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#285210 - 07/08/2006 18:07 Apple Mac Pro & Leopard
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Now I'm drooling! Damn it, why have I just bought loads of airline tickets!

Edit: XCode 3.0 looks pretty interesting too.


Edited by sn00p (07/08/2006 18:49)

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#285211 - 07/08/2006 20:26 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding why so many of the Apple fanboys are disappointed / underwhelmed. Leopard's clearly not going to be as revolutionary as Tiger was, but we'll see it in our lifetimes, which is more than can be said for Vista. I'm not sure what kind of all-seeing, all-doing OS they were hoping for, but I think Leopard looks like a nice, incremental improvement upon Tiger, one that will surely be worth the upgrade price of, oh, 1/3 of what Vista costs whenever it does come out. The "Time Machine" backup stuff alone (assuming it doesn't degrade performance significantly) will surely be worth the price of admission if it saves you from one disastrous "oops".

As for the hardware, I don't really have a need for a Mac desktop or Xserve, but they both look like nice offerings, and they look to be priced competitively. Rumors of Microsoft's demise have been greatly exaggerated in the past, but I do think this is a solid shot across their bow. The jabs at Redmond in general and Vista in particular during the keynote say to me that Apple's really in it to win it.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#285212 - 07/08/2006 20:45 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: tonyc]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
I too was also suprised at the lack of enthusiam about leopard.

Time Machine is worth the price of admission if it works as well as I expect it will, very neat.

What people seem to be forgetting is that there is clearly an amount of stuff (and apple are saying it) that hasn't been demonstrated and is going to remain secret for the time being.

I am in the market for a new machine. I want a new development machine, the mac pro looks awesome, so my credit card is going to take a hit very soon! I was tempted by the mbp, but for my laptop needs my pb G4 1.5Ghz does the trick, then I thought mac mini.....no contest now!

One excited geek here!

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#285213 - 07/08/2006 20:49 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah, as an everyday development machine, it's hard to beat a Mac these days. I haven't read anything about XCode 3.0 yet, but as long as it doesn't take any steps backwards, I'll be happy (it's free, after all.)

I was hoping to go to WWDC this year, but management decided OSCON was a better fit. Maybe next year...
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#285214 - 07/08/2006 21:52 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: tonyc]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
It's on the sneek peek bit of apples site, linked from the right hand side....

But here's the link anyway

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#285215 - 07/08/2006 22:00 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Cool. Somehow I missed that when I looked at the sneak peak stuff earlier. Looking forward to it, for sure.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#285216 - 08/08/2006 02:08 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: tonyc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
I'm glad to see Time Machine as well. Combines the features of GoBack/Volume Shadow Copy (in 2003, and Vista) with a true backup since the data can be stored on an external drive or network share. I'll definitely plop a backup drive in my server for this, since my backups these days aren't automated and I don't manually backup as often as I should.

Spaces also looks to be the right feature set on virtual desktops.

My only disappointment was the Mac Pro lineup. While the dual dual core product would be great for work (if I didn't have a Direct3D and Visual Studio dependancy), I was hoping for a headless Mac with more power then the Mini. A single chip dual core Mac Pro option would have been appreciated, but I guess they don't want to step on the iMac market space too much.

I am curious to see when the iMacs will be bumped to Core 2, everyone else is already talking about it. I guess they may be waiting on the mobile chips to provide a drop in replacement for a speedbump, instead of making a new mainboard to move to the desktop chips.

While not discussed at all in the keynote, Leopard Server looks to be a nice update as well. With calendar server support, this might be a perfect box to replace a Windows server with, even if it is hosting a domain, exchange server, and file shares.

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#285217 - 08/08/2006 05:12 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: tonyc]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Yeah, as an everyday development machine, it's hard to beat a Mac these days.


...unless you're developing for Windows, of course...
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-- roger

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#285218 - 08/08/2006 05:20 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: Roger]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Quote:

...unless you're developing for Windows, of course...


In which case you either boot into windows or use parallels....

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#285219 - 08/08/2006 10:38 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
In which case you either boot into windows or use parallels....

Hmm, I'm very tempted (as a Linux development machine in Parallels rather than Windows) -- it's UKP500 cheaper than an Armari and UKP1000 cheaper than a Dell of the same spec. About the only thing stopping me is that I've already got almost all the bits, and in theory buying a motherboard (Supermicro X7DA8 or similar), two Xeons and some RAM would be UKP1000 cheaper still, and not leave me with a whole unused computer to think what to do with -- but nobody seems to be selling the boards or chips at this point.

(I waited so long for someone to actually sell the H8DS8 or similar and Opteron 280s that the Xeons are now faster again.)

Peter

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#285220 - 08/08/2006 13:43 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: Roger]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
...unless you're developing for Windows, of course...


In which case, you have my condolences.

Seriously, though, what those guys said. I did think of Windows developers when I posted, but with Bootcamp and Parallels available, I think a lot of Redmond devotees will be considering Apple hardware.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#285221 - 08/08/2006 19:07 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
As somebody who's company has just sunk some serious change into PowerPC-based Mac hardware (namely a bunch of XServes) and someone who's not watched any of videos about Leopard. I'll be very interested to see how long until Apple's entire range is Intel based. Especially when our playout and production won't run on Intel machines currently!

BTW, Time Machine looks really cool. I assume that means that you never really delete anything. What if you want to clear space on your machine?

EDIT: Wow, just configured my 'dream' machine, I say configured. I just clicked the most expensive option for each thing. A mere snip at just over £11.5K
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#285222 - 08/08/2006 22:54 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: andym]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Apple's entire range is Intel based as of today. At least if you don't count the iPod.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#285223 - 09/08/2006 05:18 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: andym]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
Quote:

BTW, Time Machine looks really cool. I assume that means that you never really delete anything. What if you want to clear space on your machine?



I think the general idea with time machine is that you have an external drive which you dedicate to it, at least, that's how I'll be operating it.

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#285224 - 09/08/2006 06:15 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: hybrid8]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
Apple's entire range is Intel based as of today. At least if you don't count the iPod.

Yup. The PowerMac G5 was the last model in their product range which wasn't Intel based.

I do have to admit, the Mac Pro does look very nice. I'd probably end up running Windows on it however

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#285225 - 09/08/2006 06:17 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: andym]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Quote:
BTW, Time Machine looks really cool. I assume that means that you never really delete anything. What if you want to clear space on your machine?

I would expect it to flag stuff you want deleted and when you want to write new data it overwrites the oldest flagged files. This way you can recover things you've deleted recently as long as you haven't written lots of data to fill up the drive since then.

That is what I expect anyway, I may be wrong. I'd imagine it would just be a glorified undelete.
_________________________
Hussein

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#285226 - 09/08/2006 17:47 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sein]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Based on the information on Apple's site, it works more like an incremental backup program. It first saves a complete backup of the system to the external drive or server, then any file change is sent along to the same location. If I open a text file and edit some of it, a diff is generated and sent to the backup device. I'd imagine once the drive becomes full, it will start deleting the oldest incremental change files.

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#285227 - 09/08/2006 19:15 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: drakino]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Ah right! Thanks for that. The Apple page is here which explains how it works. It is a shame that it would not work so well without a second big drive or partition to backup to. I wouldn't realistically be able to use it on my Macbook for example without upgrading the drive to a bigger one.
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Hussein

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#285228 - 09/08/2006 20:00 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sein]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Hopefully it works on a network share. And hopefully Apple fixes the probems associated with waking your machine when a network share is missing.

I'm using Tri-Backup right now as I found it to be the best backup solution available for Mac OS. Its interface is not the most elegant, but it's far better than some. And its features are robust. I started using it with the intention of setting up an automated system using evolutive data but have since only been using it manually. I think Apple's solution will obsolete a lot of backup software and likely open up a market for backup-enhancement and management software using its data.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#285229 - 09/08/2006 20:47 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sein]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Quote:
Backup Disk: Change the drive or volume you’re backing up to. Or back up to a Mac OS X server computer.


So yes, it can do this to a network drive. I am hoping that when it can't reach the disk/network share, it buffers the changes neede dto then later drop off when the disk is connected again.

The main issue they seem to be attempting to address here is hard drive failure, and then user mistakes second. So it makes sense to really push this as needing an external drive so that it can be a true backup, and not a false sense of security by backing up to a second partition on the same hard disk.

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#285230 - 03/09/2006 15:57 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: peter]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
I think the expression those modern young people use is "FTW".

Peter

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#285231 - 03/09/2006 17:00 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: peter]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
I just deployed a dual 5150 dell server this week, and those things fly like nobody's bussiness. The thing has 4GB of ram and a 15k rpm system disk, and it was impressive. It's an SQL server with about 16 users at any given time, and the extrememly non techie employees were thanking me as I left the office and after I left for the speed improvement over their old dual core P4 server.

Of course, all it did was make me want a Mac Pro. I'm starting to look for a job, perhaps I can write one into my contract.

Matthew

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#285232 - 05/09/2006 04:06 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: sn00p]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
don't think the double drive front is as sexy as the old power pc single door one
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P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#285233 - 15/09/2006 16:47 Re: Apple Mac Pro & Leopard [Re: peter]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
And just so the definitive answer is on the Web somewhere (I hadn't been able to find this out in advance, despite months of trying), Xorg 7.1.0 will drive the panel at its native 2560x1600 even with the open-source "nv" driver -- you don't need the closed-source "nvidia" one. Very modern Xorg does need an "Option DisplayBlanking" line in the Monitor section of xorg.conf, though.

Peter

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