#286412 - 06/09/2006 13:58
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Schido]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Looks about right, though some of you data points are in the sea.
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#286413 - 06/09/2006 14:12
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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Yes, i noticed that too. But i guess this map is just inacurate, cause they're on land on my palm.
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#286414 - 06/09/2006 14:22
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Schido]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Where did you get that set of speedtrap data from ?
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#286415 - 06/09/2006 15:56
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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It's the set from pocketgpsworldBut i found it Here
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#286416 - 06/09/2006 17:00
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Schido]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Someone want to explain to me why anyone would need to know speed camera locations in England? Because when I was there, every speed camera was clearly marked well ahead of the camera's location.
Maybe I asked this question before, but I don't remember the answer.
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#286418 - 06/09/2006 17:24
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Speed cameras are marked ahead of its location? Really? I've not seen that - you get general camera signs. In Scotland the Gatsos are painted bright red/yellow. Somel cameras aren't always a Gatso. Theres a Truvelo and SPECS and then theres mobile locations (where Police hide behind hedges). Its handy to know where these locations may be. Even if they are marked very well, they may be obscured by trees, signs, buses etc. I nearly went past one today and I hadn't seen it because I was busy avoiding an idiot in a truck.
Edited by Phil. (06/09/2006 17:26)
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#286419 - 06/09/2006 20:49
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Because when I was there, every speed camera was clearly marked well ahead of the camera's location.
The speed camera signs don't necessarily mean that there are any speed cameras on that stretch of road.
There is a legal requirement (I think) that the cameras be painted yellow, which makes them fairly obvious, but they're getting smaller, and they're sometimes tucked behind other roadsigns, which means that you sometimes don't see them.
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-- roger
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#286420 - 06/09/2006 21:44
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
but they're getting smaller, and they're sometimes tucked behind other roadsigns, which means that you sometimes don't see them.
I thought it was also a legal requirement to have them visible from the roadside? There used to be a couple on a stretch of road near me that were hidden directly behind road signs, they've since been moved to make them visible from the road.
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#286421 - 07/09/2006 04:30
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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There is no such legal requirement, they can hide them as much as they want.
The reason people think that there is a requirement is because of the rules around "Safety Camera Partnerships". If an area chooses to operate a camera partnership (where the local police get a portion of the speeding fines) then the cameras have to be clearly visible. Even this isn't a legal requirement as such, it is just part of the rules of signing up to the scheme.
Not all areas signed up to the scheme, in those areas all the fine goes to the treasury and they have no compulsion to make the cameras visible.
That said, it is fairly rare now to see one hidden behind trees or signs.
So who here in the UK has picked up the most speeding points over time ? I've only had 3, I managed to get them a couple of months after buying my Subaru Impreza, the temptation to cruise at just under 100 on the motorway was just to much for me for a while...
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#286422 - 07/09/2006 05:10
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I got 3 in my works van doing 36mph in a 30 zone, the camera (mobile in the back of a white van) was placed 100 yards before a 50 zone with the 50 signs on either side of the road clearly visable ahead, there was no foot path on either side of the road to my right there was a lake and to my left an empty field.
I asked a friend of mine who is a JP what the best thing to do was, he told me to suck it up and take the points even if it was unfair "that's life"
I think speed cameras are a total joke, when you get such up to date info on your GPS you hardcore speeder still doesn't get caught but someone going home from work does.
Cheers
Cris.
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#286423 - 07/09/2006 07:33
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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I had 3 points which came off in 2003, I got them when I was caught doing 96 on the M62 in my mums Fiat Punto. According to my mum (who's a JP) I should've got 6 points but I assume because I didn't argue with them they let me get away with 3. I've never driven that fast on the motorway since.
SWMBO does that sort of speed all the time on the motorway and has never been stopped once.
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#286424 - 07/09/2006 08:11
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
I had 3 points which came off in 2003, I got them when I was caught doing 96 on the M62 in my mums Fiat Punto.
96MPH in a Fiat Punto? That must have been quite a scary ride to say the least!
Quote:
According to my mum (who's a JP) I should've got 6 points but I assume because I didn't argue with them they let me get away with 3. I've never driven that fast on the motorway since.
Yup. Never try to argue or be offensive with whoever has just stopped you. I've got a friend who unfortunately does traffic enforcement and he told that if you piss him off then you're going to get the maximum penalty possible.
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#286425 - 07/09/2006 08:32
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Uhmmm - I guess I have had 15 points over the last 18 years. Not so many recently, but when I were a youngster I used to have a job where I drove over 50k miles a year, and being invincible it definitely made sense to me that if I could do most of them at 120 I would get much more spare time than if I did them at 60. Plus, my company car was an Xr3i turbo:-) These days I try and do most of my fast stuff on a track, or with a policeman in the car...it works much better that way! Speed cameras - bloody hate the accident-causing, road-safety-awareness-decreasing pieces of sh*t! Visit http://www.safespeed.org or http://www.iam.org.uk and help support our campaign for a sensible approach to road safety.
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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#286426 - 07/09/2006 08:54
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Quote:
I had 3 points which came off in 2003, I got them when I was caught doing 96 on the M62 in my mums Fiat Punto.
96MPH in a Fiat Punto? That must have been quite a scary ride to say the least!
Surprisingly smooth. Needless to say my Mum wasn't impressed!
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Andy M
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#286427 - 07/09/2006 08:56
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Plus, my company car was an Xr3i turbo:-)
Was that a special edition or was it an RS Turbo? If so, Series 1 or 2?
Quote:
These days I try and do most of my fast stuff on a track, or with a policeman in the car...it works much better that way!
How do you get a policeman in your car?
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Andy M
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#286428 - 07/09/2006 09:56
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Schido]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
I Just downloaded the gatso locations, is it reelly this bad? 
[snip]
Yes, but if you're driving on a car with foreign plates or hiring a car using a foreign licence then you won't hear anything - they are only interested in a quick result - ie. pay £60 thank-you. Foreign drivers need to be summonsed to court, and that is too much like hard work.
For UK people getting speeding and decriminalised parking tickets then I can reccommend www.pepipoo.com, being a rather regular poster on there.
Gareth
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#286429 - 07/09/2006 09:57
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
How do you get a policeman in your car?
Take the elephants out first.
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#286430 - 07/09/2006 10:05
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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I suppose I'll chip in and say that in Queensland, Australia all speed cameras are "mobile" i.e. they park a car/van/4x4 on the side of the road. Here the signs are *after* the camera. "Speed Camera In Use". WTF is the point of that? In NSW there are fixed cameras and the signs before them but not in Queensland. Not sure about the other states. And my most reecent ticket was 8 points in one hit making 14 points in about 2 years resulting in a 6 month suspension  Been driving again for a month now. I've learnt a little but now spend more time watching the speedo than the road sometimes. That's having an M3 for you
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#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#286431 - 07/09/2006 10:56
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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We have one county in the UK, Hampshire, which also relies entirely on mobile speed cameras. Most counties have a mixture of fixed and mobile.
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#286432 - 07/09/2006 11:39
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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In this part South Carolina, Cleetus and JimBob still chase you in a car. No cameras at all. Keeps 'em from getting too bored and lets them play policeman in their new unmarked mustang.
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#286433 - 07/09/2006 11:44
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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addict
Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
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Do you remember the 'How to beat the speed camera' episode of Top Gear?
Do you remember how they did that? and what car they used?
Guess what... <grin>
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Running twin 30's
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#286434 - 07/09/2006 13:01
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
We have one county in the UK, Hampshire, which also relies entirely on mobile speed cameras. Most counties have a mixture of fixed and mobile.
Sadly Hants installed a load of Truvelo's in May 2003. I think they have one Gatso north of Winchester.
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#286435 - 07/09/2006 14:20
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Schido]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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I've heard that the 'trigger speed' is actually very close to the posted speed limit- something like +2mph.
Is this true?
Most car speedometers are only accurate to plus/minus 10%!
and re: foreign plates:
A motorcycle riding friend in the UK has his bike registered in Germany and in England. While in the UK he rides with the German plate and swaps it when he goes to Germany. Sort of silly, but that's what kids do.
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#286436 - 07/09/2006 14:29
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
I've heard that the 'trigger speed' is actually very close to the posted speed limit- something like +2mph.
Is this true?
Most car speedometers are only accurate to plus/minus 10%!
The guideline is "10% + 2mph", in a 30 it is 35, in a 70 it is 79. In reality most fixed cameras seem to be set higher than this. There are many fixed cameras that are either dummys or very rarely have film in them.
In UK speedos have to over read by upto 10% when the car is new. They are not allowed to under read. All the cars I have driven in the UK over read by 10% or more.
Edited by andy (07/09/2006 14:31)
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#286437 - 07/09/2006 15:54
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Sadly not RS - but at that age it was easily fast enough.
To get policemen in your car, do lots of police driver training, or go to the same track days, or get em to pull you over:-)
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#286438 - 07/09/2006 16:01
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
In UK speedos have to over read by upto 10% when the car is new. They are not allowed to under read. All the cars I have driven in the UK over read by 10% or more.
It's a little bit different to that, but similar:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2001-03-12a.59.3
The accuracy is usually the same across any make, I believe there are some manufacturers who supply vehicles which are pretty accurate.
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#286439 - 07/09/2006 16:04
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: frog51]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Sadly not RS - but at that age it was easily fast enough.
To get policemen in your car, do lots of police driver training, or go to the same track days, or get em to pull you over:-)
Most IAM branches have ex-police instructors and traffic officers, that is the easiest way to get taught to the same standards. Next best thing is a copy of Roadcraft.
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#286440 - 07/09/2006 16:33
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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I know the Speedo/Odo accuracy of my Honda del Sol with stock size tires was poor- indicated was 10% higher than true. I changed to a larger diameter tire and now I'm much closer to true. (GPS self-tested)
Of course, this change has also affected the torque loads on the drive train and brakes as well as affected handling because the CoG is higher. I've done various upgrades to alleviate these, however.
In the states it's pretty common for SUVs and 4x4s to have much larger than normal tires. It's really up to the individual to understand the changes to their vehicle.
Are such tire size changes allowed in the UK? I know in Germany they are usually not.
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#286441 - 07/09/2006 18:48
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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In the US, there aren't many, if any, speed cameras. At least I've not seen any.
What we do have an abundance of are "red light cameras". It always seems that they're in places where people tend to push yellow lights, as opposed to places where accidents tend to happen. Also, they're often installed under a system where they're run by private organizations who provide the data to the local government, and then get kickbacks from the government based on the number of fines they collect. There's not a conflict of interest there at all. Nope.
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#286442 - 07/09/2006 19:19
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1033
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
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There were some here in la county, california. Not any more, tho.
We have something here call the "california hesitation", where no one goes for about five seconds after the light turns green, to give all the folks running the red a chance to go.
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#286443 - 08/09/2006 05:59
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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After my IAM training I spent a while self calibrating my speedo from GPS and found with my standard tyres at the recommended pressure an indicated 33mph was 30, but an indicated 68mph was 60! Gives a better realisation of exactly what speed you were doing, if for some reason you had to discuss this fact with a uniformed officer...ahem
Actually met one of my closest police friends in this sort of situation. I was roundabout playing and he spotted me, but after discussion he realised I was exactly on the speed limit and although drifting trough each roundabout, I was staying in my lane and obviously in control. Turns out he was an IAM examiner and went to some of the same track days and a general good guy.
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#286444 - 08/09/2006 18:21
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: larry818]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Heh. I learned the california hesitation pretty quick. I vaguely recall hearing my driver's ed instructor (back in Canada), mention that you should always double check that the cross traffic is actually stopping, but the why of it is so much more obvious here. What really irks me isn't the folks running the red, but the idiots who think that they're entitled to squeeze four cars through a left turn after the light turns red, even if they hadn't entered the intersection yet (of course, I think this is partly due to the pathetic lack of advance turn signals on traffic lights).
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#286445 - 08/09/2006 18:28
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
an indicated 33mph was 30, but an indicated 68mph was 60!
I think we had another discussion here on the BBS about this very topic a while back.
My Honda speedo seems to indicate that it's deliberately set to read exactly 10 percent high at all times. So:
- 33 mph is really 30
- 66 mph is really 60
- 88 mph is really 80
Checking this against GPS units, "your speed is" radar emplacements, and speedometer check markers, all seem to support this theory.
Someone on the BBS suggested the following reason: Car manufacturers get fined if it's discovered that their speedos are reading too low, but not if the speedos are reading too high.
I personally think it's just a conspiracy to trick people into driving slower.
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#286446 - 08/09/2006 18:56
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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5mm of wear on your tire reduces your speed from 60mph to just barely over 59mph (at least with my 235/45-17 sample set). Just for reference.
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#286447 - 08/09/2006 23:28
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
5mm of wear on your tire reduces your speed from 60mph to just barely over 59mph (at least with my 235/45-17 sample set). Just for reference.
Yeah... the math checks pretty close. 17 inch rim, probably about 26" overall tire diameter =~ 6500 mm. 5mm wear = 10mm reduction in diameter, 10/6500 = 1.5% reduction in wheel diameter. 60 MPH minus 1.5% = 59.1 MPH.
tanstaafl.
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#286448 - 09/09/2006 01:34
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Sheesh, how bored ARE you?
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#286449 - 10/09/2006 04:07
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Also, I just checked. My speedo matches my GPS receiver within about 1MPH at 75MPH.
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#286450 - 11/09/2006 21:04
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
Sheesh, how bored ARE you?
Hey, that's not boring! I find such things to be very compelling, actually. It's a lot of fun to see how numbers work out in real life.
It's a shame that I am too old to claim to be a geek.
tanstaafl.
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#286451 - 11/09/2006 21:35
Re: UK speed cams
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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I was just giving you a hard time anyway.  It IS interesting, just the last thing I would think to do.
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