#298197 - 15/05/2007 21:44
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Peter should have all of Sylar's powers. His power absorption is totally passive and he's used the telekenesis a few times: on the roof to stop Claude's attack while traiining as well as to stop the taser prongs from HRG (coincidentally also on the roof). He obtained Sylar's powers (for the first time) when they fought at Claire's school. He also instantly grabbed Claire's powers when he first met her in the hall - he had no idea what her power was nor that he had absorbed it until after he fell off the wall and suffered what should have been a fatal landing. I'd have to watch the scene again, but DL looked shot. I'm pretty sure he was bleeding. He should be able to drop the bullet out of his body of course, but I don't know about the healing. He should have had Linderman heal him before killing him.  Keep in mind that some portions of the "Next on Heroes..." may include clips of the current episode. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen this. But I'm glad you guys noticed the apparent plot hole. If DL dies that means Sylar can't get his power. But currently the present developments are all falling in line with the history explained in the future episode - down to Ando following what's written in the comic. He's supposed to die attacking Sylar and he knows it. I loved the scenes with George Takai. I was wondering if they'd bring him back in this season. One can assume that while he was once part of the organization, Linderman lost his way since then. Though I'm sure Linderman's vision for the future is not what we saw in the future episode. He's dead in that future and Sylar is posing as Nathan, so we can expect it's a complete 180 from what Linderman (and Mrs. Petrelli) have in mind. With regards to pacing of the May 15th episode, I can't complain. Felt right to me. Now if you want bad pacing and the worst episode yet of the season, you need look no further than 24. Uuuugh. 1 episode left of each - next Monday.
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#298199 - 15/05/2007 23:12
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
As for the other stuff, I'll just go down the list:
- when did we see Peter use telekinesis?
During his first fight with Syler?
Quote:
- hasn't DL phased to avoid being shot before?
He couldn't, both phase, and take the shot meant for Niki. It was my impression that he just didn't have time to reach her and phase.
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Glenn
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#298200 - 15/05/2007 23:32
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Peter should have all of Syler's powers.
Maybe. Or would Peter only get Syler's original gift.
Would Peter know he has absorbed a gift. His gift works by recalling how he felt when he met another gifted person. Cluelessness is a condition that is rampant in the show. Almost a basic plot element.
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Glenn
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#298201 - 16/05/2007 01:00
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Also, with Ted's ability to go boom, you'd think he'd put up more of a fight against Sylar.
Ted was very concerned eariler with not harming others again, saying things like "put me in a lead-lined cell" to Clea Duvall, so he's probably quite reticent to use his powers. Also, he didn't know who Sylar was, which means he doesn't know what he looks like. It's easily possible that he didn't realize that it was Sylar until his head was half open.
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Bitt Faulk
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#298202 - 16/05/2007 01:03
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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In the other thread, I think, someone said something about Claire's power being foiled when the thing that kills them remains in them, which is certainly what I thought, too. However, Peter seems to believe that it has specifically to do with that area in the back of the head where his glass shard and Claire's stick were embedded, not just anywhere. I don't know if that's a plot point or not, but it might be.
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Bitt Faulk
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#298203 - 16/05/2007 02:26
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I think that's what the person in the other thread meant. The only thing that confuses me is that they realize that the back of the neck seems to be their weakness, but wouldn't a bullet merely go through that region? It probably wouldn't lodge there, so the gun wouldn't do anything (other than hurt a hell of a lot).
I've been wondering if there really actually is a way to kill Claire. It seems that she can only be put down temporarily. Maybe if she were decapitated...
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Matt
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#298205 - 16/05/2007 11:22
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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An unrelated question...Do we know where Sylar got his ability to freeze things? For some reason, I don't remember us seeing him steal that from anyone, but it's appeared in a couple different episodes now, most recently when he broke Hiro's sword.
That's probably my only pet peave, when Sylar or Peter have powers apparently appear out of nowhere and we have no indication of how they gained them. That said, I may just not be recalling where he got that.
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~ John
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#298206 - 16/05/2007 11:50
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: DWallach]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1529
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Meanwhile, I'm modestly annoyed about Sylar and his super-hearing as well as Peter and his mind-reading. We know that the original holders of those powers had to work for quite a while to master their powers, and the super-hearing woman required an iPod. Sylar's already jumped way past that. Likewise, Parkman took a while to figure out how to shut out all the noise from crowds. It's as if Peter and Sylar have both broadly mastered the ability to control random powers.
Remember that waitress in Odessa? The first time we saw Sylar, though not his face? The waitress he killed had the ability to learn or memorize very quickly. That could explain how he knows how to use everything.
It did take him a bit to get use to the super-hearing, though. Remember the day after he killed the mechanic? He was having all kinds of issues in the car.
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#298207 - 16/05/2007 11:55
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
An unrelated question...Do we know where Sylar got his ability to freeze things? For some reason, I don't remember us seeing him steal that from anyone, but it's appeared in a couple different episodes now, most recently when he broke Hiro's sword.
That's probably my only pet peave, when Sylar or Peter have powers apparently appear out of nowhere and we have no indication of how they gained them. That said, I may just not be recalling where he got that.
Yeah, that's what I was saying in the other thread. I think someone mentioned how he might have gotten it, though...
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Matt
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#298208 - 16/05/2007 12:02
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Sylar first uses the freezing power in the online comic - to freeze a road, wiping out a few cop cars. I can't remember if he also got the power in that same comic (from the truck driver who's truck he stole). He definitely does not have the ability to tell or "see" that someone has a power - someone has to tell or show him. That's why he wanted Suresh's list so badly. Also how he killed Claire's friend thinking it was her. He's probably a great cheerleader now though. The writers *should* have done something similar to Sylar's super-hearing headache with Peter, but they didn't. They're not perfect and sometimes small details slip through. But I'm fairly certain that doesn't mean he doesn't have the power (and the others Sylar has). The ability to break down and liquify matter, like the telekenesis, isn't something passive, so I suspect he'd have to try to use it before it could be used. Not knowing the power is there is obviously a bit of a hinderance... BTW, I'm writing in this pseudo-reality way because it's simply easier to do so (not having to write the word "character all the time, etc), not because I'm so wrapped up in the show I have a hard time distinguishing TV from real life.
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#298209 - 16/05/2007 14:02
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
He's probably a great cheerleader now though.
Hahaha!
Yeah, I just got finished reading all the web comics. They really are pretty bad, though I think they improved (to merely bad, starting from awful). Bitt was right, though - if anyone here is into Heroes you should check out the "War Buddies" series. It's the only one that really adds to the show, as you get some much needed source of one of the characters motivations/backstory.
Bruno - yes, Sylar first used freezing in his first comic, but he didn't get anything from the truck driver. Actually, I think he says that the man has no abilities. Plus he kills him with flying broken beer bottles, so...
Oh, and earlier on the pacing stuff, I guess I meant the pacing of individual scenes. The episode flowed fine, but sometimes characters' lines felt rushed. Maybe it's a problem of trying to fit so many characters/plotlines in an hour.
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Matt
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#298210 - 16/05/2007 15:12
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Bitt was right, though - if anyone here is into Heroes you should check out the "War Buddies" series. It's the only one that really adds to the show, as you get some much needed source of one of the characters motivations/backstory.
To be clear, the "War Buddies" comic is just as terrible as the rest, but there is actual plot in it that is relevant to the TV show's storyline, and which was touched on in the May 14th episode.
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Bitt Faulk
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#298211 - 16/05/2007 19:32
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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For discussion: What do you guys think the symbol is? *edit* The "Helix" */edit* It keeps popping up, most notably as a tattoo on Jessica's shoulder (but not Niki, I believe). It was also recently used as a symbol for the sword repair business where Hiro was trained, and in the latest web comic as a ring that Hana was wearing. These are just three of a variety of locations its showed up. I'm not sure what to make of it.
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Matt
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#298212 - 16/05/2007 19:43
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It's clearly designed to look like a strand of RNA. I don't have any impression that it's anything more than a symbol, although it did show up in the Sureshes' displays of genetic data, a la the Matrix. But it's shown up intentionally throughout history, at least as far back as Hiro's sword (although katana hilts are not integral to the sword and are commonly replaced without any concern over the integrity of the sword, which is something that bothered me about the sword repairman scene).
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Bitt Faulk
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#298213 - 16/05/2007 20:57
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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It seems so specific that it must mean something. If they never explain it I think that'll be very odd.
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Matt
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#298214 - 16/05/2007 22:41
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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new poster
Registered: 21/10/2004
Posts: 21
Loc: California
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Quote:
I have a question for everyone:
WHAT IS NIKI'S POWER??
Here's what I've gotten from what they've explained about her character so far:
- she used to have a [twin?] sister, Jessica, who was sexually abused by their father
- Jessica died (as a result of the abuse?)
- at some point, Jessica became part of Niki
So my question is basically "what is the power that Niki and Jessica have?" Jessica apparently has super strength, but how does the multiple personality thing factor in? Is the whole mirror thing all in their mind, or is that part of Niki and/or Jessica's power?
Or do we just not know all there is about "them" yet?
*edit*
Remembering Bruno's comments about the Wikipedia Heroes articles (there's a lot up there), I checked her character bio out. I'm still a little confused, though. The opening to the article seems to indicate that Niki also has super strength when her personality is active. Does anyone remember when this happened? As far as I can tell, the super strength has only been apparent when Jessica is in control, which seems to be what is stated later on in the same bio in the powers section.
After thinking about this for a while, I think that understanding the Niki/Jessica character entirely depends on whether we know that the split personality is all a psychological issue, or something more. If it's the former, then I think it's pretty clear that the whole character that is Niki has super strength. If it's the latter, I'm not so sure...
I seem to remember a scene where Nikki was being restrained by security, while in the psychiatric ward, and one of the guards swung his club at her. She caught the club and snapped it in half, looking shocked after she realized what she had just done.
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#298215 - 22/05/2007 00:49
Re: [spoilers] Heroes on TitanTV [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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The best Sci-fi is the kind where the Sci-fi aspects arn't the story.
TitanTV and other guide listings for all I know, have Heroes flagged as Action/Drama.
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Glenn
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#298216 - 22/05/2007 01:26
Re: [spoilers] Heroes on TitanTV [/spoilers]
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
The best Sci-fi is the kind where the Sci-fi aspects arn't the story.
TitanTV and other guide listings for all I know, have Heroes flagged as Action/Drama.
I really don't consider Heroes to be Sci-Fi at all.
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Matt
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#298217 - 22/05/2007 01:43
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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"How Do you Stop an Exploding Man?" Apparently you don't! You fly him off (more on that later). The finale was pretty good, but I have some criticisms. I'm sure that if Parkman could talk at the end, he'd say "yeah, thanks kid, I'm your hero. mind if the paramedics take me to the hospital so they can fish the 5 bullets out of me?" I also thought it was odd how Claire seems to have no concern for Peter and just leaves. I'm assuming that he survives, but she isn't, even though her father and grandmother seemed to have confidence that he would. I guess Sylar knew that he had to get stabbed, because there was nothing stealthy about how Hiro went about it. Sylar could have easily stopped him. I'm a little disappointed they didn't wrap his storyline up. I was also pretty disappointed that there wasn't more of a showdown between Peter and Sylar. Peter didn't even appear to use a single previous power on him. In fact, the only thing Peter seemed to use on Sylar was Niki's strength, which he appeared to gain that moment. Some other interesting things: I don't know why this hasn't come up in our discussions, but ever since it was indicated that Peter was the bomb I've been wondering why, when he knows he'll go off, he doesn't just fly away somewhere. Well, now it certainly seems that at the moment, he can only use one power at a time. Or perhaps he hasn't trained himself enough yet. Either Candice was lying to mess with Micah's head, or she's kept up her standard illusion so long it's ingrained in her. When Niki knocked her out, I was excited to see her turn into some fat guy. Nope, just Missy (not that I'm complaining about seeing Missy again). I guess they're setting up next season's "big bad" with all of Molly's talk about the one person she's scared of finding. But that makes me wonder - how did she know to look for him in the first place? Does the company know about a super evil baddie? That's all I can think of to talk about for now. Must sleep. I had to post and get all my thoughts out before I forgot them I'm sure I forgot something though.
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Matt
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#298218 - 22/05/2007 01:51
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Oh, one more thing:
I liked how Future Hiro's prophecy came true, just not how he thought. Peter saved the cheerleader, and I think it was Claire who made Nathan do what he did. However, this raises questions about the future episode. Claire survived in that future, which means she was there to sway her father to do the right thing, which I think is what stopped the disaster.
It doesn't seem that Present Hiro brought anything back from the future that prevented the disaster, unless it was truly Sylar that was supposed to be the bomb. Can anyone pinpoint what Present Hiro did to change things?
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Matt
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#298219 - 22/05/2007 04:21
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Of course it's Sci-fi. The good old rousing space opera isn't the whole of Sci-fi. But I will admit this could be a bit like trying to define what genre a particular song should be tagged as. It's defiantly action/melodrama. It's most likely good that NBC isn't labeling it as Sci-fi, as that would most likely have stopped some viewers from tuning in. Quote:
It doesn't seem that Present Hiro brought anything back from the future that prevented the disaster, unless it was truly Sylar that was supposed to be the bomb. Can anyone pinpoint what Present Hiro did to change things?
Old Hero did the kill your father thing by influencing the past, influencing Peter, Ando, and Young Hiro. It's a time paradox, or not, the Many Worlds theory of time was proposed to cover that kind of thing. So what young Hiro brought back was a changed mindset. He doesn't become General Nakamura.
It doesn't seem anyone necessarily got dead. Peter should heal. Nathan could drop Peter and fly away before the detonation. And Syler seems to have crawled off into the sewer.
That Peter hasn't used more than one power at a time is odd.
George Taki would seem to be both Immortal, or at least long lived, and Kensai the great Samurai. (look closely at the eyes of the last Samurai shown)
And finally, I want to know what Hiro's cuss word was. edit: subtitle was @#$%!
Edited by gbeer (22/05/2007 04:26)
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Glenn
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#298220 - 22/05/2007 07:15
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Either Candice was lying to mess with Micah's head, or she's kept up her standard illusion so long it's ingrained in her. When Niki knocked her out, I was excited to see her turn into some fat guy. Nope, just Missy (not that I'm complaining about seeing Missy again).
or she knew Niki had her beat, pretended to be knocked out and switched illusions ?
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#298221 - 22/05/2007 11:15
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Old Hero did the kill your father thing by influencing the past, influencing Peter, Ando, and Young Hiro. It's a time paradox, or not, the Many Worlds theory of time was proposed to cover that kind of thing. So what young Hiro brought back was a changed mindset. He doesn't become General Nakamura.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying.
I think you're misunderstanding me as well. I already said that Future Hiro changed the past by telling Peter to save the cheerleader. That act lead to Claire living to meet her father, Nathan, and getting him to stop the bomb from happening, although presumably that would have happened in the future episode as well, so there's paradox #1. That action of relaying the message to Peter on the subway is independent of what happens in the future episode. It's implied that, as of that episode, the disaster still occurs, so the only people who know it does are Hiro and Ando, but I don't see what they did to keep it from happening, unless it was really Sylar that exploded, which still wouldn't make sense because he wouldn't have survived it to take over the Presidency.
The other thing that bothers me is that it wasn't explained why Peter blew up. He was able to control it earlier, but not later? That seems odd. Was Sylar causing him to overload or something?
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Matt
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#298222 - 22/05/2007 11:16
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Matt
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#298223 - 22/05/2007 21:30
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Oh, one more thing about that episode: the revelation (which we already suspected) that Niki and DL were carefully arranged. This implies a great deal. That "the company" either knows how to place people with abilities together to create certain abilities, or they had some way of seeing the future and knowing that Micah would be the result. Any thoughts?
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Matt
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#298224 - 23/05/2007 10:29
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
That act lead to Claire living to meet her father, Nathan, and getting him to stop the bomb from happening, although presumably that would have happened in the future episode as well, so there's paradox #1.
In the Days of Future Past episode, Mr. Bennett says that she was in hiding and that people didn't know she was alive. It's possible that he put her in hiding immediately after she was "killed" in that timeline.
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Bitt Faulk
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#298225 - 23/05/2007 10:49
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
The finale was pretty good
I completely disagree. The ending was totally lame. They could still redeem it in future episodes by making it be a false ending. That is, they blow up New York sometime in the future. But the entire thing that they've been leading up to did not occur, nor was it interestingly resolved.
I don't buy that Peter needed Nathan to fly him away at all. If it is the case that he can only use one power at once, that was never implied at any other point. And I'm not saying that they had to spell it out for us, but there has to be some implication. Given, as far as I can recall, Peter's never used two powers at once, but it's not like he's been in a situation where two powers at the same time would have been useful. Also, if he was too weak to use them, which I could buy, it would have been nice to see him at least try. Hell, that would have been a reasonable demonstration of the lack of simultaneous powers, too.
I found it odd that Peter's earlier vision of himself exploding didn't match the actual event much at all, but I suppose you can chalk that up to his visions being impressionistic. Still, it would have been nice to have seen that demonstrated, too.
As it stands right now, it does seem that the future episode has been made irrelevant. The only important thing is that Hiro went back in time to tell Peter what to do. But the whole point of us seeing the future was rendered moot. Again, at least apparently, from our current viewpoint. It would be far more interesting to have those actions in that episode be meaningful, and I'm not convinced they won't be, but this episode left me cold.
Ando's character needed far more of a conclusion. I suppose it's possible that we'll get back to him, but somehow I doubt it.
Richard Roundtree being part of the Linderman/Petrelli cabal is an interesting revelation. I always thought it was odd that they used him for such a small role. I wonder what his power will turn out to be. Do you think that Peter instinctively used Hiro's power to transport himself back in time? (Peter still seemed to physically exist in NY, though, so probably not.) Or was it a vision? Or is communicating with the future Richard Roundtree's power?
Anyway, I'm not irritated with the show enough to stop watching it, but I do think the finale was seriously lame. I wouldn't be surprised if next season fails to premiere to good ratings.
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Bitt Faulk
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#298226 - 23/05/2007 11:18
Re: [spoilers] Heroes doesn't suck [/spoilers]
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Either Candice was lying to mess with Micah's head, or she's kept up her standard illusion so long it's ingrained in her. When Niki knocked her out, I was excited to see her turn into some fat guy. Nope, just Missy (not that I'm complaining about seeing Missy again).
Agreed. Also lame. Though I can understand why they did it that way from a TV point of view. All the people not paying attention would have said to themselves "Who the hell is that?" when they turned her into an unconscious fat chick. Of course, the correct conclusion to that fight, then, would not be knocking her unconscious. After Niki won the fight and revealed Missy, she could have either then knocked her unconscious, revealing her true identity for a joke, or not.
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Bitt Faulk
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