#281802 - 22/05/2006 18:45
Empeg future?
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new poster
Registered: 22/05/2006
Posts: 1
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I'm new here - I love these Empegs - wonderful things beautifully built.
But my Q is what future do they now have with Alpine and its direct link Ipod connection and other manufacturers catching up fast?
What do others think?
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#281803 - 22/05/2006 19:06
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: wolfgang]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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The empeg's future is a small one. Most of us here don't think that Alpine or any other manufacturer is going to ever make a better device for listening to your own music collection in the car.
They will certainly make flashier ones, ones with bigger and better screens, ones with HD radio, ones with satelite radio, ones with navigation systems capable of guiding a spacegoing probe, but when it comes down to it, once you've learned how to use your empeg to the fullest extent, it's going to be far more powerful than any interface designed for selling stereos on the wall at best buy. Higherarcical playlists, tweak order, bookmarks, custom shuffles and wendy filters are all featurers that are probably not likely to see the light of day until AI gets to the point where you're talking with your car and asking it to play something that suits your mood, not interacting with the stereo.
At least, that's my guess. I'd love to be proved wrong. The car PC crowd may work out something comparable sooner, but I'm not holding my breath.
Matthew
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#281804 - 22/05/2006 20:23
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: wolfgang]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
what future do they now have
Future? Just to be clear... You're aware that only 4,000 of these things were ever made, and the last one was built five years ago?
In other words, are you asking about the future of the Empeg Car/Rio Car product specifically? Or about the future of car MP3 audio in general?
I see the future of car audio as being ipod docks. Lots and lots of ipod docks. A sad state of things (in my opinion), because there are fantastic features on the Rio products that the ipod doesn't have and doesn't seem to be anywhere close to getting yet. Not to mention that the ipod is proprietary. SIGH.
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#281805 - 22/05/2006 20:23
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: wolfgang]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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I will always keep an open mind. I sat in my customers' Mercedes CLS the other day, and his OEM iPod doohicky was pretty amazing. It had a dashboard display, he could play any of the playlists on his iPod using the buttons on the steering wheel, the sound was great and it had a Bluetooth phone where you can browse the phonebook on the screen and everything. These things have improved a lot, and I can see it being more widespread soon - all this Mercedes technology always filters down to every other manufacturer.
No matter what happens in the future, the Empeg is still totally sweet when you look at the history, the Linux geek factor, the community and great design. All from 1999. While mine is working, I'm never selling it.
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#281806 - 22/05/2006 20:31
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
I see the future of car audio as being ipod docks. Lots and lots of ipod docks.
Perhaps this won't be such a problem in future, now Apple have someone clueful on their iPod design team (so I hear)..
Rob
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#281807 - 22/05/2006 21:30
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
now Apple have someone clueful on their iPod design team (so I hear)..
All right.. 'fess up, whoever you are! 
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#281808 - 23/05/2006 11:20
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Well, I wasn't planning to announce this just yet, but next month I'm starting a job with the iPod group... however, I have no idea what I'll be working on, and when I do find out I'll be very legally bound not to tell anyone. It'd be nice if it was automotive-related, but I think they have that tied up & many of the issues/limitations that exist are more to do with the 3rd party implementations than the device itself - and so will improve as the car makers improve their systems. Effectively, this means that there may well be a lot more bay area meets - come October, when my H1B starts anyway - and goes some way to explaining why there will be a lot of empeg-related stuff being given away at my barbie come the end of July  This doesn't mean bad things for the empeg code (and its expert custodians) which is still on track to be in some hoopy (and yes, they are hoopy, I've seen the industrial designs) new players for the holiday season! Hugo
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#281809 - 23/05/2006 11:30
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Cool. Congratulations Hugo.
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#281810 - 23/05/2006 11:38
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
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Congratulation for your new Job, Hugo!
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg
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#281811 - 23/05/2006 11:40
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Well, I wasn't planning to announce this just yet, but next month I'm starting a job with the iPod group.
Aw, man, what'd you have to go and do that for!? Now I can't diss the ipod any more.
(Congrats. )
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#281812 - 23/05/2006 11:50
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I have no idea what I'll be working on, and when I do find out I'll be very legally bound not to tell anyone.
If it's within your power, I'm sure we all have requests of stuff we'd like to see in the ipod...
- Hierarchical playlists with "ignore as child"
- On-the fly playlist reordering and track insertion a la Rio Karma
- TOBY'S VISUALS!!!!
- Fully open spec for the dock connection, both directions, hardware and software
- World peace
- Discovery of extraterrestrial life
- A Democrat in the White House
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#281813 - 23/05/2006 12:17
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Congratulations!!! If you ever need a beta test community... Oh, Tony, not meaning to hijack this important historic thread, but I would merely settle for: Quote:
- Discovery of extraterrestrial life
- A Democrat in the White House
- Discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life
- Discovery of intelligent life in the White House
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#281815 - 23/05/2006 13:43
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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member
Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK
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Never expected that!! Congratulations Hugo! My colleagues will wonder why I suddenly switch my allegiance to iPod docks!! Enjoy Nick
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#281816 - 23/05/2006 15:15
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Thanks for all the nice messages - I suspect I'm going to have, err, rather less influence than I've managed to wield in previous companies - but I guess the proof will be in the pudding It'll definitely be a change - I've not had a serious job interview before, for starters! I can forsee a number of mini-meets in tahoe at the top of mountains during winter too! Hugo ps As an alien, I won't be able to vote, so you're going to have to sort out your government yourselves pps I'll get 15% off in any Apple store too, so hold off buying those 30" panels until I'm in town...
Edited by altman (23/05/2006 15:18)
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#281817 - 23/05/2006 15:29
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Only four left from Empeg 2003:  Peter
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#281818 - 23/05/2006 15:43
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Only four left from Empeg 2003
..but the male to female staff ratio is significantly improved!
Rob
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#281820 - 23/05/2006 17:03
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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And our number 1 iPod request is....
gapless playback!
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#281821 - 23/05/2006 17:52
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Good luck in the new job Hugo. The iPod team must be a pretty exciting place.
Absolutely! Last year they changed the colour from white to black, who knows what they have in store for us next
Rob
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#281822 - 23/05/2006 18:58
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Designing anything that has to be made in big volume is exciting, if you ask me - you have to really, really, really design stuff well when even a 0.05% defect rate makes a very big pile of units that don't work right off the production line As for innovation, they're one of the very few companies who can actually really afford to innovate in a big way in electronics. Let's see... firewire? first usb-only machine? the people who made the first affordable wifi gear? proper bluetooth integration into the os? nicest lcds? first 1.8" hdd-based player? touchwheel / clickwheel? There's also the fact that when they make something, they market the hell out of it... Hugo
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#281823 - 23/05/2006 19:08
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
There's also the fact that when they make something, they market the hell out of it...
Now there's a change...too bad some other defunct company couldn't figure that one out.
_________________________
~ John
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#281824 - 23/05/2006 19:55
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
..and goes some way to explaining why there will be a lot of empeg-related stuff being given away at my barbie come the end of July
I'll take the Noble!
And what does Claire think of the move to Amerika?
Cheers
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#281825 - 23/05/2006 21:20
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Good luck Hugo, well done! Please let us know when we can all buy an iPod without feeling guilty Cheers Cris.
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#281826 - 23/05/2006 21:49
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Good luck I would be scared of getting fired by if Jobs is having a bad day
_________________________
Matt
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#281827 - 23/05/2006 22:49
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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old hand
Registered: 12/01/2000
Posts: 1079
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Congrats on the new job Hugo.
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#281828 - 24/05/2006 00:07
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: Terminator]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Whoa kick ass! Congrats man! Tahoe trips are definitely in our future... I'm always up for the snow when it returns. I'll have to set you up with a paragliding tandem flight too...
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#281829 - 24/05/2006 00:36
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Wow, congratulations on your new job Hugo! It's great to see the empeg guys bringing their great ideas to so many other products. And now we've got empeg blood inside Apple! Just another step in the right direction for the audio world.
I guess my eventual SigmaTel-powered player will have to share a pocket with an ipeg...
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#281830 - 24/05/2006 05:09
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
Only four left from Empeg 2003
..but the male to female staff ratio is significantly improved!
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.
Anyway, congrats to Hugo. Don't let your non-voting status keep you from trying to fix the government in other ways -- you're still a constituent and tax-payer!
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#281831 - 24/05/2006 06:01
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: loren]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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...and locally we should check out Tornado.When's all this fun s'posedta start?
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#281832 - 24/05/2006 07:57
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.
Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type
Peter
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#281833 - 24/05/2006 07:59
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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Many congrats, Hugo! I hope to see your influence on the next generation car friendly ipod.
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#281834 - 24/05/2006 08:37
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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definitely - many congratulations! Get Apple sorted with a decent UI!
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#281835 - 24/05/2006 10:14
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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We definatley need to see some kind of DIN-sized mp3 player with removable storage. Hmmmm.....
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#281836 - 24/05/2006 13:49
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.
Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type
Best. Response. Evar.
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#281837 - 24/05/2006 14:28
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Heh. I was going to say at least they're keeping the cute one around.
Well, I'm flattered, but frankly I don't think I'm your type
Best. Response. Evar.
Most. Expected. Response. Ever.
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#281838 - 24/05/2006 17:18
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Ha! No chance of that, Toby's working for us....
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#281839 - 24/05/2006 20:27
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
...and locally we should check out Tornado.
Been there, cool place. I had no idea that there are beers that, akin to a wine bar, are incredibly expensive.
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#281840 - 24/05/2006 20:45
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Congrats Hugo!
Now I definitely won't be missing the bbq in July.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#281841 - 25/05/2006 07:07
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I don't see how that rules anything out Hugo
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#281842 - 25/05/2006 08:40
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: mlord]
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member
Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK
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Didn't I read somewhere that the new Noble M15 had an iPod connection as standard? Is this just coincidence!?
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#281843 - 25/05/2006 08:42
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: Half_Geek]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Definitely just coincidence! When the M12 was being serviced a few weeks back I asked to have a look at the M15 and got taken into the top secret area ("don't look at anything except the painted one").
The M15 definitely looks better in the flesh than in pictures, but I'm really not sure on the slab-sides at the back - the M14 was much more my taste if they'd sorted the rear lights out. The interior was ok, but again I think I preferred the M14. Definitely more boot space in the M15 - and the lower mounted engine & all the other race-bred tweaks they've put in will make it a real monster!
Hugo
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#281844 - 25/05/2006 08:58
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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member
Registered: 03/12/2002
Posts: 119
Loc: Stratdord-upon-Avon, UK
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I would agree on the M15 back - the sharper haunches give it a very wide Testarossa-ish look to me, which is not my cup of tea. Oh to have to choose between M12s, 14s and 15s! So, did you peek at the unpainted stuff?! And what kind of courtesy car do you get when you have a Noble serviced!!
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#281845 - 25/05/2006 12:55
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: Half_Geek]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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No, I didn't peek No courtesy car at all, in fact. Had to go and rent one (the train is so convoluted between Hinckley and Cambridge that if I'd come back that way I'd have about half an hour before I had to get the train back...). Not really excellent service from that point of view, but £24 for a rental Fiesta sport is ok! Hugo
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#281846 - 25/05/2006 14:56
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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journeyman
Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
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First off, congrats!
Secondly, having been an early (and continuing) fan[boy] of empeg, and an owner of 4 generations of iPod's, I have the following observation to offer...
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company. They turned the game around. Prior to the iPod, everyone was competing with how many features they could cram into a pocket sized player. What we ended up with was players with many external switches and ports, and very complicated and intimidating user interfaces, that took a lot of care and feeding. Players perfect for engineers and serious geeks, but completely useless to the average person.
The iPod changed all that. Everytime I use my iPod and I pine for some esoteric feature that I used to have on my empeg or rio500 or whatever, I remember that it's a feature I might only use once in a blue moon, and if I kept adding each one the day to day use of my iPod would soon be unmanagable.
Good luck Hugo, I am sure you'll kick ass and we'll all reap the fruits of your labor!
Cheers,
Ron
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#281847 - 25/05/2006 18:34
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It's pretty easy to hide advanced configuration from the average user while still allowing the "power user" access to it.
Otherwise, I agree.
Well, except for the fact that iPods are now chock full of bells and whistles that have nothing whatsoever to do with audio playback. Pictures, calendars, videos, games, etc.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#281848 - 25/05/2006 18:45
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features
Moo.
Welcome to the herd.
_________________________
~ John
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#281849 - 25/05/2006 18:59
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Moo.
Welcome to the herd.
Not Mooo... Baaaaah!!!
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#281850 - 25/05/2006 19:00
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I wouldn't go that far. There's some merit to what he says. Namely, the idiotic masses need something simple. And the idiotic masses outnumber us like 20 to 1, if not more. And I'm not even intending to cast aspersions. Your parents are likely in that category. Mine, too.
That doesn't make it good for the rest of us, though.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#281851 - 25/05/2006 19:18
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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journeyman
Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
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Look around you -- you belong to a herd, it's called the human race :-)
I love this reaction to anyone who likes something that "non-technical" people like. It couldn't be that the thing is actually pretty cool and useful and brings some happiness to your life. It has to be because you are just a useless member of some "herd".
Me, I like lots of different devices, complicated and not, and I am fortunate enough to be able to both own and know how to use most of them.
My point with the post was that if someone were to add even only the top 10 requests (from this board) to the iPod, it would signficantly reduce the usability of the device, and by extension its popularity.
rjf&
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#281852 - 25/05/2006 19:28
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
My point with the post was that if someone were to add even only the top 10 requests (from this board) to the iPod, it would signficantly reduce the usability of the device, and by extension its popularity.
Only if done poorly. I'm very much an Apple fanboy, but I don't think you'd have to impact the iPod's usability at all to improve upon it. How does adding gapless playback impact usability? How about supporting additional formats, any UI impact there?
Yeah, some of the more arcane stuff like tweak order and virtual DJ type stuff might require a little extra UI that might confuse novices, but they could just not bother with those things. I don't see how making the device do a little more necessarily has a negative impact on usability.
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#281853 - 25/05/2006 19:38
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Hierarchical playlists, too.
There are many things like that that could be added completely transparently that would affect the UI only if you chose to use them.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#281854 - 25/05/2006 20:28
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: wfaulk]
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journeyman
Registered: 30/11/2001
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
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I'll just point out that this is exactly how a device gets out of hand. A group of very smart people lobbying for the addition of their pet feature, claiming that if implemented properly it'll have absolutely no effect on the usability of the device for those who care nothing of the feature in question.
I definitely accept the argument that perhaps Apple went a little too far toward the pedestrian, but it was a much better choice than going too far the other way, assuming your goal is to have a widely appealing and profitable business :-)
BTW, I don't think we're really arguing, just passing the afternoon by elaborating our points -- let me know if I am mistaken.
Cheers,
rjf&
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#281855 - 25/05/2006 20:31
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I think that if anyone can add features without decreasing usability, Apple can.
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#281856 - 25/05/2006 22:07
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company.Exactly. If a company has plans to remain in business, it has to market to the masses, which is what Apple has done, and is why empeg production ceased years ago. This is a reasonably succinct reprise of what I am saying... tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#281857 - 25/05/2006 22:48
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rjf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
I definitely accept the argument that perhaps Apple went a little too far toward the pedestrian, but it was a much better choice than going too far the other way, assuming your goal is to have a widely appealing and profitable business :-)
I think you and I are in the same ballpark, then. I believe Apple went too far toward the pedestrian because they knew they hit a grand slam with iTunes and ITMS. Those selling points gave them the luxury to kick back and slowly perfect the iPod, rather than having to pit feature against feature and design against design.
That's just dandy, but I think it's time for them to seriously innovate. The fact that there's no gapless playback is *inexcusable*.
Quote:
BTW, I don't think we're really arguing, just passing the afternoon by elaborating our points
Without question. (Though, it's evening here already.)
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#281858 - 25/05/2006 23:23
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
The iPod is wildly successful because it LACKS many features. This is the success of Jobs and company.
No.
The iPod is successful because it is drop-dead beautiful to look at, and plays digital music adequately. The external visible design is what sells iPods, not the feature set or lack thereof.
The reason it lacks features is simple pure MBA stuff: this way they can spoon-feed the missing features one-by-one in subsequent upgrades, thereby reselling (almost) the same product over and over to the same people, multiplying profits. Nearly all successful businesses do that sort of thing.
Cheers
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#281859 - 25/05/2006 23:50
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
it is drop-dead beautiful
Not until it runs Toby's visuals (my pet feature). But seriously, you're right. iPods are a fashion accessory, a brand to show off, a badge of conformity, a... baaahh.
Quote:
Nearly all successful businesses do that sort of thing.
And have always done this sort of thing. Didn't even Shakespeare and other classic authors do the same thing with their works? Sell them as installment, then in a complete folio, then a hard bound folio, then leather bound, then a compendium, etc, etc. ::cough:: Star Wars ::cough::
Let's hope they ARE perfecting the iPod and not George Lucas'ing it. "Get the special 'Black Eyed Peas' Edition iPod, with an exclusive 2 gigabyte mix of 'My Humps'" ( @ Bitt )
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#281860 - 26/05/2006 05:19
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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iTunes is the reason why the iPod sells. Apple solved the mp3 creation problem for non-technical people and they integrated their solution seamlessly with their player.
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#281861 - 26/05/2006 05:28
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Personally - and this comment is with no insight apart from having been a competitor and taken apart many iPods in my time - I suspect that Apple would love gapless, but adding it to their current platform would require a lot reorganisation of the software structure. I have to say that I've only ever managed to crash an iPod by running some USB stress tests; the player software is solid as a rock. I can believe that they don't fancy pulling it to pieces and (most likely) seriously affecting stability to add such a feature. I can believe the player engine is largely unchanged from how it was in 2001, and for that vintage it's just fine. However, as everyone has heard (especially portalplayer's shareholders), Apple looks like they're moving platform, at least for new flash players. Given that the PP platform was, errr, unique with its twin ARM7 cores, I can believe that they'll take the opportunity to build themselves a fancy new player with all the bells and whistles. Apart from anything else, their sales now justify a major software investment, whereas the original iPod (pre iTunes, especially) was a bit of a flyer for Apple and was pretty risk-averse in its software design. Take a look at what the Mac does graphically - the beatifully scaled & anti-aliased icons, the neat transparency effects, the rotating cube user switching - these people love seamless. They love flair. I can't believe they're happy with the gaps. Just my 2p (when it's 2c, I won't be free to give it ) Hugo
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#281862 - 26/05/2006 12:48
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: FireFox31]
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veteran
Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
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Quote:
Let's hope they ARE perfecting the iPod and not George Lucas'ing it. "Get the special 'Black Eyed Peas' Edition iPod, with an exclusive 2 gigabyte mix of 'My Humps'" ( @ Bitt )
They already did.
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#281863 - 26/05/2006 13:04
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
these people love seamless. They love flair. I can't believe they're happy with the gaps.
It does seem very odd. You'd think gapless playback would hit all the bases for Apple: no UI issues, popular with musicians and creatives, making the competition seem ugly and unprofessional, etc., and the fact that Ipod has been through so many revisions without fixing this properly (plus the fact they briefly thought that that "joining songs together" scheme was worth the development time as a workaround) makes me wonder if there's something slightly unwell about the Ipod software development process at Apple.
Peter
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#281864 - 26/05/2006 14:27
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31575
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
makes me wonder if there's something slightly unwell about the Ipod software development process at Apple.
Well, let's hope the Hugo can have an influence, then?
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#281865 - 26/05/2006 15:33
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
makes me wonder if there's something slightly unwell about the Ipod software development process at Apple.
We've met with the iPod software guys a few times and they've come across as very clueful, although sometimes it feels like they might be about to break out into the company song.
I suspect it's more likely that there's too much core software in there from their principle chip vendor. As Hugo says, it seems that won't be a problem soon.
Rob
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#281866 - 26/05/2006 16:32
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
We've met with the iPod software guys a few times and they've come across as very clueful, although sometimes it feels like they might be about to break out into the company song.
I suspect it's more likely that there's too much core software in there from their principle chip vendor.
Right, I didn't mean they must be clueless. Being yoked to something that makes their lives much harder than necessary would still come under a "slightly unwell process".
Peter
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#281867 - 26/05/2006 16:59
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
I have to say that I've only ever managed to crash an iPod by running some USB stress tests; the player software is solid as a rock. I can believe that they don't fancy pulling it to pieces and (most likely) seriously affecting stability to add such a feature. I can believe the player engine is largely unchanged from how it was in 2001, and for that vintage it's just fine.
Have you played with the new 5Gs? Man, Mine locks up and has interface hitches OFTEN. So does Kelly's. I think I narrowed it down to album art stuff, but so far my new iPod experience hasn't been something of solidity. Video stuff is anything but seamless as well. But, those are new fancy features I guess... the older gen iPods, 3G and prior, were always rock solid.
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#281868 - 26/05/2006 17:02
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Congrats on the job! Perhaps you can suggest digital outputs finally be offered on future iPods? It just makes sense given that every other piece of Apple gear includes them now.
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#281869 - 26/05/2006 17:30
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Late to the thread, but one more congrats to you!
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#281870 - 26/05/2006 18:00
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
The reason it lacks features is simple pure MBA stuff: this way they can spoon-feed the missing features one-by-one in subsequent upgrades, thereby reselling (almost) the same product over and over to the same people, multiplying profits. Nearly all successful businesses do that sort of thing.
Apparently, Steve Jobs agrees.
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#281871 - 26/05/2006 21:15
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tonyc]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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I must admit, some of the iPod docks are a bit classier than the empeg dock:  http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/25/the-concerto-table/
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#281872 - 27/05/2006 15:04
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Really? You should post an image of one of those classy ones.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#281874 - 27/05/2006 22:40
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
Well, I wasn't planning to announce this just yet, but next month I'm starting a job with the iPod group... however, I have no idea what I'll be working on, and when I do find out I'll be very legally bound not to tell anyone.
This doesn't mean bad things for the empeg code (and its expert custodians) which is still on track to be in some hoopy (and yes, they are hoopy, I've seen the industrial designs) new players for the holiday season!
Holly cow, I missed this bombshell!
Congratulations, Hugo!
So, it seems that soon it will be OK to buy an iPod and some new kids on the block reincarnating emper/Karma's features. Great! 
Cheers!
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#281875 - 27/05/2006 22:43
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
I think that if anyone can add features without decreasing usability, Apple can.
Exactly. I don't see that one-button-mouse clicking, Aqua-admiring crowd is hampered by Mach and BSD innards, open to those who know what to do with them.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#281876 - 27/05/2006 23:45
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Exactly. I don't see that one-button-mouse clicking, Aqua-admiring crowd is hampered by Mach and BSD innards, open to those who know what to do with them.
The mixture of ease of use and powerful features is what attracted me to OS X, and the hardware. The iPod nano I have now works very well for carrying around podcasts, but I still use my Karma for music when I'm away from my empeg. If the iPod added some features under the hood, I'd be all over a 6th gen unit. iTunes already has folders for partial hierarchal support, it just now needs to hop over the sync interface properly to the iPod.
And Hugo, congrats on the new job. The fact that Apple is willing to bring you onboard says a lot about your past work and how great it was.
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#281877 - 29/05/2006 00:29
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: drakino]
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member
Registered: 27/01/2006
Posts: 142
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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This might be my first ever post here. Anyway, I'm usually hanging out over at Riovolution and wanted to offer my hearty congratulations and best of luck to Hugo. Hardly a day goes by when I don't appreciate and enjoy the hell out of my Karma.
Methinks the future of the DAP industry just got a lot more interesting.
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#281878 - 31/05/2006 17:22
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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member
Registered: 19/03/2002
Posts: 144
Loc: Florida, USA
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Congratulations! Let's see what great things you can cook up there they like Out of the box ideas. Just don't piss off Jobs. When he parks in handicapped spots, its because he does have a disibility. a mental one (someone left a note on his car when he did that once, and he did a shake-down of the entire Apple board design building trying to find the culprit) <Nelson> Ha ha </Nelson>
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::: shadow45
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#281879 - 05/06/2006 00:17
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 08/08/2001
Posts: 452
Loc: NZ
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Wow! Congrats on the new job Hugo...
Hopefully you can be as helpful with regards to tech info on their players as you have been with Rio, however I somehow doubt that, they will lock you up in a dark room.. :P Let's hope the SigmaTel makes in into their harddrive variants with you on board.
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#281880 - 05/06/2006 22:18
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: JaBZ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
Wow! Congrats on the new job Hugo...
Hopefully you can be as helpful with regards to tech info on their players as you have been with Rio, however I somehow doubt that, they will lock you up in a dark room.. :P Let's hope the SigmaTel makes in into their harddrive variants with you on board.
If Apple starts using Sigmatel again, Hugo will be very valuable indeed with his new surroundings. Perhaps it was something that modivated his hire within Apple. (Pure specuation I know, but it's fun!)
_________________________
Brad B.
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#281881 - 10/06/2006 02:05
Re: Empeg future?
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Wow! Congratulations! Quote:
I can believe that they'll take the opportunity to build themselves a fancy new player with all the bells and whistles. Apart from anything else, their sales now justify a major software investment, whereas the original iPod (pre iTunes, especially) was a bit of a flyer for Apple and was pretty risk-averse in its software design. ...snip.....
What can I say? You go boy! ...and....on a more practical note:
Kennedy!
Kennedy!
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Kennedy!
Kennedy!`
Jim
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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