#295670 - 21/03/2007 16:50
Tips for buying a digital SLR?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Hello, I need to buy a digital SLR for work but don't know much about them. It will be used for indoor photography, press-style (person at a podium, people in a group, etc). It must resolve the complaint that the current digital point-and-shoot "was too shaky/blurry" indoors. I interpret that as, the new camera needs better automatic settings to adjust to the light, focus, depth of field, etc.
Can any of you smart camera users recommend buying points for an easy-to-use DSLR with good manual features which can be handled well automatically? Are there specific lenses/flashes for indoor press-style photos? I'll even ask if you can recommend a specific camera and lenses for such a task.
I've been intimidated by these big cameras, but now I'll get the chance to learn more about them. Thanks for your help.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295671 - 21/03/2007 17:02
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Pentax or Nikon. Especially the Pentax.
(I have all Canon, and cannot recommend them for a basic P&S setup. Great for an extended zillions of lenses system, though).
-ml
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#295672 - 21/03/2007 17:11
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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member
Registered: 22/07/2005
Posts: 109
Loc: Birmingham, AL
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I am by no means camera guru, but we have enjoyed our Cannon SLR very much. It's the older style that is only 6 mega pixels but it's still going strong and we like it. I have not researched cameras in a while but when I did several years ago here were some of the points to keep in mind:
1) Does it come with the AC power cord (not the AC charger). Cannon's do not, unless they have changed over the years. It's nice to have it when you are downloading 300+pictures.
2) Make sure your memory card is one of the fast write speeds, this is useful for continuous shot modes.
3) Is the battery a rechargeable battery, I would imagine that all of the SLR's are but I know that some of the cheap point and shoot ones are not.
4) Research the price of just the body if you have a specific lens in mind. No point getting the lens that comes with it if you’re never going to use it.
To me I normally think of the SLR's for folks that need a longer/wider zoom and for folks that are looking for lots of settings rather then "automatic".
Out of curiosity why an SLR?
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#295673 - 21/03/2007 17:24
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: brax]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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The one thing that'd really help eliminate shake/blur would be a tripod (with any camera)
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#295674 - 21/03/2007 17:29
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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Maybe Ken Rockwell can help? Quote:
Sneak Peak Summary:
Get the Nikon D200 if you don't mind the weight.
Get a Nikon D40 for everything else.
Get the Canon 5D if you work on a tripod.
Forget the rest.
Comparison: Nikon D200, D80, D70, D50, D40, Canon 5D and XTi
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/d200-d80-d70-d50-d40-5d-xti.htm
_________________________
Empeg Mk1 #00177, 2.00 final, hijack 4.76
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#295675 - 21/03/2007 17:30
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Regardless of brand/style of camera, one of the most important aspects for inside shooting is a low f-stop. F-Stops are the inverse ration between the amount of light that enters the lens and the amount of light that reaches the film/sensor. So, if a lens only let at most 1/5 the amount of light entering the lens through to the sensor, it would have an minumum f-stop of 5 (all lenses can be 'choked' down to allow less light to reach the sensor by reducing its aperture).
A fast lens (low f number) will allow two things:
1) Shoot without a flash in darker rooms and still have acceptable results (less blur)
2) Allow a flash to have a greater 'reach' (a longer distance at which the flash effectively lights the subject).
Before spending 100's of dollars, I would recommend getting a basic photography book so you can learn the three basics - f-stop, exposure time, and ISO speeds.
The more you know the less chance you'll buy the wrong kit.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#295676 - 21/03/2007 17:34
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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What you need is a DSLR and a external flash. The ultimate in low light work would be a 5D, a 580EX flash, and the 24-70mm f2.8 lens. (At least in the canon world. I don't keep up with Nikon). Of course, that will run you about 4k, and many people would (correctly) tell you that you need an "assortment of fast primes" to really have the best low light setup, but that would inflate the budget even more. So, assuming 4k is more than you want to spend, you need to see where you can cut corners. The 5D is a better low light performer than the rebel XTi, but it's unlikely the difference is worth it to you. If you go with the XTi, we can "sidegrade" the lens to the 17-55mm f2.8 IS lens, which is an amazing lens, still costing about 1k. The 580EX is better than the 430EX, but not by much. Are you trying to fill an auditorium with light, or a board room? A board room or smaller, you won't notice the difference, so get the 430EX.
So, now are costs are approximately 700 for the camera, 300 for the flash, 1000 for the lens. If 2k is too expensive, start paring down that lens. The 3rd party manufacturers (sigma, tonkina, tamrom) make nice 18-50ish f2.8 zooms. Buy one of those for $400, and your cost is around 1400. No image stabilization, but a solid performing lens indoors. $1373 total at BH, spend $40 on a pair of 2GB CF cards, and you'll be all set.
That's where I'd end up if I were in your position. Nikon people can do a similar exercise, I tend think of Nikon as being a bit more expensive and a bit behind on the development curve, but Nikon people will cast similar aspersions at Canon. Canon also has a huge percent of the market, so the used market is especially vibrant, to the point where I never lose money buying and selling used lenses.
Matthew
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#295677 - 21/03/2007 17:42
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I am on my second Canon SLR, I've had a 300D and now a 350D. I am saving for something further up in the range in the next 18 months. One thing I like about the Canon is the range of bits you can get and the ability to take them with you when you upgrade. If this won't be an issue for you Mark is right, look for a more cost effective startup. It sounds like you will be doing lots of pictures of people, something I tend to do quite a bit of. What you need is a good flash gun to match the SLR you have bought, combined with a good diffuser the results are really good. I have a Canon 580EX flashgun, but a friend of mine has a Sigma that is perfect if you are on a budget. They make all the difference. There are lots of flash diffustion solutions out there, Gary Fong's Lightsphere is quite interesting, but there are many more to choose from, all do a similar thing and they are a must for the type of pictures you will be taking. I have a cheap set of knock off Omni Bounce diffusers from eBay that work quite well. If you go the Canon route, I can recommend their 50mm F1.8 starter lense, at about £50 ($100 ?) it's a very good choice when taking pictures of people and you don't need a zoom. I can't speak for any other makes, but I couldn't decide between Canon and Nikon when I started with SLR's. It was the feel of the Canon that sold it, to me it felt better in my hand. It is very important to try the camera in real life first, don't just buy it off the net. Cheers Cris.
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#295678 - 21/03/2007 17:54
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: Cris]
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member
Registered: 22/07/2005
Posts: 109
Loc: Birmingham, AL
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Quote:
It is very important to try the camera in real life first, don't just buy it off the net.
This is probably the best advice. When we bought our Cannon the newer version (8 mega pixels) had just come out and was about $250-300 more. I almost bought the newer model from the net until my wife and I decided to stop in at a local camera store. Well since she is the photographer of the family, I had her try out each and she liked the older style more. It was a little bigger and she said it was more comfortable to hold. For what we use it for 6 mega pixels is enough.
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#295679 - 21/03/2007 18:16
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Thanks for all of the info. If there's any more, please feel free to share/debate it. My coworker who is researching this recommends a Pentax, but it will help to look into the Cannon and Nikon recommendations here.
Why SLR? Probably because the requestor thinks "bigger and more expensive will reduce the shake and give better pictures." I'm thinking SLR will have better and faster automatic adjustment of the many settings required for good indoor photography. And, hopefully allow the addition of lenses which might make indoor shots even better. Sure a tripod could work, but I think we're trying to avoid that.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295680 - 21/03/2007 18:30
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
"bigger and more expensive will reduce the shake and give better pictures."
More light and a faster shutter speed will reduce shake and increase sharpness. An SLR will give you more options to get the result you are looking for.
How far are you away from you subject? Are you at the back of the room ???
Cheers
Cris.
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#295681 - 21/03/2007 18:30
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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And generally most sensors used in SLRs have better noise performance than the tiny little ones used in P&S models.
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#295682 - 21/03/2007 23:32
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
Why SLR? Probably because the requestor thinks "bigger and more expensive will reduce the shake and give better pictures." I'm thinking SLR will have better and faster automatic adjustment of the many settings required for good indoor photography. And, hopefully allow the addition of lenses which might make indoor shots even better. Sure a tripod could work, but I think we're trying to avoid that.
I think some of the folks offering the above suggestions may be missing the point here. You do not need a DSLR camera for what you are doing. That is total overkill, and in fact may be less desirable than a simple 6--8 megapixel point and shoot camera with a 3x zoom lens and with image stabilization. Image stabilization will allow you to get non-blurred photos in much less light than a camera without.
There are a great many cameras in the $250--$400 price range that meet these criteria. Look for something with a maximum aperture of f2.8 (that is probably the most common). Or follow some of the suggestions above and look for a camera with a hot-shoe that will support an external flash -- although for the kinds of pictures you describe (small groups, indoors) the camera's built-in flash will probably prove adequate.
Don't fall into the "megapixel trap", either. A 10 megapixel camera will not necessarily produce better pictures than a 6 megapixel camera, even though that is the key specification that manufacturers promote and buyers look for. In the case of a large zoom ratio camera (8x or greater) the physical constraints of the lens design dictates a physically quite small CCD sensor. The more pixels you stick onto that sensor, the closer together the pixels have to be placed on the sensor. Closer together = more noise. As counter-intuitive as it seems, the camera I am getting ready to buy for myself (Panasonic DMC FZ50) would actually produce higher quality pictures (at ISO settings >200) if the CCD sensor were 6 megapixels instead ot the actual 10 set by the manufacturer.
DSLRs are nice -- if you don't mind spending two, three, even five times the money for similar performance, and don't mind lugging around a bunch of lenses for different shooting situations. Yes, a DSLR has a physically larger CCD chip and for the same number of megapixels under the same lighting conditions will give less noise in the picture. But unless you are shooting pictures at high ISO settings (ISO >400) to be printed in large sizes on glossy paper...you'll never see the difference.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#295683 - 22/03/2007 00:55
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Thanks again for all of your feedback. Tomorrow at work, I will check on P&S and the Canon and Nikon recommendations specifically regarding the F Stop and other settings mentioned above. Yes, the requester of the purchase is in the megapixel trap. I am in the "DSLR's must have features to fix all problems" trap. Namely, there must be a good lens specifically for indoor press pictures. If Canon has the most lens options, maybe I should try them. I'm not sure I trust image stabilization. Isn't it just like ground loop fixers for car stereo - a hack at the problem, but not a real solution? Optical image stabilization from Canon seems like much less of a hack than digital image stabilization (which I can't find a description of) in the Pentax. Still, a hack, which a proper lens and proper knowledge of its use would overcome. Right? Oh, and I don't know how far from the subject the camera will be. I'm guessing from 3 feet to 50 feet (many rows back in a small lecture room). I'm guessing lighting will be flourescent, maybe flood, rarely natural. I'll review this and request problematic examples from the requestor.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295684 - 22/03/2007 03:45
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
I'm not sure I trust image stabilization. Isn't it just like ground loop fixers for car stereo - a hack at the problem, but not a real solution? Optical image stabilization from Canon seems like much less of a hack than digital image stabilization (which I can't find a description of) in the Pentax. Still, a hack, which a proper lens and proper knowledge of its use would overcome. Right?
Uhhhh... no.
Proper lens and knowledge of its use have nothing to do with camera motion at the moment of exposure.
Image Stabilization uses motion sensors built into the camera to compensate for any movement or shake of the camera as the picture is being taken. It actually moves the lens elements very slightly to keep the image focused in the same spot on the CCD sensor. It will allow you to hand-hold a camera with shutter speeds four (or more) times slower then you could without IS, and still get acceptable pictures. For example, 1/60 of a second is normally considered the slowest "hand-holdable" shutter speed for most people. With a good IS system, you can get the same results at 1/15 second, and with steady hands, even pictures taken at 1/8 second will be usable. Optical IS does seem to get better results than software IS, but any IS helps a great deal.
Quote:
Namely, there must be a good lens specifically for indoor press pictures.
There is no such thing. There are good lenses and there are poor lenses, but they aren't categorized by what kind of pictures you use them for. What makes a lens "good" is its sharpness, its light-gathering capability, and its freedom from distortion. All lenses are compromises. For instance, a DSLR lens can have better sharpness, better light gathering, and less distortion, but this will come at the expense of versatility and price. I don't think you will find much better than a 3:1 zoom ratio on a DSLR lens. This would make transitioning from a shooting range of "...3 feet to 50 feet (many rows back in a small lecture room)" problematical without having more than one lens. By contrast, the Panasonic camera I mentioned has a 12:1 optical zoom. If I set the camera into 3 megapixel mode, the zoom ratio extends to more than 20:1. That means I can have the same image size at 200 feet away as I would have if the subject were just 10 feet away. You'd need a wheelbarrow to carry around all the lenses a DSLR would need to have that same versatility.
I highly recommend that you go to dpreview.com, pick virtually any camera at random and read their full in-depth review, not to learn about that camera, but to gain a great deal of knowledge about digital photography in general. I used to be a professional photographer (no big deal -- it was just supplemental income, shooting car races and the occasional wedding, but I did it for money and had a business license so I guess that made me a professional) in the days before digital cameras, and just about everything I know about digital I learned by studying the reviews at dpreview.com.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#295685 - 22/03/2007 13:19
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I just wrote a long post that got eaten by the page being timed out. Grumble. Here's a shorter summary.
Image stabilization is a nice feature, but for you, have a look at a tripod. They're cheap, they work with most any camera (save the smallest point-and-shoot models), and they stabilize the camera perfectly. What they don't do is stabilize the subject (damn people moving all on their own!).
For that, you've got three options:
- a faster lens (I'm quite happy with my 50mm f/1.8 prime, which I got for $100)
- a flash or flash system of some kind (at the extreme, you can permanently install radio-controlled strobes in the room)
- higher ISO (helps any camera see in the dark; costs you something in image quality; the Canon 5D is the present king of high-ISO performance, but most any new D-SLR will do very well)
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#295686 - 22/03/2007 15:16
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: DWallach]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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http://www.dpreview.com for all your DSLR review needs
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#295687 - 22/03/2007 23:31
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Thanks again guys. I had my coworker read dpreview and he selected the Pentax. I'll give it a second look now that I've got the information here. A "faster lens", that's what I'm curious about.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295688 - 23/03/2007 04:41
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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"Faster" is a short-hand way of saying that the lens has a wider aperture, typically expressed with a lower f-stop number. To give some concrete numbers, my Nikon 18-70mm zoom's max aperture ranges from f/3.5 to f/4.5, while my Nikon 50mm prime's max aperture is f/1.8. The prime lens is two to three "stops" brighter than the zoom at max aperture. Stops are factors of two. If you make the lens twice as bright, then you can expose for half the time, thus better freezing motion. Two stops is the difference between 1/8 second and 1/30 second. No matter what kind of image stabilization you have with a 1/8 second exposure, your subject can still move, yielding a blurry picture. With a 1/30 second exposure, you've got a better chance of freezing your subject. If you then pushed your ISO another two stops, you're up to 1/125 second exposure, which will do a pretty good job of freezing motion and without giving up much, if any, image quality.
If you've, in fact, decided to go with Pentax, then the lenses I'd look at buying (with rounded prices given from B&H's web site):
Pentax 50mm f/1.4: $195 (after rebate)
Sigma 30mm f/1.4: $429
This contrasts with their high-end zoom:
Pentax 16-50mm f/2.8: $900 (or $409 for the Sigma lens with similar specs)
You get two stops of extra brightness, relative to the "expensive" standard zoom, or three stops relative to the cheaper, typically bundled with the camera, standard zoom. The only downside of using prime lenses is that you zoom with your feet, although you also have to deal with the lower depth of field. "Fast" lenses like this get the subject is reasonably good focus, but anything just in front or just in behind will be out of focus. To some photographers, this sort of things is a very desirable feature. To others, it's really annoying, because if the autofocus misses the target, you get garbage. Also, if you need anything wider-angle than 30mm, you don't have many choices.
Before shelling out the bucks on all these lenses, you can take the cheap zoom that comes with the camera, and set it at 30mm or 50mm, and see how that perspective works from wherever you're taking your pictures. If you like that field of view, then you may choose to shell out for the prime lens.
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#295689 - 23/03/2007 12:58
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Stops are factors of two.
And the very confusing "full" F-stop numbers (1.0, 1.4, 2.0, 2.8, 4.0, 5.6, 8.0, ...) are approximate square roots of those various powers of two.
EDIT: Each successive number in that sequence (above) represents a halving of the amount of light getting to the film/sensor. So f2.0 means *double* the brightness of f2.8..
Knowing that helped me a lot when I was first learning about this stuff 30 years ago.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (23/03/2007 14:10)
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#295690 - 23/03/2007 13:49
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
The only downside of using prime lenses is that you zoom with your feet
Although it seems to me that if your intended end-product doesn't need to be super-high resolution, screw it. Shoot it in the middle of the frame and crop.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#295691 - 24/03/2007 00:46
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Dan, everything you say is true. But... Quote:
Image stabilization is a nice feature, but for you, have a look at a tripod. They're cheap, they work with most any camera (save the smallest point-and-shoot models), and they stabilize the camera perfectly. What they don't do is stabilize the subject (damn people moving all on their own!).
I guess that for his shooting situation, a tripod is viable, although he did say they were trying to avoid that. That idea hadn't entered my head becaue it doesn't match my shooting style. It's enough work just to carry the camera around, never mind a tripod and a bag full of lenses. You're right, though, under his circusmstances, a tripod is a poor-mans IS system!
Quote:
If you've, in fact, decided to go with Pentax, then the lenses I'd look at buying (with rounded prices given from B&H's web site):
Pentax 50mm f/1.4: $195 (after rebate)
Sigma 30mm f/1.4: $429
Ummm... you need to add another lens or two to the list, I think. Remember, he said he'd be shooting at quite a range of distances (Quote:
Oh, and I don't know how far from the subject the camera will be. I'm guessing from 3 feet to 50 feet (many rows back in a small lecture room)
) and a 50mm lens isn't going to do it. At 50 feet he'll need at least 200mm, maybe more. Now we're talking the big bucks!
Sidebar: With a DSLR, do the lens focal lengths refer to the actual focal length of the lens, or is it like the P&S cameras, where the numbers refer to 35mm equivalents?
I know what I would do in his situation, but I'm not he, and don't claim that my way would be best for him. I'd use a P&S camera with at least 5 megapixels, a 6:1 zoom, and a hot shoe for external flash. A nice, neat, all-in-one package that is inexpensive, versatile, easy to carry, simple to use, and it will give perfectly acceptable pictures. Of course it doesn't have the cachet, the "wow factor" of a 10 megapixel DSLR with a bag full of interchangeable lenses, but for a quarter the price (or less) it would do what he needs.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#295692 - 24/03/2007 01:00
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Sidebar: With a DSLR, do the lens focal lengths refer to the actual focal length of the lens, or is it like the P&S cameras, where the numbers refer to 35mm equivalents?
They are the real actual focal lengths.
But the field of view (FOV) is smaller for the same focal length. Nikon DSLRs give a 50mm lens the field of view of a 75mm lens -- a straight 1.5x multiplier for any lens used.
Canon has three different DSLR ranges and FOVs: 1.6x, 1.3x, and 1.0x.
Confused yet? 
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#295693 - 25/03/2007 17:27
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
"Fast" lenses like this get the subject is reasonably good focus, but anything just in front or just in behind will be out of focus.
I'm pretty sure this is what the requestor is after. They may also want some focus throughout the surrounding field, so I'll check into that too.
Thanks for all of the good information. I will process this later, on work time, since it's a work purchase.
And I agree with Doug: I'd love to get them a P&S with good IS and good flash, but I may be up against the mentality that bigger is better.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295694 - 25/03/2007 18:04
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure this is what the requestor is after. They may also want some focus throughout the surrounding field, so I'll check into that too.
If you want a large depth of field (all things in focus) you can select aperture priority mode and select a high f-stop. The smaller the focal length , the less this will be necessary however. Depth of field decreases with focal length for a given lens opening.
I'm not sure if the Pentax camera you select has depth of field preview, but many SLRs do. This lets you preview what the actual depth of field will be for whatever aperture setting you have selected for the shot. For normal viewing, the lens is always left wide open for the brightest image which isn't necessarily what you or your camera has selected.
Stu
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If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#295695 - 25/03/2007 18:21
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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stranger
Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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I've been shooting digital since 1996. I have owned a variety of cameras that would take a paragraph to list and many thousands of dollars. I like the Canon line - the 10D, 20D or 30D are very nice and would be fine for what you're looking for. Don't be afraid to buy used - you'll save a ton of money buying last year's model. Many of my friends like the Nikon D70 and D100. The 10D, 20D and 30D have really low noise at higher ISO, which is why I'd recommend any of these.
I also have 3 point and shoot cameras in the house. For weddings or events, the point and shoots stay home unless I want to capture video clips.
One thing you'll gain on a DSLR is practically zero shutter lag. If you need to capture an expression, it's dumb luck if you can capture it with most point and shoot cameras.
If budget is an issue, get one of the cheaper Rebel DSLRs or Nikon D50\D70 and put your money into a good lens and external flash. If you get a body\lens package - the focal length is usually good, but the lens won't be fast enough as described in earlier posts.
Good lenses for Canon:
17-35 f/2.8, 16-35 f/2.8, 24-70 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8. If you are free to move around, the 17-35 f/2.8 is a fine "press" lens. The 24-70 f/2.8 is nice, but it is heavy. The 70-200mm f/2.8 is also a nice lens if you want to get farther away from your subjects. The 50mm is so cheap, you should get that lens regardless.
From what I've found, image stabilized lenses do not work for this kind of work unless your subjects hold still. Everything around the podium will be sharp, and any movement from the subject will cause blur. If you're thinking Canon's 28-135mm IS lens will do the trick - forget it - it's a crappy lens for this kind of work. Don't forget, opening up the lens kills your depth of field, a higher ISO and flash help.
Best of luck.
Mark
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#295696 - 25/03/2007 18:35
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tahir]
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new poster
Registered: 04/02/2007
Posts: 21
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I invented tripods to keep certain, eh, market segments happy. Consider a monopod. Less baggage
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#295697 - 26/03/2007 01:44
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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stranger
Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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One thing I forgot to mention. When switching from point and shoot to SLR, don't be surprised if your pictures take a turn for the worse until you get the hang of it. At least practicing is cheap.
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#295698 - 26/03/2007 02:47
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: MarkM]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
don't be surprised if your pictures take a turn for the worse
..which will happen, by the way, because the SLR has much less depth of field than the P&S camera, even at the "same" F-stops. This is due to the relationship between focal length and the physical sensor size.
The DSLR will be much more fussy about correct focus.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (26/03/2007 02:48)
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#295700 - 26/03/2007 04:16
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: MarkM]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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Quote:
Shallow depth of field examples...just for fun.
Me too:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~schido/fotos/Kamp%20Vught/slides/DSC_0947%20sRGB.html
Edit: with the excellent cheap (±$99) nikon 50/1.8 lens
Edited by Schido (26/03/2007 08:11)
_________________________
Empeg Mk1 #00177, 2.00 final, hijack 4.76
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#295701 - 26/03/2007 21:55
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: Schido]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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#295702 - 27/03/2007 02:07
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: MarkM]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
pictures take a turn for the worse
Not possible, hahaha. Read on:
I saw some problem pictures taken with our existing P&S camera which caused the request for a DSLR. Outdoor shots were decent, but oddly fuzzy up close while perfectly sharp in the distance. Inside groups shots were "double exposed" and close ups were, well, trippy; a sharp image blured together with massive motion blur.
When checked the EXIF data in the (Canon S45) camera's software, I nearly cried when I saw:
Outdoor shots were taken in "landscape" mode, with its infinite focus and nonstandard aperature.
Indoor shots were taken in "night" mode, with its overpowered flash and 1/8 sec shutter speed.
Nobody ever asked me why their pictures looked bad, they just wanted a new camera. I bet the old S45 will take 90% decent pictures just by setting it on Auto and properly using auto focus.
To that end, I'm not getting the Pentax but, at my co-workers researched recommendation, a Panasonic Lumix. It's kind of P&S (in price, too), but it's got image stabilization and 12x zoom (both requested features), and a decent range of settings and a seemingly good UI. And it looks kind of like an SLR, which will make 'em happy.
I don't trust Panasonic, but the Lumix seems like a good P&S to solve a non-existant problem and get some bonus features. I'd get the Canon or Olympus "super zoom" cameras in a heartbeat if the didn't use 4x AA batteries. Why!!
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295703 - 27/03/2007 02:47
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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stranger
Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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That is too funny - I'm laughing with you not at you. I have a 1D Mark II and I can't tell you how many times I've flubbed up the settings. It's usually stuff I've set on a previous shoot, like leaving the camera at ISO 1600 in bright daylight conditions or had set a custom white balance that I forgot to change back to auto.
My wife has a Canon SD500 tiny little digital and the settings are really easy to change by mistake. Especially the flash settings - auto, no flash, red-eye, etc. I try to review my wife's pictures and settings frequently.
Looks like the Panasonic has what you're looking for with some nice features.
When you're traveling, standard batteries are handy.
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#295704 - 27/03/2007 07:49
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: MarkM]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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I've taken a few shots with incorrect settings - mainly a higher ISO. I now use the "info" button (on the 300D) to review the settings each time before taking a new batch of photos.
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#295705 - 27/03/2007 19:49
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
To that end, I'm not getting the Pentax but, at my co-workers researched recommendation, a Panasonic Lumix.
Now you are at exactly the same place I was at two weeks ago -- shopping for a Panasonic Lumix FZ50.
Be very careful where you shop for your camera. The camera sales industry is full of unethical sleazebags who do not have your best interests at heart.
You can see a few of my adventures here and here
Trust me when I tell you that the best price isn't necessarily the best deal!
From the research I have done (considerable!) on the FZ50, you will like it very much. The only downside I see with it is that with the small (physical size) CCD sensor, and the overly-large amount of megapixels (10.1) crammed onto it, noise may be a problem at ISO settings greater than 400. Some claim anything over 200 is noisy, but I don't see that in any reasonably sized sample pictures. (By noise, I am not referring to audible sound, but rather artifacts and colors washing into each other in the picture) Panasonic addresses this with their Venus III noise reduction algorithm, but the end result is noise reduction at the expense of image sharpness. I think, given the choice, I'd take the noise.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#295706 - 27/03/2007 23:00
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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stranger
Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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I agree - purchase carefully. You might get a camera..."Oh, you wanted a charger with that? You wanted a battery? A power adaper? All of those are priced as accessories - didn't you know that? You want to return it, that's an $80 restocking fee, didn't you read the fine print?" There are some slimy businesses selling cameras. I swear that some must make all of their money just shipping and collecting restocking fees.
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#295707 - 28/03/2007 00:45
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: MarkM]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I'm ordering from B&H in nearby New York. Using the government/educational sales, my university already has a sales rep there. Seems like a pretty legit deal from a major seller. Oh, and they somehow had the lowest price around for the camera. And, even reasonable memory prices compared to my usual vendors.
I'm excited about it. Disconcerted about the unnecessarily high megapixels and noise vs. noise reduction issues, but them's the breaks in a consumer market.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#295708 - 28/03/2007 01:13
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'm ordering from B&H in nearby New York.
Good choice.
Actually, it's pretty common net-knowledge that the only two big sight-unseen reputable dealers in NY are B&H and 17thSt. There may be others too, but picking them out of the masses of dodgy Brooklyn misfits (Brooklyn dodgers?) is nigh impossible.
Cheers
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#295709 - 28/03/2007 03:49
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Adorama is the other NY vendor typically considered a safe bet.
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#295710 - 28/03/2007 08:17
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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B&H's store is very nice too, I am visiting NYC briefly this July and am going there just to have a wander and some impulse purchasing.
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#295711 - 28/03/2007 08:39
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: g_attrill]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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I've always ordered my equipment online from B&H and have been very satisfied. I'd love to wander around in the store sometime. I'd probably crap my pants. So if you ever see a poopy pants drooler roaming around B&H, it may possibly be me.
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#295712 - 28/03/2007 10:57
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
I'd love to wander around in the store sometime. I'd probably crap my pants.
Respek' for B&H in their capacity of one of the few US stockists of the Trekstor Vibez.
Peter
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#295713 - 28/03/2007 11:53
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: FireFox31]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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The two places I use for camera gear are B&H and CameraWorld. I've only ever ordered lenses from CameraWorld, but no problem with either. I really like the B&H catalogs, fun to look at all the stuff out there.
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#295714 - 28/03/2007 19:04
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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For the left-coasters, there's also Samy's Camera.
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#295715 - 29/03/2007 07:41
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: g_attrill]
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addict
Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
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I have to admit that one thing I'd love on any digital camera is an easily accessible button that says 'reset' In fact I'd almost want it to prompt me (say after a few hours switched off) when I turn it on: Quote:
Hey, you were playing with white balance and left it on 'flash' and that was 2 weeks ago - are you *sure* you want these "once in a lifetime" shots with a nice green tint
Hell, I could probably patent that idea
David
PS thank goodness for GIMP - but I'd rather get it right in the camera
_________________________
LittleBlueThing
Running twin 30's
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#295716 - 29/03/2007 08:17
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: LittleBlueThing]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
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The Nikon D50 allready has that: Quote:
Green Dot (combined with self timer button). This resets many of the camera's controls to their defaults when held in along with the other green dot button on the top left of the back of the camera. This is handy at the beginning of each day, since it will reset everything from whatever whacky ISO, white balance, file format and other settings you were using the night before.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d50/d50-settings-controls-top.htm
_________________________
Empeg Mk1 #00177, 2.00 final, hijack 4.76
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#295717 - 01/04/2007 23:03
Re: Tips for buying a digital SLR?
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
Trekstor Vibez
Darn, I should have put those on my order, justifying them as "extra memory".
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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