#293702 - 13/02/2007 09:01
UK ADSL recommendations?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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We moved house at the weekend, and when I rang up Pipex to transfer my DSL account, they said that I'd have to cancel the old account and apply for a new one.
Sounds like a good way to encourage people to shop around for alternative suppliers, which is what I'm thinking of doing.
To be honest, I'm happy with Pipex. They're not the cheapest, but they are extremely reliable (which is a good thing, since customer support is crap). However, since it's going to take 7-10 days to get reconnected anyway, I might as well see if anyone has any recommendations.
I'm not interested in Sky or Orange or TalkTalk's "free" services. We probably won't get Sky, and the three of them aren't getting good reviews at the moment.
Similarly, we're not currently considering cable.
So, can anyone recommend residential DSL, at least 8Mbps, no bandwidth limits, preferably with a static IP (for SSH/remote desktop)? Price should be less-than or comparable with Pipex -- i.e. about £15+VAT a month. Reliability is my top requirement -- I work from home fairly regularly these days.
We've got a BT line. Or at least, we should have one this afternoon.
Oh, and we're in West London now.
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-- roger
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#293703 - 13/02/2007 09:31
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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You're not going to find 8Mb ADSL that really has no download limit for £15 a month. The Pipex one for example has a 2GB limit at that price. Even the services that claim no limits have them when you read a little more of the small print. Plusnet for example talks about "No fixed download limits" on their £15 Plus product, in reality once you hit 4GB peak traffic they start reducing your download speed. Plusnet (and I few other providers at this price point) are also great at changing the rules every six months, often without telling the customers  As I heavy uploader/downloader I have been caught out far too often by the goal post moving. I now stick to an ISP that is completely transparent about their limits, but charge a sensible price (i.e. it is not as low as £15 a month).
Edited by andy (13/02/2007 09:38)
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#293704 - 13/02/2007 09:42
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
You're not going to find 8Mb ADSL that really has no download limit for £15 a month. The Pipex one for example has a 2GB limit at that price.
Ah. My bad. I didn't drill down into the web page properly -- you're right. The Pipex Max account (which is what I was looking at) is only £15 if you then also pay for a bunch of telephone crap.
Unless you're saying that Pipex Max isn't really unlimited (and it says it is, but there might be some small print I'm missing), I'll amend that price limit to around £25+VAT a month, which is what I'm currently paying for my Pipex home-office thing, anyway.
Thanks for catching that one, Andy.
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-- roger
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#293705 - 13/02/2007 09:43
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
an ISP that is completely transparent about their limits, but charge a sensible price (i.e. it is not as low as £15 a month).
You use A&A, right? I think I've asked in the past when I was looking into hosting.
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#293706 - 13/02/2007 09:53
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I do. The great things about A&A are:
- they don't assume you are a muppet
- they have no upload limits at all
- they have no evening download limits at all
- they have no weekend download limits at all
- you can carry your peak time download allowance or over usage over to the next month
- they give you as many IP address as you need
- they are good at badgering BT to fix things (and monitor all of their customer lines so they know there is a problem before you do)
- they give you access to all the stats that BT provide them on your line
Unfotunately they probably don't meet your cost and working at home requirements. Their peak hours, when the download limits apply, are 8am-6pm which is unlikely to fit well with working at home if you use a fair bit of bandwidth connecting to the office.
£22.97 + VAT will get you 3GB of peak download, £29.78 + VAT will get you 5GB of peak download. They are as reliable as any other ADSL ISP I have used (Plusnet, Easynet and Zen).
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#293707 - 13/02/2007 10:13
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I use A&A as well and haven't had any problems with them at all. If for some reason you do go over your peak download limit they'll start charging you for that extra download. Obviously this isn't too great if you do it regularly but if its just a one off thing then its fine. Quote:
they don't assume you are a muppet
I think this one is worth it alone.
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#293708 - 13/02/2007 10:26
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
Quote:
they don't assume you are a muppet
I think this one is worth it alone.
Dunno, they called me Kermit last time I rang (I came across a complete tit in support there, first time though and I've now got 5 lines with them)
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#293709 - 13/02/2007 10:26
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
If for some reason you do go over your peak download limit they'll start charging you for that extra download. Obviously this isn't too great if you do it regularly but if its just a one off thing then its fine.
and, unless you are on 1G limit, they won't charge you until you have gone 10G over your limit in a month. If it is under 10G you can carry it forward for as many months as you like, until your monthly allowance had mopped up all the over usage. So for example on the 5G tarrif you could alternate each month between 8G and 2G of peak downloads and never actually pay any extra.
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#293710 - 13/02/2007 10:35
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
they don't assume you are a muppet
I think this one is worth it alone.
Dunno, they called me Kermit last time I rang (I came across a complete tit in support there, first time though and I've now got 5 lines with them)
I've called once and had the call actually diverted to some guys house. It sounded like a childrens party in the background. That said, he did know what he was doing and fixed my problem in 5 minutes 
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#293711 - 13/02/2007 11:04
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Ah. My bad. I didn't drill down into the web page properly -- you're right. The Pipex Max account (which is what I was looking at) is only £15 if you then also pay for a bunch of telephone crap.
http://www.pipex.net/legal/heavy-usage.php
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#293712 - 13/02/2007 12:35
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Oh, and one final thing in their favour. They often manage to get people connected within a day or two of ordering, though it does depend on how busy your exchange it.
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#293713 - 13/02/2007 13:05
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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I use BT Business Broadband which is reliable and fast with no limits, but it's probably outside your price range (my company pays for mine  )
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#293714 - 13/02/2007 14:29
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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It sounds like your internet solutions are setup the same way our cell phone plans are.
I don't know that I could stand such limits on my internet.
In about 4 hours last night I downloaded over 6 gig. That's an atypical night, but my monthly stats are definitely above the limits you mentioned.
$59.99/mo 12mb down, 1mb up.
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#293715 - 13/02/2007 14:31
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
We moved house at the weekend, and when I rang up Pipex to transfer my DSL account, they said that I'd have to cancel the old account and apply for a new one.
Sounds like a good way to encourage people to shop around for alternative suppliers, which is what I'm thinking of doing.
It also ensures that people don't keep carrying good deals from the past when them as they move. Time Warner offered me a pretty good price based on some deal that will be valid for as long as I am at the same place. If I move, I have to go with whatever new pricing structures they have later.
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#293716 - 13/02/2007 14:41
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I have broadband 2 lines here at home, one with Zen (fixed IP) the other with BT Retail. I've not had a moments bother with either service. BT is over priced and over featured, loads of useels crap that I would never use (BT Broadband Talk = pap) and Zen has been 100% spot on so far, but they do have a download useage limit of 20Gb. What exactly is your average download thoughput? Do you really need an unlimited package? From an Openreach point of view (part of BT I now work for that will come out and fix your broadband) it really doesn't matter who you pick, the repair process is the same for everyone, inc BT themselves. But if you want to go really over the top ask youor SP about the enhanced care packages (if they offer them) we will be out with you within 4 hours (24 hours a day) on some of those Cheers Cris.
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#293717 - 13/02/2007 14:50
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
I don't know that I could stand such limits on my internet.
In about 4 hours last night I downloaded over 6 gig. That's an atypical night, but my monthly stats are definitely above the limits you mentioned.
$59.99/mo 12mb down, 1mb up.
You would be screwed on most consumer UK DSL ISPs, but not on the particular ISP that we have been talking about (A&A).
They do have very low download limits, but the limits only apply to 8am-6pm Monday to Friday. Outside of those times they are totally unlimited.
I am on their 5gig plan, but download (and upload) upto 100gig a month:
$94/mo 8mb down, 800k up, 5gig peak downloads.
If I didn't have to download the odd ISO file on weekday peak times I could get away with the 1gig plan:
$62/mo 8mb down, 800k up, 1gig peak downloads.
And if I could do without 800k up it would be:
$38/mo 8mb down, 400k up, 1gig peak downloads.
Most UK consumer ISPs have peak hours of more like 4pm-2am and either limit your downloads during this period or throttle bandwidth on ftp and p2p. Many of had "unlimited" products until recently, but as soon as people started using them as unlimited they had to start making their products a little less "unlimited", though some of them still advertise them as such.
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#293718 - 13/02/2007 23:55
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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I am with freedom2surf and am just about to move to A&A. f2s have been ok - it's £19.99/month for 20Gb (unmetered 1-6am), and I barely do 5Gb of the 20 anyway. The annoying thing is that on the odd occasion I want to use BitTorrent or some fast HTTP downloads their traffic shaping seems to keep the speeds much lower than my 8 meg line speed.
I got my MAC today but my billing cycle is the 17th and on the phone they said it would be five working days so I will arrange it for this time next month.
I should add that I am always out during the day, so 1Gb will be fine, even over the christmas break I think.
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#293719 - 14/02/2007 06:24
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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A&A typically waive the peak downloads over part of the Christmas period anyway.
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#293720 - 14/02/2007 13:47
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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BT thus far use bandwidth throttling on my line when I try to use any bittorrent client, however in running a cost / benefit analysis between the very few providers in my area they beat everyone. So, sadly, I have signed up with them again. They have upped my connection from 512k to 3Meg and reduced the cost and increased my limit to what is called unlimited but appears to be around 100G per month looking at the contract. Only about 23 quid a month though, including free weekend calls and one of the silly broadband wireless phones on a separate number.
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#293721 - 14/02/2007 14:01
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Are you using default BitTorrent ports? If so, you might want to use some other random port. I find it hard to believe that they're spending a protocol analyser on detecting BitTorrent streams, but I could be wrong.
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#293722 - 14/02/2007 21:50
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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UK ISPs do indeed use protocol analysing boxes to throttle and prioritize different types of traffic. Most UK ISPs that throttle p2p traffic aren't fooled by simply changing ports. The makers of some of the boxes have even had good success at stopping and throttling encrypted p2p traffic. Plusnet for example use kit from these guys http://www.ellacoya.com/ though I believe people like Cisco also do similar boxes.
Edited by andy (14/02/2007 21:58)
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#293723 - 15/02/2007 09:13
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
£22.97 + VAT will get you 3GB of peak download
Went with A&A in the end. Partly because they're only slightly more expensive than Pipex, but mostly because they claim to be able to hook me up in a couple of days, rather than the 7-10 days that Pipex were offering.
I need my broadband fix now, dammit!
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#293724 - 15/02/2007 10:06
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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I've not had any 2 day starts from them, every single one has taken 5 days.
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#293725 - 15/02/2007 13:03
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
I've not had any 2 day starts from them, every single one has taken 5 days.
Yeah, well, it's worse than that. BT won't actually disconnect the previous DSL service from the line until the 20th. Then it'll be about 5 days past that.
Great.
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#293726 - 15/02/2007 13:15
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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I've had the same happen to me before, not easy to change ISPs
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#293727 - 15/02/2007 14:08
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tahir]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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My last change was fine (BT to freedom2surf), I think the migration was scheduled for 4-5 days after my request and it all moved over fine.
My next month's subs are going out on the 17th, not enough time to migrate really, so I'm going to put the order through and request it happens on the week of the 12th March.
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#293728 - 15/02/2007 14:35
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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It took me 9 weeks to get my line cleared ready to place a new order when I moved ADSL ISP the first time (from Easynet). Thankfully I expected there to be big problems (though not 9 weeks), so I had a second phone installed and ordered ADSL on that before canceling the other ADSL service. Thankfully thinks are much better nowadays with cancellations or migrations...
...it can still be a painful process though.
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#293729 - 21/05/2007 22:02
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
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Some months ago, Mark Lord posted a screenshot of a Linux-based ADSL diagnostic tool that gave a lot of information about the ADSL connection and, if my memory serves me, line quality etc.
I've been looking for that thread for the past hour and I can't find it (I had meant to bookmark it) - does anyone have a link (please)?
A friend of mine has recently upgraded from 2MB to 8MB ADSL. He is experiencing instability problems so I'm planning on putting a rig together and testing his connection. Any pointers or advice on how to diagnose ADSL line problems? He was perfectly stable at 2MB. I've told him to replace the filter and unplug everything other than the modem for diagnostic purposes.
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#293730 - 22/05/2007 03:40
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: AndrewT]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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DMT, DSL-Modem Tool http://dmt.mhilfe.de/ (still no english site i think)
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#293731 - 22/05/2007 04:18
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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How long is it since he was converted ? It can take a few days for BT to pick a sensible speed.
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#293732 - 22/05/2007 04:37
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: AndrewT]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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There is a 10 day period that is used to pick the best speed for the line, I would remove all wiring that doesn't need to be on the line, and leave it alone until the 10 days is up.
Cheers
Cris.
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#293733 - 22/05/2007 09:47
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Cris]
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new poster
Registered: 07/04/2001
Posts: 23
Loc: Lancs UK
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I believe the 10 days is only a guide as to when it should have settled down. If after 10 days you put more equipment/extensions back on the line and they cause any kind of interference then the line speed will re-adapt. I have had this happen and as a result now have no extensions just to get the speed up. I can't have my sky+ box connected either or I drop to 2 meg over a period of time from the 5 meg I get without sky connected. I've gone through all the suggestions of shortests cable not near any sources of interference ,changed filters etc etc, both Sky and BT have also been involved. I have just given up and disconnected it all.
Mark.
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#293734 - 22/05/2007 10:09
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Rufus]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Sky digiboxes are notorious for screwing up the telephone line. Whatever softmodem is in them isn't very well designed.
My digibox has been disconnected for years now. I don't get PPV and I've only got 1 digibox.
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#293735 - 22/05/2007 10:22
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: Rufus]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I think the 10 day period is more than just a recommendation, 10 days is the length of time that the exchange equipment is setup for to look for an initial stable line speed. I'm sure Cris will correct me if I'm wrong, he is a BT engineer afterall...
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#293736 - 22/05/2007 10:28
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I thought it constantly checked the line? It averages it over a certain time period and then decides on your speed.
I know people that have had sudden speed drops which took a long time to go back up because they screwed up their line for a couple of days.
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#293737 - 22/05/2007 10:38
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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You are right, it does check continuously, but there is also a point at the 10 day mark where BT record the line speed you have achieved and that is then used by them as a benchmark of what is a stable speed for your line if you have to complain of reduced lines speeds later. http://aaisp.net.uk/maxmagic.htmlSo I was wrong, there isn't some magic 10 day period at which point the line monitoring changes, but the 10 day mark is still significant.
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#293738 - 22/05/2007 12:41
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I thought it constantly checked the line? It averages it over a certain time period and then decides on your speed.
With the xDSL folks here in Canada, there are two things that contribute to this.
First, is the assigned line profile, which is set by the loop provider (telco), and which gives an absolute upper limit on performance. Getting this changed is a difficult exercise in patience, and may have a fee associated with additional change requests. Apparently, end-users in Australia can use a web-based interface to adjust their own line profiles -- way to go!
Next, are the session-to-session negotiated tones between the two modems. These can vary over time according to current line conditions.
Edited by mlord (22/05/2007 12:42)
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#293739 - 22/05/2007 13:58
Re: UK ADSL recommendations?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
First, is the assigned line profile, which is set by the loop provider (telco), and which gives an absolute upper limit on performance. Getting this changed is a difficult exercise in patience, and may have a fee associated with additional change requests. Apparently, end-users in Australia can use a web-based interface to adjust their own line profiles -- way to go!
BT will do this automatically for you over time. If your signal improves then they'll try to increase your cap. If it gets worse and you're constantly trying to resync then they'll lower your cap.
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