#276583 - 01/03/2006 02:58
new Intel-based Mac Mini
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Fully loaded, with 2GB of RAM and a 120GB disk, a universal DVD burner, and nice touches like gigabit Ethernet and S/PDIF audio out, it's still only $1300 or so. Is this the ultimate home theater PC?
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#276584 - 01/03/2006 03:06
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Definitely NOT the ultimate home theater PC. If you mean utimately small, perhaps. Which is neither good nor bad I suppose. It really depends on how you want to fit the system into your home theater and how you plan to arrange your storage. 120GB is not nearly enough for anything beyond a marginal interest in home theater/video. $1300? Everything except the extra 1.5GB of memory and larger disk comes standard in the new Mini at $799. It's a $500 premium for those two things? Wow.
Since the machine goes so well with the software I'm developing, I'll probably pick one up sooner or later - though I still wish they were a little cheaper. The lower end system is about the same price as the previous model once you factor in the new extras (WiFi & BT standard).
Too bad the onboard graphics suck soo bad. I mean, the ATI 9200 in the old model was nothing to cheer about, but this is not much of an upgrade (slower in a number of tests according to Apple in fact). With an X1600 in there the system would be a lot sweeter. Though even with the slower subsystem, it should be plenty of pixel power for video and audio playback, especially when much of the previous bottleneck was CPU-based video decoding power.
Get your HDs and memory from third party vendors if you don't mind cracking the case open yourself.
Bruno
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#276585 - 01/03/2006 04:04
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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I'm tempted, but without a good DVR solution it just isn't enough for the price. I havn't looked into third party osx DVR solutions, but one integrated into front row would certainly be nice. Of course, they'd probably need to add some buttons to the remote, and steve's so proud of his five button remote that probably isn't going to happen.
That said, they're great little desktop machines. With the upgrade they're certainly a lot more price competitive with a dell box.
Matthew
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#276586 - 01/03/2006 04:15
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, Apple has not yet seen the Intel chips be cheaper than the PowerPC chips, which is unfortunate. But I imagine that the system runs cooler. Not that that's such a big deal for the Mini, as opposed to the laptops, where it is. I imagine that the move to the Intel chips on the Minis is just a result of being a closely related architecture to the laptops. The additional memory is probably just to hide the additional cost.
That said, I can't imagine anyone having a homebrew home theater PC actually keeping the data on the direct-attached storage on that PC. At the very least, it's difficult to upgrade and back up. You can also easily reach a maximum amount of storage, whereas remote filesystems can be expanded indefinitely. Also, more direct-attached storage means more heat. So I don't see smallish hard drives being a concern. Although, it probably is the largest laptop hard drive available.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#276587 - 01/03/2006 04:19
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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One thing the Mac Mini does really well is that it is a very quiet and small system for driving a TV. I have the PowerPC one attached to my DLP TV, and unless it is spinning a disc full speed when initially inserted, it is otherwise not noticeable. It's one big reason I gave up on the XBMC and also XBox 360 media solutions.
I do admit though, I haven't replaced my ReplayTV with it though. Automatic commercial skip is still a big feature for me, and the ReplayTV still does that well. The Mini is used for MP3s, DVDs, playback of internet videos, and lastly video podcasts.
The new unit interests me because it can have a Core Duo chip in it, meaning it should be able to do higher then 480p H.264 unlike the PowerPC Mini. It also has the 5.1 output built in, has gigabit ethernet, and Front Row without hacks. They are shipping a new version of Front Row on it that supports the iTunes sharing of music and videos, so storage locally is no longer a huge issue. I already run mt-daapd on my music server, and it should hopefully be a small change to have it also do video. Though currently Front Row works fine following a symlink in the Movies folder to a network share.
The graphics chip is kinda disappointing, but it seems to be an upgrade above the 9200 slightly. For the cost and size of the system, I guess it is a good choice. Memory upgrades now will be cheeper, since it's using 2 memory slots instead of just one.
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#276588 - 01/03/2006 07:24
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I have to say I am very tempted, in fact the Credit Card did come out at one point  My current PowerPC mini is a little under powered now I think, iPhoto is quite slow and editing in Final Cut Express HD is also not very good. I put this down to the slow 4200rpm HD, so I was think if upgrading that and putting the old 80Gb into the empeg. It's all the comments about the intel gfx card that are putting me off. I have never really had an issue with their cards in the past, I never play games so as long as the desktop works well I'm fine. But I get the feeling Apple may change this in the future revisions of the mini, I wouldn't want to be stuck with intel gfx when everyone else has moved on. I find the 9200 one of the biggest bottle necks in the system I have, it doesn't do a very good job of running my Dell 2005fpw (no ripples etc...)  On the memory front, isn't it using laptop memory modules? If so I think we are already looking at the hardware for the new MacBook's so maybe Apple know what they are doing ??? I guess I will have to buy one and see, has anyone ordered one yet? Cheers Cris.
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#276589 - 01/03/2006 09:50
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
They are shipping a new version of Front Row on it that supports the iTunes sharing of music and videos, so storage locally is no longer a huge issue. I already run mt-daapd on my music server, and it should hopefully be a small change to have it also do video.
Yeah, I'm very much thinking of getting one for just that. What would be great (partly because of its size and lack of PCI, partly because of where the aerial is in my particular house) would be if, in conjunction with some kind of hack to mt-daapd, it could play DVB-T TV stations off a DVB-T card in a PC upstairs.
Or actually if it could just run a MythTV frontend using the Apple remote control. That would be good enough, whether on MacOS or Linux. Can you drive MythTV with just a 5-button remote, or do you need a wireless keyboard?
Peter
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#276590 - 01/03/2006 10:04
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
It's a $500 premium for those two things? Wow.
All of a sudden I don't feel so bad about my original mac-mini. When I saw the press releases, I was kind of sick. I don't know why since I only use it casually (except for Photoshop).
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#276591 - 01/03/2006 12:02
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: blitz]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
When I saw the press releases, I was kind of sick
I was mostly sick about the "iPod Hifi." I'd love to see someone here defend that thing.
_________________________
Matt
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#276592 - 01/03/2006 12:09
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
I was mostly sick about the "iPod Hifi." I'd love to see someone here defend that thing.
Well.. umm.. at least ours is a lot more macho
Rob
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#276593 - 01/03/2006 12:12
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
With an X1600 in there the system would be a lot sweeter.
And then it could double as a desktop coffee warmer, too, but the required turbofans would spoil the atomosphere somewhat.
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#276594 - 01/03/2006 12:17
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
When I saw the press releases, I was kind of sick
I was mostly sick about the "iPod Hifi." I'd love to see someone here defend that thing.
What about the iPod leather case? It is interesting how they show it with a Nano being inserted the correct way up...
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#276595 - 01/03/2006 15:59
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The Mac Mini that I bought in August was only 700.00 if I recall correctly. What does the more-expensive Intel version do that the current one can't? Here's a specific question: Can it play the HD Gallery videos from the apple site here without frameskipping?
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#276596 - 01/03/2006 16:10
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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The new Mac Mini appeals to me for several reasons: - radically faster CPU (although it's a good question whether it can play 1080i/60 or 1080p/24 video -- that would be a deal-breaker for me if it couldn't) - gigabit Ethernet (to talk to my RAID box, replacing my current Apple G4 Tower) - built-in WiFi (if I wanted to drop one into my home theater) The pricing is definitely twisted. Has anybody priced out what it would take to do your own memory upgrade vs. Apple's memory prices? Certainly, the HD upgrade prices are silly. Meanwhile, it's entertaining to read about Fink on Intel Mac's. Sounds like you have to build it yourself, but that it appears to work.
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#276597 - 01/03/2006 16:50
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Just to be pedantic, the $700.00 Mac Mini that I got had the built in G-wifi. Dunno what its wired ethernet speed is.
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#276598 - 01/03/2006 18:31
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Here's a specific question: Can it play the HD Gallery videos from the apple site here without frameskipping?
Yes. Common consensus seems to be the Solo version will do 720p, and the Duo will do 1080p without skipping.
I'm curious to see pictures of the insides. The Intel iMacs have a socketed CPU, where as the MacBook solders it directly on the board. If the Mini also uses a socket, it would mean it is upgradable to even faster chips, including possibly the Meron 64bit chips coming later this year.
Regarding the ethernet connection, the PowerPC mini had 10/100 ethernet. I am considering going to gigabit when I move, so this is nice to see.
The non hacked Front Row is a big deal for me too. I just have to resist the temptation of buying one now.
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#276599 - 01/03/2006 19:12
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
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The Mini Mac would look really good in an application I have. I have never used a Mac and know almost nothing about them.
Here is my question:
I am thinking of using a Sanyo Z4 and a 60" screen in the bedroom. I test drove a friends Z4 in my viewing room and it performed very well on a 126" 16:9 screen. I currently have a 1.2 TB file computer that is just a PC running XP Pro with a 3ware raid card. Can I use the movies that are stored on the file computer via a Mini Mac? Would I have to modify the XP box to do it? Would I use Samba? Is it easy? If it will work it would be a cool solution. The Mini Mac would look good and it would give me a chance to play with a Mac!
_________________________
No matter where you might be, there you are.
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#276600 - 01/03/2006 19:34
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: Neutrino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Can I use the movies that are stored on the file computer via a Mini Mac?
Yes. You can mount the XP movie share on the Mac and then use the DVD player app on the Mac to play a set of VOB files in a dir.
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Would I have to modify the XP box to do it?
No. Just plain Windows file sharing will do since it doesn't need to know what the files actually are.
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Would I use Samba?
The Mac might use Samba behind the scenes but you don't need to fiddle with it.
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Is it easy?
Yes. I do this with a Samba NAS and my Mac mini. It is a bit clunky since you have to mount the share and then select the directory in DVD player. You might be able to find some nice front end that does this for you however.
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#276601 - 01/03/2006 19:41
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
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Thanks Trevor! A frontend would be nice. I currently use Xlobby on the HTPC.
_________________________
No matter where you might be, there you are.
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#276602 - 01/03/2006 19:44
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
It is a bit clunky since you have to mount the share
To have it mount automaticially at log in, mount it normally, storing the login in the keychain. Then open System Preferences - Accounts - Login Items, and drag the share from the desktop to that window. Took me a bit to figure that one out, I used to use an apple script as a login item to do it.
Not sure of an easy way to do the VOB playback. I don't have enough storage to do VOB rips, so the few movies I have are H.264 transcoded.
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#276603 - 01/03/2006 21:56
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Not sure of an easy way to do the VOB playback.
Something in the back of my mind is tickling me, telling me that the built-in Mac DVD player software will simply play the VOBs off the hard disk just fine.
I don't know for sure why I'm thinking that, but I could swear I tried it at one point and it worked. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, and I tried it and it *didn't* work....
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#276604 - 01/03/2006 22:20
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
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It seems to me that if the Mac can play DVD's through it's DVD playing programming it should be able to play VOB's, IFO's from a folder. I can't think of any of the commercially available PC based DVD playback programs that don't. WinDVD, PowerDVD, and TheaterTek all do. Of course, I'm an idiot when it comes to Mac's but it just seems like it should be "so".
_________________________
No matter where you might be, there you are.
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#276605 - 01/03/2006 23:52
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: Neutrino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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It can. I said I was doing so in an earlier post. You have to put the VOB files into a VIDEO_TS subdir tho. It used to be that it didn't care but an upgrade of the DVD app forced that change.
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#276606 - 02/03/2006 00:52
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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The zillion dollar question: can DVDs be ripped, compressed, cataloged, and managed by iTunes in the same fashion as videos purchased from the Apple online store? If they made it properly painless, then it would be a significant improvement. Of course, Hollywood would fight that tooth and nail...
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#276607 - 02/03/2006 00:52
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well dammit. I wish I would have waited a week before buying my Mini.
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#276608 - 02/03/2006 01:15
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
The zillion dollar question: can DVDs be ripped, compressed, cataloged, and managed by iTunes
I remember being in an Apple Store looking at the video ipod and hearing the salesman answer that very question from another customer. The salesman said "no."
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#276609 - 02/03/2006 03:13
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: ]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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If you've still got time, return it. Unless it was BTO in which case you're out of luck.
Matthew
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#276611 - 02/03/2006 03:35
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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But even then iTunes can't manage the VOBs. Front row would be a whole lot more valuble if it could access all your DVDs with the menus. Of course, that's not legal. So, it'll have to be some under the table solution which could plug into front row. Except there isn't any sort of front row api AFAIK.
Matthew
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#276612 - 02/03/2006 03:49
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Even without a FrontRow API, how does it find your iTunes Videos? Rather than DVDs, what if you've got assorted QuickTime files? Can it inhale those on its menus? That would be a fine start.
Cute / insidious hack idea: even if FrontRow doesn't have its own API, it almost certainly calls out to QuickTime to handle all its various media types, and QuickTime *does* have its own API. Thus, you've got a route to inject your own favorite content types into FrontRow.
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#276613 - 02/03/2006 04:39
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Something in the back of my mind is tickling me, telling me that the built-in Mac DVD player software will simply play the VOBs off the hard disk just fine.
That is true. I was more thinking of an easy way to do this from a HTPC usage of the Mini with only a remote, since VOBs can't be put into iTunes directly for Front Row to see it.
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#276614 - 02/03/2006 12:57
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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If you want to keep all the menus on your DVDs, then it's much cheaper to buy a 400-disc changer than it is to buy hard drives and take the time to rip all your discs. Of course on the Mac I don't think there are any solutions for controlling the external changer right now. I know the former Slink-e hardware does it, but the only Mac software I've seen for it supports music only.
I suppose you'll have to wait until some much better software is relesed for the Mac... But that's all I'm saying.
Bruno
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#276615 - 02/03/2006 15:05
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
But that's all I'm saying.
... and when might you be saying more?
Anyway, here's the other question I've got with respect to the new Mac Mini. First some background: my father would really like some kind of videoconferencing setup so he can see my daughter more often. My mom would probably like that as well, but she's not a computer user. (I email pictures to my dad who shows them to my mom.) Dad has finally gotten himself DSL and wireless, which he uses with his WinXP laptop, on which he also keeps his modest collection of ripped music in iTunes. Also, Dad recently got a shiny Sharp Aquos 45" LCD. It's very purty. He's opposed to spending big bucks on a home theater PC, but the lure of video conferencing with his granddaughter is certainly a draw.
The obvious answer to his problem is one of these Mac Mini's. Presumably, since it's just a Mac, I could even SSH new pictures in and notify FrontRow or iPhoto to add them to the rotation. Likewise, an Apple iSight would see like the least painful way of doing a videoconferencing solution. The Bluetooth keyboard mouse would also work well in front of the TV.
Questions: would a low-ball Mac Mini do the job, or does he need the bigger hard disk, more RAM, dual core, and so forth? How about an equivalent small form factor PC? Assume that high performance 3D graphics is irrelevant, but that video decoding is key. What's the current state of "equivalent" PCs? What's the state of the world for videoconferencing? Are any of these things user-friendly to the point that my mom might be able to figure them out?
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#276616 - 02/03/2006 15:24
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
some kind of videoconferencing setup
Try Skype 2.0. Works really well with my Logitech Quickcam Fusion. I talk to my brother overseas quite frequently on it.
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~ John
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#276617 - 02/03/2006 16:28
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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You can do video conferencing fairly easily in iChat together with an iSight. The picture quality from an iSight is better than most webcams because of the auto focus.
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#276618 - 02/03/2006 18:45
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
I'm curious to see pictures of the insides....If the Mini also uses a socket...
See here for the answer
Cheers
Cris.
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#276619 - 02/03/2006 23:02
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: matthew_k]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
If you've still got time, return it. Unless it was BTO in which case you're out of luck.
Matthew
Yeah, it can't hurt to ask. I got the mid-level PPC Mini which is the same price as one with a single Intel processor. It looks I'm going to lose 20 gigs on the HD and gain a remote, 2 usb ports, a line-in jack, gigabit ethernet, and the Intel processor.
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#276620 - 05/03/2006 06:12
Re: new Intel-based Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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So I went to the Apple store in Manchester yesterday. Had a go on all the new intel machines and the new iPod HiFi (Total waste of money, bass is boomy and distorted!). Overall I was impressed, in relation to the new macmini the new dual intel was much faster than my current G4 1.42. All the worries about the intel gfx are unfounded, the output is sharp and slick, desktop ripples are very very smooth and scrolling through an iPhoto library is much much slicker than on my current machine. The machine does tend to hang during some operations, this seems to be until the program is fully loaded into memory, so for example opening and then closing iPhoto the first time takes an age (it took about a minute to exit) but then opening an closing gets faster each time, I repeated this with other apps and saw the same results. It is something I have never noticed on my G4. I assume it will be sorted with future updates? I am going to get one of these new machines, they are faster in general use than the old G4's. It was a top of the line machine though Cheers Cris.
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