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#284960 - 31/07/2006 14:56 Re: English vs American [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok, I love this thread. At school here (Italy) we mainly study British English, even though you never know until you learn enough to tell the difference between British English and American English. Now, what about this:

Rubber (UK) = Eraser (AM) ?

I still remember my classmates laughing when I asked for a "rubber", in Santa Clara University, CA, USA Of course those are pretty funny ways to learn and never forget.
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#284961 - 31/07/2006 15:00 Re: English vs American [Re: tfabris]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
What about the practice of dropping certain articles? I've always wondered about this:

UK: "He's in hospital" US: "He's in the hospital"

Isn't the latter actually correct English, even in England? When would you use one and not the other?

The first is used instead of the US "he's been hospitalized", where it's unknown (or irrelevant) exactly which hospital he's been taken to. The second would only be used when a particular hospital has already been discussed. There are plenty of similar constructs: "on holiday" rather than "on a vacation", "in bed" rather than "in their bed", and so on.

Another shibboleth to do with missing words is missing prepositions in US English: I've mainly seen this in cnn.com headlines, but people do it in speech too: "Let's do this Tuesday" rather than "Let's do this on Tuesday". And in US English, "protest" is a transitive verb with no preposition, and you can "protest" gay marriages, whereas in the UK it's intransitive and always takes a preposition: you'd have to "protest against" gay marriages. Mind you, elsewhere there's extra prepositions: in the US you "meet with" someone, whereas in the UK you just "meet" them.

Quote:
Speaking of words that start with H... What about the practice of treating H as if it were silent at the start of a word? Even extending to the choice of using "a" or "an" when placing the article before the word:

UK: "The dolphin will jump through an 'oop" US: "The dolphin will jump through a hoop"

"Hoop" has the H sounded in Received Pronunciation UK English, and no-one would say "an hoop" if they sounded the H. However, in the past the H was never sounded, and there are still some words where it isn't, such as "hour". And of course there are words where the H is sounded in some English accents but not others: a Yorkshireman would say "an 'oop". Some style guides for written UK English, including the BBC's, abhor this ambiguity and require "an" for all H words.

Peter

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#284962 - 31/07/2006 15:02 Re: English vs American [Re: Dignan]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Quote:
No worries! I understand what you're saying. I guess we'll disagree then

But one last point:
Quote:
And yes, it's drink-driving, but you didn't write that in your orginal post, I copied what you wrote verbatim.

I've never seen your version with the hyphen until I read your post. I've read a number of British news reports that have used the term often but never put a hyphen in it. So that's the official way to write it? In the US it's "drunk driving," without a hyphen.


I wrote that subconsciously, my grammar isn't that great! Although looking it up on the web, "drink-driving" does seem to be the correct way to apply it (as opposed to "drink driving").

My problem with drunk driving is that its use with the word alcohol generally means 2 things:

John drunk some beers. (may or may not be feeling the effects)
John was drunk. (definately feeling the effects!)

When used in the term "drunk driver", I agree that it could mean that either "John drunk some beers and then drove" or "john was drunk while driving", but if you were to ask the average person on the street, I'd hazard a guess that they'd go for the second meaning of the word.

Each to their own though!

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#284963 - 31/07/2006 15:04 Re: English vs American [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Coriander and Cilantro both can refer to the leaf. The only difference depends on the enthnicity of the restaurant, store or cookbook you're reading.

I don't ever use the word Cilantro - it's always been coriander. And I've always lived around plenty of Italians. Or Eye-talians as they say in the US. I also don't like it, not in salsa, not in anything really.
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#284964 - 31/07/2006 15:05 Re: English vs American [Re: sn00p]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Quote:

John drunk some beers.


John drank some beers? Is 'drunk' correct usage?

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#284965 - 31/07/2006 15:07 Re: English vs American [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
fag = cigarette
homosexual = fag
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#284966 - 31/07/2006 15:09 Re: English vs American [Re: furtive]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Also asking for faggots isn't a good idea!

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#284967 - 31/07/2006 15:13 Re: English vs American [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Quote:
Quote:

John drunk some beers.


John drank some beers? Is 'drunk' correct usage?


No idea! Maybe, "john has drunk some beers" would have been a better example.

I'm sure the grammar police will be along to sort this out!

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#284968 - 31/07/2006 15:23 Re: English vs American [Re: peter]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
A very clear summary, peter. Thanks.

Oh, and regarding this:
Quote:
missing prepositions in US English: I've mainly seen this in cnn.com headlines

I don't count it when they do it in headlines. Headlines are a specific writing style where they're deliberately dropping prepositions and articles in order to fit a larger typeface in the limited space. They're not complete sentences.
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#284969 - 31/07/2006 15:39 Re: English vs American [Re: furtive]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
Braces = Suspenders

Which makes me wonder what you yanks call those things that girlies use to keep their tights up

Garter?
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#284970 - 31/07/2006 17:00 Re: English vs American [Re: peter]
g_attrill
old hand

Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
Quote:

Courgette / zucchini



Also Marrow / Melon

Foxed me when I saw "Wallace & Gromit" in NY, they recorded two versions, one where his Gromit's marrow was referred to as a melon for US audiences (and others presumably), but the UK version called it a marrow.

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#284971 - 31/07/2006 17:18 Re: English vs American [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Quote:

Dinner = Lunch
Tea = Dinner (lower class)

This also varies depending where in the UK you are, and how old you are!


I think age has to do with it here in the US as well. Up until a few years ago, my great grandmother was still alive, and her meal schedule was:
breakfast - morning
dinner - noon
supper - evening

Looks like wikipedia has a dedicated meal section, even covering the origins of second breakfast, and elevenses.

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#284972 - 31/07/2006 19:40 Re: English vs American [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
I get mixed up between the US terms Junior High, High School, School, College and University. Someone explain!

I think we've had this one before, but....

In the US, there are 13 years of education (commonly called grades) prior to college/university: kindergarten (optional) and first through twelfth grades. Usually individual schools only teach a subset of those grades, and they're usually divided up as K-5, 6-8, 9-12. K-5 is usually called "elementary school", 6-8 is usually called "middle school", but used to be called "junior high school", or just "junior high" for short, and 9-12 is usually called "high school". Some places divide it up differently, usually for private schools and very small school districts, just because it doesn't make sense to have three divisions for the small numbers of students that they have. These levels of education are provided by the government to all children, and are in fact required up to some level (which I forget the specifics of, and probably varies by state anyway). There are private schools for these grades, too. Children are usually sent to private schools because their parents feel that the public schools are not appropriate for their children, ranging from that they think the quality is poor or that they think their children need religious-based education. Children can also be "home-schooled", which means that they are taught by their parents. The common notion is that home-schooled children often grow up poorly socialized.

A high school diploma is the lowest recognized level of education, and if that's all the education you have, you're likely to have a hard time finding work beyond skilled labor.

"College" and "University" both refer to education past 12th grade. This education is not provided for free, though there are a large number of schools that are run by governments, and they tend to cost less, especially for people who are citizens of the government it is run by. "College" and "University" are almost interchangeable. The difference tends to be that colleges tend to have a limited scope of the degrees that they offer, whereas universities offer degrees in a wide range of subjects, but a more appropriate distinction is probably just that some of these schools call themselves universities and some call themselves colleges. Also, universities often subdivide themselves into colleges based on subject. For example, the university I attended had a college of physical and mathematical sciences, a college of engineering, a college of design, a college of humanities, etc.

"School" is a term that refers to all of those, and you just have to know which one by context. It's kind of like "train". You might be referring to Amtrak/British Rail or you might be talking about a subway or you might be talking about an el.
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#284973 - 31/07/2006 19:42 Re: English vs American [Re: g_attrill]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Marrow / Melon

What do you call the stuff inside bones that generate blood cells?
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#284974 - 31/07/2006 19:51 Re: English vs American [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
No difference: drunk [EDIT]was originally not an adjective.

The first etymology I could find (not near my OED right now) dates it as an adjective back to 1340, which is well prior to modern English. It even predates the Great Vowel Shift. So, yes, it was not originally an adjective, but only if you go back to Middle English.
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#284975 - 31/07/2006 19:59 Re: English vs American [Re: tfabris]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I don't count it when they do it in headlines.


That should be, I don't count it as such when they do it in headlines.


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#284976 - 31/07/2006 20:07 Re: English vs American [Re: g_attrill]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:


Also Marrow / Melon

Foxed me when I saw "Wallace & Gromit" in NY, they recorded two versions, one where his Gromit's marrow was referred to as a melon for US audiences (and others presumably), but the UK version called it a marrow.


That is a bit of artistic licence then. A UK marrow does not equal a US melon.

A marrow is a type of squash (in fact I think it might actually be just a large Zucchini/courgette). It isn't very popular nowadays, but from my childhood I remember it being stringy, slimey and just plain nasty. Could just have been the way it was cooked though...

We also call the stuff inside bones marrow.
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#284977 - 31/07/2006 20:55 Re: English vs American [Re: andy]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
Write to me (UK), write me (US).
Even after 6 years in the US it still bothers me to hear / see that.

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#284978 - 31/07/2006 22:37 Re: English vs American [Re: Cybjorg]
g_attrill
old hand

Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
It's worth mentioning this site, it has a large collection of British terms:

http://www.effingpot.com/

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#284979 - 01/08/2006 05:12 Re: English vs American [Re: g_attrill]
Cybjorg
addict

Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
I took my kids to Legoland in Windsor a couple weeks ago. My son said something about the water on a water ride, but he pronounced it the American way with a "d" in place of the "t" (as in Wa-der). A nearby girl spouted out in her cockney accent, "Did you hear how he pronounced the word wa'er?"

Many Brits tend to eliminate the t's in certain words. I've also noticed a lot of vowels added to the ends of words ending in vowels (Angeler instead of Angela, Christiner instead of Christina).

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#284980 - 01/08/2006 05:18 Re: English vs American [Re: Cybjorg]
Cybjorg
addict

Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
And I forgot to mention...

Brilliant vs Great/Fantastic

In American, the word Brilliant refers to 2 things: the brightness of an object or the extreme genius of one's intellect.

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#284981 - 01/08/2006 05:32 Re: English vs American [Re: Cybjorg]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Quote:
Many Brits tend to eliminate the t's in certain words. I've also noticed a lot of vowels added to the ends of words ending in vowels (Angeler instead of Angela, Christiner instead of Christina).


You have a similar thing too!

Craig - "Creg"

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#284982 - 01/08/2006 07:10 Re: English vs American [Re: Cybjorg]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Many Brits tend to eliminate the t's in certain words.


That's a glottal stop and it's common in Estuary English.
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#284983 - 01/08/2006 10:30 Re: English vs American [Re: andy]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
A marrow is a type of squash (in fact I think it might actually be just a large Zucchini/courgette). It isn't very popular nowadays, but from my childhood I remember it being stringy, slimey and just plain nasty. Could just have been the way it was cooked though...

It's just a large courgette, yes. They're horrible if overcooked (especially if boiled); the best thing to do with them is hollow out the centres, stuff them, and bake them, either halved lengthways or cut crossways into thick rings.

With the right weather, watering, and feeding, marrows can become truly gigantic; competitive marrow-growing is very much a part of Wallace's Yorkshire culture. Competition-sized specimens are probably inedible however you cook them.

Peter

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#284984 - 01/08/2006 10:37 Re: English vs American [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
they're usually divided up as K-5, 6-8, 9-12. K-5 is usually called "elementary school", 6-8 is usually called "middle school", but used to be called "junior high school", or just "junior high" for short, and 9-12 is usually called "high school". Some places divide it up differently, usually for private schools and very small school districts, just because it doesn't make sense to have three divisions for the small numbers of students that they have.

I don't mean to extend the tangent, but I wonder how common the various divisions are. For example, my entire county uses a similar system, except that middle school is grades 7 and 8 only, with 6th being part of elementary school. And the last part of your statement doesn't apply, because Fairfax County in Virginia is a very large county with a very high population.
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#284985 - 01/08/2006 12:02 Re: English vs American [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
True, it does vary somewhat. But you still have three divisions. And the naming convention is basically the same, where elementary, junior high/middle, and high schools are three separate institutions for three separate, but continuous, sets of grades.
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#284986 - 01/08/2006 12:56 Re: English vs American [Re: wfaulk]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Some more:

Handbag = Purse
Waistcoat = Vest

And the pizza hut adverts that are currently being shown in the UK are obviously American because the taglne is "We you the pizza, you do the math"

Which raises 2 points:

1) maths = math
2) "you do the math" is a real americanism
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#284987 - 01/08/2006 13:46 Re: English vs American [Re: furtive]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Quote:
Handbag = Purse

along those same lines:

Rucksack = Backpack

also

Trousers = Pants
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#284988 - 01/08/2006 14:25 Re: English vs American [Re: Cybjorg]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
... pronounced it the American way with a "d" in place of the "t" (as in Wa-der)...


oooh! I do that. Never noticed it for being recognized as an American accent.
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#284989 - 01/08/2006 19:01 Re: English vs American [Re: gbeer]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
When in NY my wife asked for a bottle of waTer in a deli and the guy didn't have a clue what she wanted despite her saying it very clearly a number of times.

Being an old hand at the NY accent (having lived there for a couple of years) I just leaned over and said waDer and he understood me first time

I can't understand how he couldn't understand someone saying it like it is spelt though.
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