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#275277 - 30/01/2006 21:23 Death rattle of drive
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
If a virgin laptop drive spins but you don't hear the familiar scratchings does that necessarily mean it's dead?
I am attempting to replace a dieing/dead original drive in the Empeg w/another but it seems dead as well. I know it's NOT the IDE header or cable for another works in it's place. I attempted to put the builder upgrade on the new drive, continue to get a 'bad pump response' error. This happened from the start. If I get a laptop to IDE adapter for my WinXP PC would that tell me anything about it being defective? How does one truly know a hard drive is bad when it's new?
Another odd thing is the original dieing/dead drive gave me the same errors even though it worked before I ran the builder upgrade, I wasn't concerned w/the data on it being lost but it seems strange that it won't respond either. I thought it would give me a little more time out of it. Of course I can't test on any other drives as they are keepers. So what I have is a potentially dead new drive & old drive that doesn't respond to the 'builder upgrade'. Does this make any sense?


Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 21:25)

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#275278 - 30/01/2006 21:37 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
StigOE
addict

Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
Quote:
... old drive that doesn't respond to the 'builder upgrade...
Remember if the drive is already built that you need to have the Empeg connected up to the serial so you can press Enter somewhere in the process (as per the Empeg FAQ under Step 6 - Formatting the new drive)...

Stig

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#275279 - 30/01/2006 21:47 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
I don't think it ever got built. The builder wizard never gets to where I thought it was finished. The builder upgrade wizard sits dead at selecting pump device until I guess it times out w/the error of 'bad pump response'. I can't get Hyperterminal to connect because the upgrade file is using the connection, I think.


Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 21:48)

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#275280 - 30/01/2006 22:40 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
I would suspect serial port issues or other technical issues with the player hardware before assuming two dead drives in a row.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#275281 - 30/01/2006 23:14 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tfabris]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
The serial port seems to work fine otherwise though I wouldn't think 2 drives would go either, but to be fair one was suspected bad & the other was new & never tried so I thought maybe it's possible. I can communicate w/the player & get a bash prompt. I have also tried this (builder upgrade w/both of my players a Mk2 & a Mk2a mostly w/the 2a. Now I must say at this point that the 2a had a 2beta13 running on it initially (I thought all along it was loaded w/2 final-I don't use it much) I quickly put a ver. 2 final on it & tried some more.


Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 23:16)

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#275282 - 31/01/2006 01:19 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tfabris]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Is it possible I did something w/the first drive (new) somewhere. I mean can you apply the builder partially or wrong, if the serial didn't work at that particular time as you stated Tony. If so what could be done to rectify the situation? Anything I can try before I send the drive back?
If the drive sounds like it's spinning, i.e. slight buzz & vibrating slightly, but it doesn't scratch is it dead?

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#275283 - 31/01/2006 14:34 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I mean can you apply the builder partially or wrong

Yes. If you don't follow the instructions exactly and get hyperterminal working at the right moment, you might miss the "disk appears to be already built" prompt and not be able to press the Enter key at the correct moment to make it format the disk properly.

Quote:
Anything I can try before I send the drive back?

Triple and quadruple-check every single possible known failure mode listed here. For example, I don't recall you saying anything about the serial boot up messages related to the CS4231A chip. How do we know it's good?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#275284 - 31/01/2006 21:26 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tfabris]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
I don't recall you saying anything about the serial boot up messages related to the CS4231A chip

I just couldn't believe it wouyld happen on 2 players so I didn't really check that, but I will. I also figured the player would be bad in another way if the chip WAS bad. Everything else in the FAQ was followed except for that part & passed w/no hitches.
I'll check it now.

Quote:
you might miss the "disk appears to be already built" prompt

That's just it it never said that, I don't think it reaches near that step it flashes the ram then tries to select pump & times out w/error, I watched every step carefully each time. There are a few steps in between 'flash' & 'selecting pump' but they flash by so fast you can't see what they say.


Edited by Snowshoe (31/01/2006 21:32)

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#275285 - 31/01/2006 22:31 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
OK here's the serial output on the chip

empeg display initialised.5:59ad.cpp: 180:@@ #37d0
empeg dsp audio initialisedError -4 occurred at disk p
empeg dsp mixer initialised
empeg dsp initialisedhread.cpp: 180:@@ #37
empeg audio-in initialised, CS4231A revision a0
serial_notify_thread.cpp: 180:@@
empeg single channel IDE 0:05:59 Comm
serial_
Probing primary interface...d0 0:05:59
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive ff 3f 3f ff 3f a0 00y_thread.cpp: 1
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive: 180:@@ #37d0 0:05:59e290 0:01:31
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive
serial_n

If something looks strange about a drive it's because one of them wasn't connected when this was done. There's is an error mentioned "error -4 occurred at disk p" not sure what this means.
I'm not sure what this means as far as the chip being good or bad, would it say bad after the name?

OK- from searching I take it's good, sigh of relief now on to other tries.


Edited by Snowshoe (31/01/2006 22:36)

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#275286 - 31/01/2006 23:16 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Firstly, the reason why your serial log is so jumbled is that Hyperterminal is crap. It is a terrible app and the only redeeming feature is that it is bundled with most versions of Windows.

"Error -4 occurred at disk p" isn't from the default empeg software. Have you been running smartctl? smartctl will print out errors along the lines of "Error <blah> occurred at disk power-on lifetime: "

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#275287 - 31/01/2006 23:54 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tman]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Have you been running smartctl?

Yes I did run it on the drive that particular serial capture came from.

In the FAQ the disk builder instructions say when the wizard if finished start Hyperterminal. At what point is it finished, I tried to start the .ht profile as soon as it was finished 'Programming Flash (Kernal)' and Hyperterminal complains that another device is using the connection. I've also tried starting the profile as soon as the static logo appears on the screen & get the same response. I've never really seen the player reboot as it does while being regular mode is this normal?
At what point does the builder upgrade file release the connection so Hyperterminal can begin formatting?

Is there a better program to use besides Hyperterminal?
Edited-Is HyperAccess any better?


Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 00:34)

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#275288 - 01/02/2006 00:51 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Does the disk that's being formatted have to be on a particular side of the IDE cable (L/R)?
Per FAQ:
Quote:
If you want to stress test the second disk, you must swap it into the primary drive slot

or is this talking about the drive jumper?

I know, I'm grasping at straws right? I'm just looking for a solution. I've literally swapped drives & players (Mk2&Mk2a) around all night. It can't be an issue w/cables (used 2 different ones & they work when used for playing files), so the IDE headers must work too. The old drive mentioned in an earlier post, when used to play files, wasn't harmed by the builder wizard for it worked when syncing w/Emplode. Except for the complaint of playlists missing but a subsequent sync fixxed that after a database rebuilding. The builder file, I guess isn't corrupt (D/L w/GetRight).
I'm stumped


Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 02:18)

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#275289 - 01/02/2006 07:04 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
StigOE
addict

Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
Since we know that there have been problems using the disk builder, have you tried building the disk manually?

Stig

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#275290 - 01/02/2006 07:08 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
It means jumper the drive to primary. It doesn't matter which position you put the drives on the cable as it doesn't have cable select.

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#275291 - 01/02/2006 07:13 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
Since we know that there have been problems using the disk builder, have you tried building the disk manually?

The problems with the disk builder image from what I've gathered are for large drives only i.e. > 60GB. I've used the disk builder successfully with a 60GB drive and didn't need to do anything special.

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#275292 - 01/02/2006 07:15 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
At what point does the builder upgrade file release the connection so Hyperterminal can begin formatting?

The builder image actually replaces software on the empeg which you then have to restart. Apply the image and when it is completely finished and exits you should start up your terminal app and then unplug/replug the empeg. Don't try to use the serial port when the firmware utility is still running.

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#275293 - 01/02/2006 20:52 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
No t yet but I might try it. I glanced at the procedure.

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#275294 - 01/02/2006 20:53 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tman]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
That's what I thought but had to ask.

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#275295 - 01/02/2006 21:22 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: tman]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Apply the image and when it is completely finished & exits...

See this is what I'm stumbling on, the builder doesn't finish. I get a 'bad pump response error 0x25' after it sits there idle for awhile.

Here's exactly what the upgrade wizard goes through step by step maybe it will help explain:

1)Erasing flash (Boot loader)
2)Programming flash (Boot loader)
3)Erasing flash (Kernel)
4)Programming flash (Kernel)
5)Find pump (preparing first disk)
6)Waiting for pump [this goes very quickly]
7)Selecting pump device [this is where it sits there for several minutes w/no progress on bar]
8)Error "bad pump response" occurred during stage 0x25
[at the bottom are buttons for <back/finish/close]
The static logo will sit on screen until I unplug it. If I plug it back in I get the same staic logo for a few seconds then the dreaded No hard disk found Contact support.
Does any of help?

I tried another hard drive that already had some music on it, I get the same results using the builder wizard. Strangely when I reapplied the developer image to the player & synced it w/Emplode the music files were pretty much unharmed except the playlists were munged a bit, another sync solved that.


Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 21:27)

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#275296 - 02/02/2006 15:20 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
Are you using a dock of some kind?

--Nathan

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#275297 - 03/02/2006 00:58 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Mataglap]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
No, home AC.

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#275298 - 03/02/2006 13:11 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
It looks like from the instructions on the manual build version I would need to be able to get a bash prompt is this correct?
If so I'm screwed for I can't reached this point on the disk. Is there any other ways?

My ? now would be is it possible that the first time I attempted to use the builder wizard that it/I did a partial job & now the disk is toasted?


Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 13:13)

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#275299 - 03/02/2006 13:49 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

Sorry - it has been a busy week at the office, so I haven't been paying attention.

Can you recap your exact status?

You have 1 or 2 new drives...
What is their capacity?
What model empeg do you have?
What is the status of the drives relative to running builder or attempting manual builds?
Do you have a working / reliable serial link?

It might be possible to step you through from there.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#275300 - 03/02/2006 14:42 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: pgrzelak]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Hello I appreciate the response, luckily I have a backup player or I think I be going nuts right now
Quote:
You have 1 or 2 new drives...

Trying to build 1 new drive 40G Hitachi Travelstar.
Quote:
What model empeg do you have?

Tried on both a Empeg & Rio branded player as well as different cables that were known to work when using players normally.
Quote:
What is the status of the drives relative to running builder or attempting manual builds?


Brand new drive. I had tried an existing drive (empeg software/music) loaded that I knew worked but didn't mind if the builder fryed it, just to see if there was something wrong w/the new drive. After trying to use the builder on it I reinstalled developer w/same drive & synced it to Emplode. The playlists were mangled a bit after re-syncing once more they were fine. Seems like the builder didn't do anything? I'm not sure.
Quote:
Do you have a working / reliable serial link?

Yes, I can reach a bash prompt using an existing (playlists/developer v2.0 installed on it) drive in same spot player. I can also get output via serial port while the builder is on player but unresponsive to my commands.
If this helps here's the serial output I get when connecting to Empeg after a unplug/plugin after the builder wizard has had a go at building disk and returned the error -"bad pump response" occurred during stage 0x25.

#======================= Connected 10:39 AM 2/3/2006 =========================#


empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 ([email protected])
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!

e000 v1.04
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
Uncompressing Linux..................................... done, booting the kerne
l.
Linux version 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg49 ([email protected]) (gcc versi
on 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #130 Mon Oct 22 18:52:07 BST 2001
Processor: Intel StrongARM-1100 revision 11
NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.94.1 (c) 1998 Corel Computer Corp.
empeg-car player (hardware revision 7, serial number 90000695)
Command line: mem=12m
Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS
Memory: 10968k/12M available (964k code, 20k reserved, 332k data, 4k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 2048 (order 2, 16k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 16384 (order 4, 64k)
Page cache hash table entries: 4096 (order 2, 16k)
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
TCP: Hash tables configured (ehash 16384 bhash 16384)
IrDA (tm) Protocols for Linux-2.2 (Dag Brattli)
Linux-IrDA: IrCOMM protocol ( revision:Tue May 18 03:11:39 1999 )
ircomm_tty: virtual tty driver for IrCOMM ( revision:Wed May 26 00:49:11 1999 )
Starting kswapd v 1.5
SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS01 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS02 at 0xf8030000 (irq = 16) is a SA1100 UART
Signature is 20706d65 'emp '
empeg display initialised.
empeg dsp audio initialised
empeg dsp mixer initialised
empeg dsp initialised
empeg audio-in initialised, CS4231A revision a0
empeg remote control/panel button initialised.
empeg usb initialised, PDIUSBD12 id 1012
empeg state support initialised 0089/88c1 (save to d0005b80).
empeg RDS driver initialised
empeg power-pic driver initialised (first boot)
RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size
empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
Probing primary interface...
empeg-flash driver initialized
smc chip id/revision 0x3349
smc9194.c:v0.12 03/06/96 by Erik Stahlman ([email protected])

SMC9194: SMC91C94(r:9) at 0x4008000 IRQ:7 INTF:TP MEM:6144b MAC 00:02:d7:12:02:b
7
RAMDISK: ext2 filesystem found at block 0
RAMDISK: Loading 320 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
EXT2-fs warning: checktime reached, running e2fsck is recommended
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
empeg-pump v0.03 (19980601)
Press Ctrl-A to enter pump...VFS: Cannot open root device 03:05
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:05


Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 15:07)

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#275301 - 03/02/2006 14:56 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
StigOE
addict

Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
If you have one Empeg with one drive with developer image, then just install the new drive as a secondary drive. Then you shouldn't have any problems getting a bash prompt and can follow the instructions for a manual build...

Stig

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#275302 - 03/02/2006 15:07 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
That won't fry the existing disk when the new one is formatted?

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#275303 - 03/02/2006 15:14 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: StigOE]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
I had actually thought about that but was afraid the loaded drive would get zapped/fryed also, in the process.

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#275304 - 03/02/2006 15:36 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: Snowshoe]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Actually, if you have a fully functional boot drive (already built), you should install the second drive and NOT user the builder image. Boot into the empeg developer version and partition and then format the second drive manually. The links in these steps assume just this configuration - a fully functioning boot drive and the addition of a second drive.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#275305 - 03/02/2006 15:39 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: pgrzelak]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
OK, I'll try it now, thanks.

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#275306 - 03/02/2006 17:34 Re: Death rattle of drive [Re: pgrzelak]
Snowshoe
new poster

Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
Ughhhh I haven't begun the process of partitioning the new drive for now I have a hangup getting serial to connect to the original master drive, when it worked before it's either dead now or I don't know what.
Using the manual method can an existing master drive come from another player or is there a way to use the manual method w/only the new drive?
The reason I ask is now the drive that was working as the master, the drive that the new drive is going to replace in the player I want to add the new drive to, isn't responding to Emplode. Only the original slave is working but Emplode crashes when checking the media for I think the master is failing.
This thing is really getting frustrating. I guess I only have a working slave drive.


Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 18:44)

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