.
Stand by..
void empeg_mixer_select_input(int input)
{
static dsp_setup fm_setup[]=
{ { 0xfff, 0x5323 },
....
{ 0xff9, 0x0020 }, /* no I2S out */
{ 0xff3, 0x0000 },
{ 0,0 } };
static dsp_setup am_setup[]=
{ { 0xfff, 0xd223 },
...
{ 0xff9, 0x0000 }, /* no I2S out */
{ 0xff3, 0x0000 },
{ 0,0 } };
static dsp_setup mpeg_setup[]=
{ { 0xfff, 0xd223 },
...
{ 0xff9, 0x1240 }, /* I2S input */
{ 0xff3, 0x0000 },
{ 0,0 } };
// Auxillary is on CD Analogue input
static dsp_setup aux_setup[] =
{ { 0xfff, 0xd223 }, /*DCS_ConTRol*/
...
{ 0xff9, 0x0000 }, /*HOST*/ /* no I2S out */
{ 0xff3, 0x0000 }, /*RDS_CONTROL*/
{ 0,0 } };
Edited by mlord (30/11/2005 20:36)
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#270761 - 30/11/2005 20:16
Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'll spin a special version of Hijack with this "fixed", and we'll see if it breaks anything else.
Hijack v443 is now released, and should have digital audio output for all modes now.
-ml
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#270762 - 01/12/2005 00:32
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Wow! I can't say whether tuners work in this setup, but my AUX IN now comes out of the digital outs! Excellent work Mark!
Great job,
Stu
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#270763 - 01/12/2005 03:23
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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enthusiast
Registered: 16/02/2001
Posts: 373
Loc: Switzerland
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Hi Mark,
Looks for me like a Christmas gift. It was a long time on my wishlist. I think since Amersfoort 2003. (Sorry, time is going fast, but not so fast. Since 2004)
Thanks a lot 
Edited by crazymelki (01/12/2005 03:59)
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#270764 - 02/12/2005 12:44
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: maczrool]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Wow! I can't say whether tuners work in this setup, but my AUX IN now comes out of the digital outs! Excellent work Mark!
The config for the Aux-in being sent out the digital-out uses 44.1KHz as the sample rate. But the FM tuner output can only use 38KHz. Will that still be compatible with the dig-out board?
Cheers
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#270765 - 05/12/2005 12:34
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Hi Mark,
I missed that one. The datasheet to the CS8405A used in the card says the master clock must be 256x the sample rate. The 44.1 kHz normally used by the Empeg is, but 38 kHz is not. We will have a tuner finished later in the week to see for sure. It may be that it sounds funny or that no sound emerges at all.
We'll see,
Stu
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#270766 - 07/12/2005 15:32
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: maczrool]
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enthusiast
Registered: 16/02/2001
Posts: 373
Loc: Switzerland
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Hi Stu,
I did a cupple of tests, but my tuner does not work over the optical interface...it works over the analog (conventional) port.
AUX works so far fine.
Wondering if your works.
bye
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#270767 - 07/12/2005 16:09
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: crazymelki]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14494
Loc: Canada
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Does AM radio work?
The DSP datasheet is unclear to me, but it seems as if AM radio *can* be made to work (EDIT: probably not, now that I've read through it all again), perhaps. Definitely not FM, though, unless the Digital-Out board is modified.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (07/12/2005 16:16)
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#270768 - 07/12/2005 16:13
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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We are building a tuner now. Will have it finished later in the week. I don't think the CS8405 can be used with a 38 kHz sample rate and 11.2896 mHz clock. The CS8420 may work. We have a test board configured with one. I don't remember it still works or not. We'll see when the tuner gets built.
Stu
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#270769 - 07/12/2005 16:21
Re: Hijack v443
[Re: mlord]
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enthusiast
Registered: 16/02/2001
Posts: 373
Loc: Switzerland
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Hi Mark, I did not test AM radio, because the pumping sounds comes form FM...  Let me try this out. bye
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