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#294932 - 10/10/2007 11:38 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: avatarTX]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
is there a util like Ghost or something that can move it..


Well, there's 'dd'.

Or there's (cd /source && tar cf - . ) | ( cd /dest && tar xf - )
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#294933 - 10/10/2007 16:47 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: Roger]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
is there a util like Ghost or something that can move it..


Well, there's 'dd'.



Not to mention the simpler cat and cp commands.

Cheers

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#294934 - 10/10/2007 19:53 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
is there a util like Ghost or something that can move it..


Well, there's 'dd'.



Not to mention the simpler cat and cp commands.



Have you noticed that those of us with a DOS/Windows biased background can never quite believe that cat/cp can be so powerful and so always talk about dd for a task that from a DOS point of view seems complex
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#294935 - 11/10/2007 00:44 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: andy]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
On some OSes dd is required for this sort of thing due to needing to use a block device and the kernel not dealing very well with writes not matching block sizes. cp and cat (well, the shell's output redirection algorithm, technically) assume that they can write as much or as little as they want in each individual operation, but with dd you can specify that the block size be a specific size. Linux has none of these problems, though, nor do any other modern Unices I can think of.
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#294936 - 11/10/2007 06:29 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: wfaulk]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
My first encounter with Unix was back in 1991/1992 when I was using Sun workstations to write Linux root/boot floppies. Maybe the Sun Unix at the time required the use of dd and that it why I became fixated on it ?
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#294937 - 11/10/2007 13:31 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: andy]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I wouldn't be surprised.

Incidentally, that's not too far off from my experiences, except it was DECstations for me.
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#294938 - 21/10/2007 17:43 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa


These adapters looked pretty basic, so I went with one from Hong Kong on eBay (see here) for less than £3 delivered. Although it is not as neat as having one the right size for mounting on the drive tray, I'm happy with it. Mine is stuck on to the drive tray with some sticky back velcro (hook and loop) and a cable tie. Its definitely not going anywhere

dmesg on my Empeg shows:
(...)
hda: TOSHIBA MK4025GAS, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-256, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hda: TOSHIBA MK4025GAS, 38154MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=4864/255/63
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-256, 245MB w/1kB Cache, CHS=980/16/32
(...)
Partition check:
hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 > hda2 hda3 hda4
hdb: hdb1
(...)
attempt to access beyond end of device
03:44: rw=0, want=2, limit=0
dev 03:44 blksize=1024 blocknr=1 sector=2 size=1024 count=1

I think the last part (beyond end of device) is related, I'm not too sure.

Mark, I'm not sure whether you've had time to have another look at the Hijack code for your idea (here), but I'm ready to try it out whenever you are.


Attachments
304795-hybrid.jpg (550 downloads)

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#294939 - 21/10/2007 17:45 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa


Attachments
304796-hijack.jpg (447 downloads)

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Hussein

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#294940 - 21/10/2007 17:52 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
I've attached the output of hdparm from /proc/ide/hda/identify on my player. I don't see a 'Power-Up In Standby feature set' clause in there. Guess I should have checked this earlier, eh? Mark, will this setup work or do I need a new drive?


Attachments
304797-hdparm.txt (472 downloads)

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#294941 - 21/10/2007 19:38 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I've attached the output of hdparm from /proc/ide/hda/identify on my player. I don't see a 'Power-Up In Standby feature set' clause in there. Guess I should have checked this earlier, eh? Mark, will this setup work or do I need a new drive?


That particular hard drive will not work for this.

But I'm really not into that feature now, as the 16GB cards are cheap enough to put pairs of them into my players (two more cards are now in the mail off of eBay last week, for about $125/each incl/shipping.

I still have the (almost fully functional) code, though.

Cheers

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#294942 - 21/10/2007 19:57 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
Mine is stuck on to the drive tray with some sticky back velcro (hook and loop) and a cable tie. Its definitely not going anywhere



Is the drilling of additional holes in the drive plate forbidden by the Empeg Modders Creedo. Cause if it is I've been a baaaad boy.
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#294943 - 22/10/2007 07:26 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Quote:
That particular hard drive will not work for this.

But I'm really not into that feature now, as the 16GB cards are cheap enough to put pairs of them into my players (two more cards are now in the mail off of eBay last week, for about $125/each incl/shipping.

C'est la vie.

Good thing I went with the el cheapo option I suppose. I'll probably attempt to run the builder on the CF card and install the player image onto it (it should fit into 256MB, right?) and use that as the master. I'll have my 40GB disk as the slave with all my music on it. In theory the only advantage of this would be to make reading and writing to the database much faster. Might as well have a little play around with it since I have all the bits now.
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#294944 - 30/10/2007 15:12 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Thought I'd just give a little update. I ran the builder on my little CF card which worked fine but my hard disk doesn't want to be a slave to it. So, I'm back to the CF being a slave. Not a problem, I just symlinked /drive0/var to /drive1/var and noticed some nice benefits. The player is much more responsive when using weblite and playing all tracks in a big shuffled playlist is faster too, though to be fair it was hardly slow before. Rebuilding the database after adding tracks seems about the same as it was before since its still reading from the disk.

I was curious and ran the builder on a Sandisk 'Extreme III' 2GB card I borrowed to see whether it was any better in the Empeg than my standard old 256MB card. The disk stress test results show the data transfer rate to be roughly the same and the seek times to be just 0.2ms faster. So looks to be the IDE bus of the Empeg that is the limit rather than the speed of the card.

So, is it actually worth making a HD+CF Hybrid? Definitely not unless you use weblite a lot. But it kept me amused for a little while on a damp weekend
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#304999 - 11/12/2007 04:57 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: sein]
iank
new poster

Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 33
I stuffed a single 8GB card (safely setting aside my working 60GB disk) and while it boots and works it just will NOT connect to emplode. Serial? Fine. TCP? No worky. Very odd. It's been a long time since I've played with the EMPEG so I'm probably missing something obvious.

Anyway, fun fiddling awaits.

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#305012 - 11/12/2007 12:07 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: iank]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: iank
I stuffed a single 8GB card (safely setting aside my working 60GB disk) and while it boots and works it just will NOT connect to emplode. Serial? Fine. TCP? No worky. Very odd. It's been a long time since I've played with the EMPEG so I'm probably missing something obvious.

Anyway, fun fiddling awaits.



Look up the IP address that the empeg is using, on the "About" screen from the main empeg menu.

Then tell Emplode to connect to that "specific address".

Also, if Hijack is installed, then the player has to be in "AC/Home" mode for this to work.

Cheers

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#305111 - 13/12/2007 02:12 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
iank
new poster

Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 33
Arg. It's not getting an IP. If I pop in the 60GB disk, no problem.

I installed this in the usual manner: flashed the builder image, let it run. Flashed the release dev image and booted.

I can put music on it using the serial port, not a problem. It plays and everything is super peachy. Just slow to load music and I cannot get the web UI setup.

Anway, not a huge issue. Mainly doing this for chuckles.

Oh, and the adpater is ye olde cfdisk.2g from pc engines. Tried with and wihtout the jumper (just soldered the gap). I'm not sure which way to go with a single disk setup, since I've seen some devices you jumper and some you do not. Either way it boots and works, just no TCP action.

I got it to get an IP once and emplode saw it but crashed opening the database. A reboot and the IP was lost, never to be seen again.

I'm wondering if the flash card or adapter might be fuxored. I've upgraded disks of the spinning variety and never had this issue, and have used thses sorts of adapters in other projects so I'm kinda suspecting hardware problems at this point.


Edited by iank (13/12/2007 02:52)

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#306665 - 29/01/2008 21:03 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: robricc]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Isn't progress wonderful!


Edited by mlord (29/01/2008 21:04)

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#306666 - 29/01/2008 22:12 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: mlord]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
When we have affordable 64GB cards then my empegs are going solid state.
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#306667 - 29/01/2008 22:22 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: andy]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: andy
When we have affordable 64GB cards then my empegs are going solid state.


I already have two empegs with dual-16GB cards. When the 32GB cards get close to $100 or so, I'll replace one card in each empeg with 32GB, and populate two more empegs as well.

16+32 = 48GB, which is great for our needs here!

Cheers

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#306676 - 30/01/2008 08:23 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: mlord]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I need about 50GB and I'd rather not have two drives, hence the desire to wait for the 64s.
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#308380 - 19/03/2008 01:13 Adapter Mania [Re: andy]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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#308381 - 19/03/2008 01:26 32GB CF cards.. $134 [Re: gbeer]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
32GB CF cards are now US$134 on eBay.

Not quite cheap enough, but getting there..

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#308384 - 19/03/2008 04:47 Re: Adapter Mania [Re: gbeer]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Why would you want to get an SDHC to CF adapter and use SDHC for this purpose? CF costs less and has greater capacity.
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#308386 - 19/03/2008 07:47 Re: Adapter Mania [Re: wfaulk]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Why would you want to get an SDHC to CF adapter and use SDHC for this purpose? CF costs less and has greater capacity.

Not in Australia when I just so happened to be looking today. Not by much though and after you buy the adapter you'd be square at best most likely.

http://www.pricespy.com.au/cat_17.html
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#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#308389 - 19/03/2008 12:37 Re: Adapter Mania [Re: Shonky]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Hm. Odd. You'd think that relative pricings would more-or-less be the same.
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#308408 - 20/03/2008 00:02 Re: Adapter Mania [Re: wfaulk]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Why would you want to get an SDHC to CF adapter and use SDHC for this purpose? CF costs less and has greater capacity.


Hence the title of the post being "Adapter Mania".
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#314415 - 25/09/2008 00:07 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: andy]
eagle
new poster

Registered: 08/05/2002
Posts: 14
Loc: London, UK
I just ordered one of these:
http://www.memoryc.com/transcend/ts64gssd25-m.html

to replace my single 40GB harddisk, I better hope it works!

Will let you know how it goes...
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MK1 Empeg - 64GB Transcend SSD (TS64GSSD25-M),
Kenwood KDC-MP6090R (Radio+MP3-CD+Aux In),
Frontier Labs NEX II - 4GB Flash (SanDisk Ultra II),
Frontier Labs NEX IIe - 1GB IBM Microdrive,
Frontier Labs NEX 3 - 1GB SD (SanDisk Ultra II+usb),
Frontier Labs NEX Ia+ - 4GB Flash (owned by wife),
Frontier Labs NEXBlack - will get a 32GB CF card soon \:\)

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#314995 - 14/10/2008 17:46 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: eagle]
crazyplums
member

Registered: 29/12/2006
Posts: 157
Loc: E.Sussex, UK
sooo, did the 64gig ssd do the trick?

i think i've got the general idea now, soo, to summarise..

i need one ide to cf or ssd adaptor, one large card (i have a mk2a) or two, and to possibly remove a resistor (r1) and jump it?
that in itself seems fine and i'm able to do that, but, are any system changes required (operating system / driver i mean), cos that i ain't good at!

Hugh
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#314999 - 14/10/2008 18:10 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: crazyplums]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
First, there are two laptop hard drive attachment standards, PATA and SATA. PATA is being displaced by SATA, but the empeg requires PATA.

If you bought a PATA SSD, you'd be good to go. It works just like a magnetic spindle hard drive.

If you bought a SATA SSD, you'd need a SATA to PATA adapter, which I don't think are (yet) small enough to fit inside an empeg case. Basically, don't do that.

If you want to go with CF cards, you just need a CF to PATA adapter, which are cheap. I got the ones mlord recommended and they work great. The resistor removal is specific to that particular adapter. Another one might have different issues, but it should all be fairly straightforward.


Edited by wfaulk (14/10/2008 18:11)
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#315000 - 14/10/2008 18:33 Re: 32GB CF Cards now under $180 (GBP90) and falling.. [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
So there are no tweaks or changes to the operating system needed in order for CF/SSD drives to work in the empeg?

You just plug them in, run the builder and the upgrader, and it Just Works?
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