http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyWSJ/wsj2-dow.html

I seriously hope you rethink assisting microsoft in their
attempt to eliminate MP3.

Paul

I rather think that's parnoia talking - MS have no way to prevent a 3rd party codec from encoding at a higher rate than 56kbit.

1.1 has WMA. It had WMA before empeg got bought by Rio, and now fits in even better with the Rio range, as they all have MP3 & WMA support; when they get AAC, the car player will too I suspect.

MP3 isn't going to go away; there's no need to re-encode into WMA, and as storage gets larger and cheaper, there are few size advantages (and no audio quality ones at high bitrates). We're not going to drop WMA just because MS are going to throw their weight (and/or marketing budget) around - they do this all the time anyway.

Hugo

This is so utterly laughable. What I find most amusing about the article is that it's written from the viewpoint of an old-school businessman living in a closed-system world.

Here's an example quote: "The industry doesn't want [MP3] pushed, and Microsoft and RealNetworks don't want it pushed. The consumer is going to eat what he's given."

This is an incorrect assumption from someone who doesn't understand the technology. It's like trying to equate PC audio technology with car manufacturers: "If we only build SUVs, then consumers will only buy SUVs." But we know that's not the way it works.

It's too late for Microsoft to attempt to exert any sort of control over MP3, it's already got a life of its own. Any barriers they attempt to erect will be circumvented. Just look at OpenGL as an example. They tried to kill it in favor of DirectX, but oh, hey look, the Quake engine games still use OpenGL and they've sold a bazillion copies.

___________
Tony Fabris

> I rather think that's parnoia talking - MS have no way to
> prevent a 3rd party codec from encoding at a higher rate
> than 56kbit.

I know they don't. They don't need to do that.

If you use the Opera web browser it identifies itself as IE
by default, since many sites don't work otherwise. This
came about in the same way: through their desktop monopoly
microsoft bribed other companies to include their technology
and exclude others.

Same thing is happening with WMA. You're including it because
it's free. Yeah right.

Paul

"You're including it because it's free. Yeah right."

I'm not sure if I'm reading your sarcasm correctly, but it is my understanding that Empeg paid a licensing fee for WMA. They're including it because it is a viable format. I am personally impressed with the sound of WMA at lower bitrates. It is not as good as my VBR MP3s, but I use it for my portable to get longer playing times...

Most of the screaming and running in circles about this news item is misplaced, in my opinion. They are trying to romance the RIAA with their "secure" format. The idea that they are going to lock any use of high bitrate MP3s in future operating systems...? Unfounded paranoia, me thinks...


Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue
"Honey, you're wasting ammo..."

Anybody notice the article is dated one year ago?
Anything changed in the year gone by?

Mk2 #105 12g blue
12g full.............. waiting for 30g prices to drop

No, that article was written on Wednesday. The page says April 11, 2000 but that is an error (Y2K bug?) It mentions Windows XP, and Windows XP didn't exist a year ago, even as a fart in Bill Gates' butt cheeks. Slashdot also linked to this article this week, and we all know Slashdot is never wrong.

-Tony
MkII #554

Slashdot also linked to this article this week, and we all know Slashdot is never wrong.

I seriously hope this was dripping with as much sarcasm as I would have intended it to be if I had written it.... ;)

(O|||||O)

Geez, the only beef I have with MS is their damn Word documents can't open in Wordperfect. Can't even copy and paste. What the hell is up with that?

Anyone know a way around this?

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Geez, the only beef I have with MS is their damn Word documents can't open in Wordperfect. Can't even copy and paste. What the hell is up with that?

Anyone know a way around this?

Yeah. 1. Don't use Word. 2. If somebody sends you a Word document, send it back unread and ask them to resend it in a sensible format.

Sorry if that's not very helpful but it tends to work remarkably well.

Borislav

Oh, believe me, I understand. What's even worse is the guy who sent me this document sent it to me in Works format first. You could load it into WP, notepad, etc, but it was all jumbled up.

This past summer at work, my boss asked me to convert a loooong Word file, full of columns, bulleted lists, and highlighting, into Wordperfect. It was not fun trying to replicate it from scratch.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

When I have to read a MS Word documnet from home (I have to have MS Office at work because my clients do ), I use this site. It is fully functional online demo of one of these guys' products.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

When I have to read a MS Word documnet from home ... I use this site.

Wow, this is really cool. Now I can both read any Word docs I receive and send them back pretending to not have done so.

Borislav

No, that article was written on Wednesday. The page says April 11, 2000 but that is an error (Y2K bug?) It mentions Windows XP, and Windows XP didn't exist a year ago, even as a fart in Bill Gates' butt cheeks.

Well, the name XP didn't exist then, but the OS did (with the name Windows 2000 still in most places, only a few places had the Whistler code name in it).

MS is always working on an OS. The Win2000 code had already gone through a few daily build cycles by the time it hit store shelves.

But anyway on the topic, this will put a minor crimp in MP3 creating by low level consumers, since they are the type to just use whatever is there in the OS. Really dosen't bother me too much, since it won't in any way effect my CD ripping.

Many computers are coming standard with MusicMatch too. That company has really gotten a foothold on the market. It will be in thier interests to keep mp3 around.

12gig Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

What will SonicBlue do several years from now when WMA support is considered a "must have" in order to effectively compete in the marketplace and Microsoft tells them "replace Linux with Windows CE or risk paying a higher license fee for WMA". Or what if the WMA libraries are suddenly no longer available for Linux? Or "the WMA libraries are still avilable for LInux, but they cost more" etc. Laugh and call it paranoid if you want, but the comapany's history demonstrates they will do exactly that if they think they can get away with it.

Note, this senario doesn't even require that WMA destroys MP3 in the marketplace-- all that's required is for WMA to be considered a MAJOR audio format alongside MP3.

Anyone who believes WMA is free is kidding themselves. Why would Microsoft want to waste time developing a free format? The only reason is to extract software royalties and/or use it as a weapon to help maintain the dominance of Windows.

Lastly, the name tells you everything you need to know: "WINDOWS Media Format". i.e. inferior or unavailable on all non-Windows platforms. If that isn't the case yet, it will be later on. Anyone here remember how DCOM was touted by Microsoft as being cross platform and how Software AB would implement it on other platforms, including Linux? That proved to be nothing more than a lie in order to buy mindshare among IT managers for DCOM.

I think the best way to keep mp3, or other (vobis) open standards on top of the list is to just refuse to use such formats, if someone were to send me a WMA file of something, i'd refuse it. no matter what it was. "please encode it in mp3, or don't send it at all"

If someone were to send me their resume in word format, i'd flatly drop it to /dev/null, and ask for a copy in a readable format, like plain text.


12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

No, it's not free, we pay a licence fee for every WMA decoder shipped - just like we do for MP3.

As far as I can tell, nothing has changed; ISTR that win2k comes with a 56kbit MP3 encoder too.

Hugo

I read this when the article first came out on /. Just in case anyone doesn't read all the comments, here's how to fix this "feature":
AJV wrote:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Settings\MP3Encoding]
"LowRate"=dword:0001f400

Just change it. The above will change it 128k (from 56k). The UI shows this and reflects it.

I hate quoting from slashdot, and if anyone's offended, I'll delete the comment.
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

This isn't meant as a flame - just a counter point.

I think this is getting a little out of hand. Office is a great package and is very useful. Customers are not hurt by MS as much as other COMPANIES are. I think that companies such as DoubleClick and AOL (and then they had to go buy Netscape and Winamp) are much more harmful to the average person's privacy than MS is to any computer. I am not saying that MS is a saintly company - in fact, I have serious reservations about their tactics - however some of the products are very good.

MS should be kept in check and we should continue to place them under suspicion. But going so far as to refuse any file sent to you that is in an MS format is snobery. (Unless you are using Outlook in which case you should never accept any files, but I doubt you'd be using Outlook anyway! :)

12gig Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

I think you're missing the point in the office argument...

I would also refuse a word document because I don't own a copy of office...
How is not forking out several hundred pounds for an office suite I don't. need snobery?

I do all my DTP, word processing, finance, spreadsheet and poster/flyer work on software I bought in 1992 for a platform most of you will never have seen. I'm not going to throw it all away just to be able to read a few word documents...

I admit that I'm stuck with file format "lock in" (These files are not compatible with any other software) but knowing that, I use common formats when sending documents to others (unlike the usual office user who assumes that I use the same software they do...)

I'm sure people who use MS office every day find it meets their needs; however, as my needs are met with my 9 year old software, I'll give it a miss...

Don't assume everyone uses a PC or Mac... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

How is not forking out several hundred pounds for an office suite I don't. need snobery?

Agreed, especially when Word has a perfectly good "Save as RTF" function. I wish more people would use it!

___________
Tony Fabris

How is not forking out several hundred pounds for an office suite I don't need snobbery?

Because, like it or not, you do need the capability of reading what people send to you, unless you are such a snob that you don't care.

I didn't make the rules, but I do have to live by them, and it is an unfortunate fact that MS Word probably has an 80% market share. In the face of such overwhelming market dominance, it is not unreasonable to expect people to be able to read documents in that format.

I do have MS Word on my computer, but the only thing I use it for is to read documents sent to me in *.doc format. Unlike you, I don't use a modern word processor for my daily use -- my word processor isn't one of those newcomers from last decade, I mean 1992, that's less than 10 years old, probably still full of bugs and things. MY word processing software was copyright 1988, and since there are probably only about a dozen people in the whole world still using it, I always send my files in ascii or RTF. Tony knows what I use, and even mentioned it once on this bbs. Anybody remember?

Anyway, you can pick up a copy of MS Word as part of a Microsoft Works suite pretty cheaply (around $60 is the going price) on ebay because people are selling their OEM software that came with their new computer, unregistered and unopened. Ebay has a rule now that you can't sell OEM software unless you act as a manufacturer, and include either a hard drive or a motherboard with the software. This is funny -- you buy MS Works and get an old 80 MB hard drive or a '286 motherboard with it to meet the letter of the rules.

[soapbox] I know this is a contrarian opinion, but Bill Gates and Beelzebub are really not one and the same. Think back to what it was like running a computer 15 years ago. Do you really want to go back to C:> prompts and setting up separate print drivers for each piece of software you install? Microsoft is directly responsible for most of the changes made in the last couple of decades, and most of those changes have been for the better. [/soapbox]

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

You're not using an Amiga are you?

Calvin

Because, like it or not, you do need the capability of reading what people send to you, unless you are such a snob that you don't care.

Okay, I'm sorry for starting this Word debate. I agree with this statement, I really do, and I have Word installed for this very reason.

However, don't I have the right to be able to use my preffered word proccessing program to use those files? I mean, it's pretty bad when I can't even cut and paste simple text from a Word document into Wordperfect. If I need PSP screen captures and OCR software just to use a program I'm more capable and comfortable with, something is amiss.

Anyway, I thank the person who linked that web site. Despite not having any real formating options, I'm going to use that in the future.

ps-I don't think Gates is the devil either. I have no problems with Win98 for the level of user I am, and I prefer IE to Netscape just for small differences in program style. I do, however, have a problem with a piece of software affecting every level of user.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

How is not forking out several hundred pounds for an office suite I don't need snobbery?

Because, like it or not, you do need the capability of reading what people send to you, unless you are such a snob that you don't care.

It really depends on your work environment. My manager needs to deal with the PHB types all the time so he does need a Windows desktop and he has one. I don't. So when he forwards me a Powerpoint project requirements document, is it snobbish for me to send it back when it'll take me 10 minutes to find a machine to read it on as opposed to 30 seconds for him to convert it? I don't think so, and he appreciates that. Or when the HR department sends a Word document to [email protected] with subject "Important information", is it snobbish to remind them politely that 30% of the employees don't use Windows on their desktop?

And why do I single out Windows formats to moan about? I don't particularly like PDF or even HTML, but at least I can read them on the platform of my choice. If Microsoft would release a free (as in beer) viewer for most platforms, or allow other people to write one, a lot these problems would disappear. Otherwise, I'll just have to be a snob.

[soapbox] I know this is a contrarian opinion, but Bill Gates and Beelzebub are really not one and the same. Think back to what it was like running a computer 15 years ago. Do you really want to go back to C:> prompts and setting up separate print drivers for each piece of software you install? Microsoft is directly responsible for most of the changes made in the last couple of decades, and most of those changes have been for the better. [/soapbox]

Ouch, that hurt. It's one thing to say that Microsoft makes some great stuff (they do, especially hardware) but to claim that they are the source of all innovation... I had to count to 1024 before replying so that this doesn't turn into a flamewar. Let me just say that it's Microsoft who gave you the C:> prompt in the first place.

ObEmpeg: I got my blue carry case today. Looks great... and a lot cleaner than my current one! Anybody know if these things would get too upset if dropped into a washing machine?

Borislav

Nope, although I have a Commodore CDTV sitting under my vcr...
(Sidenote: If anyone has any software for these things, drop me a message)

My main home machine is an Acorn Risc PC, but I also have a Acorn A5000 which I use as a backup machine. I use it mainly for E-mail, but when I need to knock out a document it's the one with the software...

I do have a few PC's as well, one running Linux the other dual boot windows and Linux. That machine is only used for emplode, games and delphi.

If I really needed office compatibility, I could use staroffice, but the problem I have these days is my iMac owning friend sending the weirdest RTF files I've ever seen... (They are updates to put on a website, so I just hacked out the text with my favorate hex editor... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

It's not snobery, it's the simple fact that I don't own the software to open such a document. I love PDF, PS, text, I'll even take HTML.. but dealing with overly complex document formats like word doc is anoying. then again, i work in the .edu world right now, where the standard document format is Latex.. ;)

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

yep.. the acorn.. which reminds me.. i've got a acorn fanatic.. he said he was going to show me his system today.. (he's a visiting math guru) he's having trouble converting his fonts from the acorn.. all of the mathematics symbols are getting lost somewhere. :(

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

[soapbox] I know this is a contrarian opinion, but Bill Gates and Beelzebub are really not one and the same. Think back to what it was like running a computer 15 years ago. Do you really want to go back to C:> prompts and setting up separate print drivers for each piece of software you install? Microsoft is directly responsible for most of the changes made in the last couple of decades, and most of those changes have been for the better. [/soapbox]

Lets see here, 2001-15=1986. The Mac was around, with no need for what you speak of. Also, had Microsoft not done what they have, others would have. IBM with OS/2 for example. While Microsoft has helped the PC industry, by no means are they the only reason it's where it is today. Personally I feel they have actually harmed things by crushing competitiors instead of having to develop something new to compete. Take for example OS/2 Warp 4, released a bit after Windows 95. It has built in voice control and dictation. Built in standards like OpenDOC, Open32, OpenGL, and Java. Imagine if that OS hadn't ben slaughtered by MS where we would be today. Decent voice control, and standards that allow people to send work to others without worying about the format it's saved in. Had Microsoft not been able to crush OS/2 like they did, they would ahve been forced to compete and add similar features to Windows to stay alive.

(No, honestly, I'm not that bitter about the death of OS/2 when it was hitting it's prime)