#299164 - 10/06/2007 17:10
The Sopranos
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I have a feeling I'm doing myself a disservice by posting this, but am I the only person on the face of the planet who feels that The Sopranos is the dullest TV show ever made? I seriously don't understand why people have such a vested interest in this show. Apparently tonight is the series finale, which is worthy of thanks, but I can't get away from people talking about the damned thing. Hopefully the fans will find it to be average so I don't have to hear months of how it was awesome or how it sucked.
Okay, I've actually just primed the pump for you guys to harangue me about how I'm not seeing the brilliance of the show and then for you to go on and on about it. Like I said, I should have said nothing, but I just can't take it anymore.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299165 - 10/06/2007 18:18
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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I'm relying on torrents so although I'm only at episode 9 of the current season, I have to say I'm enjoying it. In fact, I'm watching it now. Have you watched the previous 5 seasons? I think you have to to get into the characters. Season 4 I think it fell away but Season 5 was much improved. Sorry, I dunno what to say here  Its your opinion so its fair enough. I could rant on all day about how crap and overhyped Lost is, yet others on here love it. Horses for courses.
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#299166 - 10/06/2007 18:30
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Have you watched the previous 5 seasons?
Heh. Yeah, I watched all 439 episodes of a show I hate.
No, I watched about the first maybe 5 episodes of the first season and could barely stay awake. Since then, people have shown me other episodes that they thought were great, and, other than one episode where two guys lost a body in the woods, they were all equally as boring.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299167 - 10/06/2007 18:35
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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First season wasn't the most interesting I have to say, but it picks up.
I wish they'd cut out all the psychiatrist crap. Just seems like pointless filler and slows it all down. Same with a lot of the family bits - that's probably where your boredom comes from? If you take that away and concentrate on the Mafia bits I think you'd enjoy it more. Having said that, once you do that you're left with an enormous 'Casino' or 'Goodfellas'...
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#299168 - 10/06/2007 18:41
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, I've never been particularly enamored of the whole gangster genre. There are a few entries in it that I do enjoy (Miller's Crossing comes to mind), but if you're relying on the gangster part to sell me on it, you're fighting a losing battle.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299169 - 10/06/2007 18:44
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Speaking of people raving about TV, do you get Big Brother in the US? It signals months of hell for me. You can't have a conversation at work without people talking about it NON-FECKING STOP.
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#299170 - 10/06/2007 18:57
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
Speaking of people raving about TV, do you get Big Brother in the US?
Fecking or Feckless, I find the whole concept of reality TV, the Z list "celebrities" it creates, and the whole industry that lives off them, totally extraordinary, but it's cheap and it fills in hours when television companies seem to have nothing better to offer us.
Maybe I'm being unfair: I haven't watched a single minute of BB, I haven't watched a single minute of Sopranos either, but at least it gave prominance to R.L. Burnside and that's no bad thing!
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#299171 - 10/06/2007 18:57
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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There is a US version of Big Brother, IIRC, but it's not an immensely popular reality show here. I think. It seems like the hate-filled reality shows have largely been overtaken by the talentless idiot reality shows here.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299172 - 10/06/2007 18:59
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Don't get me started on talent shows/'celebrity' talent shows...
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#299173 - 10/06/2007 19:18
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
It signals months of hell for me. You can't have a conversation at work without people talking about it NON-FECKING STOP.
What annoys me is that news.bbc talk about it non-fecking stop. They're worse about it than about Doctor Who ("Billie Piper Denies Rumour Tom Cruise To Replace Laurence Fishburne As Character Not Appearing In Doctor Who"), or Horizon ("New Evidence About Homo Floresiensis Which Was Squarely Debunked Five Months Ago But We Made A Horizon About It Just Before That, So We'll Kind Of Pretend It's New Again") but at least those are on the BBC's own frickin' channels!
Peter
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#299175 - 10/06/2007 20:36
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Just to be clear, as much as I dislike The Sopranos, it is certainly head-and-shoulders better than any "reality" show. I'd rather see Shasta McNasty renewed than have to hear another word about one of these idiotic shows. I still can't believe Veronica Mars was cancelled in favor of Farmer Wants a Wife. It's awesome to hear about the Veronica Mars campaign. I'm going to have to waste some money on that myself. It's amazing to hear about the numbers of people who have this much interest in saving a show, compared to the number of viewers that the official ratings show watch it. It seems to me that that indicates that there's something seriously wrong with the ratings system in this country.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299176 - 11/06/2007 01:00
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
Well, I've never been particularly enamored of the whole gangster genre. There are a few entries in it that I do enjoy (Miller's Crossing comes to mind), but if you're relying on the gangster part to sell me on it, you're fighting a losing battle.
This is something I'll never understand about people, and it seems endemic in America: I don't like something, therefore it sucks, and I know it sucks because I don't like anything that's similar.
I can understand not liking the Sopranos. I can understand not liking the gangster genre. But when you put the two together, what can anyone take away from the comment? It's like me saying "I don't like modern jazz, and doesn't it all really suck?"
Basically, what I've done there is say "I don't like modern jazz", but then attempted to validate my view by saying it's because it sucks. Does anyone but me see the flaw in logic there? Who am I to say whether modern jazz all sucks if I simply don't like modern jazz? If I were to say "Boy, I love most modern jazz, but I find artist X to be trite and formulaic" then we would have something. I am, in this case, critiquing the artist fairly; since I generally enjoy the genre, but I don't enjoy this offering.
No offense intended, and I'm actually very interested in hearing what people (especially Bitt) have to say on this, but it just strikes me as similar to a person who doesn't like death metal reviewing the new Lamb of God album: what's the point?
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Dave
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#299177 - 11/06/2007 01:33
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I don't dislike the gangster genre, either. It's just if you're trying to base your explanation of why it's good on the fact that it's gangster-y, that's a non-argument. It's not that I dislike gangster movies, but nor do I like them solely because they are.
I was responding specifically to the notion that if I "concentrated on the Mafia bits" that I might enjoy it more. And the non-stereotypical parts are the parts that would have interested me, but they're equally as dull.
And since I can't get away from people talking about it, clearly it's not a niche audience who do like it solely because it's a gangster story. I can certainly understand why some people might enjoy The Sopranos. What I don't understand is this undying obsession with the show from virtually everyone I come in contact with.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299178 - 11/06/2007 02:32
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Ahh, understood.
First, Bitt, thanks for the clear reply. I really appreciate the fact that you seem to have taken my post in exactly the spirit it was intended.
Second, in a lot of ways I agree with you. I really do like the Sopranos (well, did like the Sopranos), but not because of the gangster genre bit. I think it's simply that I really enjoyed the characters. And I have to say that, while you may not like the show from what you've seen, it took a long time for me to get into it as well. I really believe it's one of those shows that you have to get inside the characters' heads, so to speak, before it becomes truly enjoyable. It's a cumulative effect, no doubt.
That said, I can definitely commiserate... I, for the most part, loathe Star Trek and all its variants, and when I worked in IT it was a fücking nightmare having to listen to people talk about it all the time. I finally just got snarky and told the fanboys that if they felt the need to talk about it, please do it away from my desk and out of earshot. So you have my sympathy.
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Dave
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#299179 - 11/06/2007 02:50
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Quote:
It signals months of hell for me. You can't have a conversation at work without people talking about it NON-FECKING STOP.
What annoys me is that news.bbc talk about it non-fecking stop.
Not to go too far off on a news tangent, but be glad the BBC doesn't find such stories worthy of BIG RED BREAKING NEWS BANNERS and such. I couldn't believe when a coworker went there for news the other day and Paris Hilton throwing a tantrum on the way to jail was worthy of such bold markup on the frontpage to equal a terrorist attack. Really reaffirmed my decision not to go to US based "news" sources. At least the BBC gossip doesn't turn into front page breaking news.
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#299180 - 11/06/2007 05:01
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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SWMBO has enjoyed 3 series' of Big Brother - each time she had recently given birth and was up a fair bit at night feeding a baby and she said its lack of anything requiring a brain was perfect for that sort of situation. Now we have stopped (hopefully) having any more kids she is cured:-)
All reality shows suck (IMHO) but I'm also not a huge fan of TV anyway. Too much dross packaged for the masses. Jeez, I'm so jaded. Off to play on the trampoline with the kids now:-)
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#299181 - 11/06/2007 10:54
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I still can't believe Veronica Mars was cancelled in favor of Farmer Wants a Wife.
That pissed me off to no end. I couldn't wrap my head around their new fall schedule. This is a really great way to start off their new venture as the CW. Just a year in and they've started dumping their non-standard TV shows. Have you seen the previews for that "Palms" show (Hidden Palms or something)? It looks like your standard OC clone. The reviews for it were hilarious.
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Matt
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#299182 - 11/06/2007 11:03
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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I couldn't believe when a coworker went there for news the other day and Paris Hilton throwing a tantrum on the way to jail was worthy of such bold markup on the frontpage to equal a terrorist attack.
IMO the re-jailing of Paris Hilton was a story about the US justice system not, in fact, being a complete joke, which a lot of people must have thought it was when she was let out, sorry re-assigned, the first time. Depending on one's expectations, the correct working of the justice system, as applied to billionaires, might indeed be important headline news. Or it might not.
Peter
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#299183 - 11/06/2007 11:53
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Depending on one's expectations, the correct working of the justice system, as applied to billionaires, might indeed be important headline news. Or it might not.
Fair enough. But I think at some point, CNN needs to just decide what level of story should be elevated to such status ahead of time, and not drag out their klaxons on slow news days just for fun. This is a prime example from last year (found via images.google.com)
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#299184 - 11/06/2007 12:08
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: webroach]
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addict
Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
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TV has changed immensely for Denise and I over the past 3.5 years. We pre-record *everything* on MythTV and hence never catch glimpses of BB or shows we don't want to invest time in (eg Sopranos). Instead we have many hundreds of hours of drama stored on a Tb array - we just see what takes our fancy and watch it; We've got the last 2 series of 24 to watch; the last 2 series of Lost; We haven't watched the 'news' for over 3 years either - new.bbc.co.uk etc does it well enough. Although I have to admit that I have heard of the existence of Paris Hilton - one of the downsides of speed reading a web page I suppose. At work it's amazing the number of major news stories that seem to have passed me by - I had no idea that something really, really important had happened on a really, really popular reality TV show that I'd never heard of - bliss. I suppose it limits interaction in things like the recent Heroes thread - but I'm on a different continent so it's not synchronised anyway. All in all it's an excellent way to filter out the mindless Oprah/Big Brother crap (and that is crap isn't it, not just something *I* don't like) and select the genres we prefer (Firefly, Babylon5, House, Greys Anatomy, Heroes, Boston Legal, The Clangers, Cold Case, Malcolm, NCIS, Profiler...) So Bitt, I have no idea if the Sopranos is dull. I haven't seen a single second of it - but I'm not into 'mob' dramas so it got filtered out Now Heroes... Does anyone see a resemblance between "The 4400" and "Heroes". Last week in The 4400 (lbt's timezone, UK Oct 2006 for the rest of you) we had a mind-reading 4400, a body-shifting 4400, a healing 4400, a time-travel 4400... Of course Heroes is *so* much better but...
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LittleBlueThing
Running twin 30's
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#299185 - 11/06/2007 12:22
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: LittleBlueThing]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Actually, The 4400 reminds me of this series of novels published in the 80s and 90s called Wild Cards. But that's beside the point. Both Heroes and The 4400 are superhero fiction, and, as such, will have superficially similar characters -- there are only so many superpowers one can come up with -- but they have different focuses. Heroes' focus is about the struggle to save the world, whereas The 4400 is about the struggle to be accepted. Both are interesting, but in vastly different ways. I'd hope that we'll see more about the acceptance part in Heroes at some later date, especially given the "future" episode of Heroes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299187 - 11/06/2007 12:30
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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On a complete tangent, what is the deal with the 3rd-grader webmasters over at AICN? Why do we need 32-point font, red messages randomly interspersed with 40-point and 48-point fonts?
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Bitt Faulk
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#299188 - 11/06/2007 12:36
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: LittleBlueThing]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Does anyone see a resemblance between "The 4400" and "Heroes". Last week in The 4400 (lbt's timezone, UK Oct 2006 for the rest of you) we had a mind-reading 4400, a body-shifting 4400, a healing 4400, a time-travel 4400...
You do realize that the 4400 was on long before Heroes, right (about two years and two months)? Heroes is hardly the most original show that ever aired. If anything, the premise for the 4400 is far more creative and intriguing.
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Of course Heroes is *so* much better but...
Debatable. The 4400 has some problems, but most of them come down to the fact that I dislike the low budget feel it has, which I'm sure is out of necessity. Thinking back on it, I think I like The 4400 more as a series, mostly for what Bitt said. Like the X-Men, it's more about acceptance than the mythology. Because of this and because of the premise of the show, the writers have thought of some very interesting powers. It's unlikely that Heroes will spend an entire episode on someone who can smell pheromones and tell whether two people were meant for each other.
There's also an episode of The 4400 that I like far more than any episode of Heroes, and that's the one where Tom is given an entire life in a split second. I watched that one a few times.
*edit*
Wait a minute, are you talking about a rerun of The 4400? The new season hasn't started yet. You had me freaked out because I had the premiere down on my calendar for this coming Sunday (June 17th).
So basically what you're saying is that The 4400 copied Heroes, even though the episode you're watching aired before Heroes premiered?
Edited by Dignan (11/06/2007 12:42)
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Matt
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#299190 - 11/06/2007 13:00
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
the one where Tom is given an entire life in a split second
Which itself was a total ripoff of the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Inner Light". I'd probably have enjoyed that episode of The 4400 more if I hadn't already seen it. And I don't mean that it had a similar plot. It was almost like they took the ST:TNG episode and changed the names. I'm not sure whether it makes it better or worse that The 4400 has two writer-producers that were also writer-producers on various Star Treks of the time. And one of them wrote that episode.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299191 - 11/06/2007 14:34
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Quote:
the one where Tom is given an entire life in a split second
Which itself was a total ripoff of the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Inner Light".
I haven't seen either the Star Trek or 4400 episode (I hadn't even heard of 4400 until just now) but the concept sounds very much like both Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge" (1890) and Borges's "The Secret Miracle" (1944). Perhaps both programmes just ripped it off from one of those?
Peter
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#299193 - 11/06/2007 14:58
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Does anyone see a resemblance between "The 4400" and "Heroes". Last week in The 4400 (lbt's timezone, UK Oct 2006 for the rest of you) we had a mind-reading 4400, a body-shifting 4400, a healing 4400, a time-travel 4400...
You do realize that the 4400 was on long before Heroes, right (about two years and two months)?
yep - we're so up to date here in the UK.
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Heroes is hardly the most original show that ever aired. If anything, the premise for the 4400 is far more creative and intriguing.
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Of course Heroes is *so* much better but...
Debatable. The 4400 has some problems, but most of them come down to the fact that I dislike the low budget feel it has, which I'm sure is out of necessity. Thinking back on it, I think I like The 4400 more as a series, mostly for what Bitt said. Like the X-Men, it's more about acceptance than the mythology. Because of this and because of the premise of the show, the writers have thought of some very interesting powers. It's unlikely that Heroes will spend an entire episode on someone who can smell pheromones and tell whether two people were meant for each other.
True, the premise is better. Script, acting and execution aren't. Though Heroes is a bit 'bitty' with the 3 threads per episode thing. Still, Hiro makes up for most things 
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There's also an episode of The 4400 that I like far more than any episode of Heroes, and that's the one where Tom is given an entire life in a split second. I watched that one a few times.
Like Jean-Luc with his piccolo.
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*edit*
Wait a minute, are you talking about a rerun of The 4400?
PVR. Recorded last October - see. PVRs make you a TV-discussion outcasts ;(
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So basically what you're saying is that The 4400 copied Heroes, even though the episode you're watching aired before Heroes premiered?
No, that Heroes reminded me of 4400 - I just watched the shows in the same evening and they had the same powers - bad planning on the broadcasters part if you ask me - I'll speak to her
[edit: note to self: must read rest of thread before replying]
Edited by LittleBlueThing (11/06/2007 14:59)
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LittleBlueThing
Running twin 30's
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#299194 - 11/06/2007 15:00
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
the one where Tom is given an entire life in a split second
Which itself was a total ripoff of the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Inner Light".
Oh, I'm aware that the concept of the episode was not original in the least, but that wasn't my point. Anyone watching it knew how it would play out, because you knew they weren't going to get rid of Tom. I didn't like it for the gimmick, but how it was handled.
I also want to add that, particularly given the last several episodes of Heroes, The 4400 doesn't require me to take as many leaps of logic.
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Matt
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#299195 - 11/06/2007 15:06
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: LittleBlueThing]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ah, sorry. I wasn't aware that you were watching from the UK. The way you stated it in your post seemed to indicate that you were accusing The 4400 of too closely copying Heroes.
I will agree that The 4400 has its problems, which I still attribute to a smaller budget than Heroes. Still, I think they're doing a better job at telling their story than Heroes is.
And who is the "time-traveling 4400"? Collier? If so, I wouldn't say it's quite the same ability.
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Matt
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#299196 - 11/06/2007 15:11
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I haven't seen either the Star Trek or 4400 episode (I hadn't even heard of 4400 until just now) but the concept sounds very much like both Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge" (1890) and Borges's "The Secret Miracle" (1944).
Well, the difference between the ST and 4400 stories, and Owl Creek, Secret Miracle, Jacob's Ladder, and Last Temptation of Christ is:
Spoiler:
Gur ynggre fgbevrf ner nyy erirnyrq nf yvsr unccravat va gur zbzrag bs qrngu, jurernf gur sbezre ner nyy nobhg "gur yvsr lbh'ir yvirq hagvy abj unf orra snagnfl naq guvf vf lbhe erny yvsr", hagvy gur arj erny yvsr vf erirnyrq nf n snagnfl, naq gura nssrpgf gur erny erny yvsr sebz gung cbvag sbejneq. Hygvzngryl, gur ynggre unir ab vasyhrapr ba nalbar ohg gur crefba rkcrevrapvat gur snagnfl, jurernf gur sbezre vaqverpgyl vasyhrapr rirelbar ryfr, gbb.
Anyway, regardless of all of that, the ST and 4400 stories were incredibly similar, almost to the level of plagiarism, IMO.
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I hadn't even heard of 4400 until just now
If you have any interest in scifi, it's worth checking out. It's got a low-budget feel to it, and it can be a little overly episodic, a la The X-Files, at times, but there's more to it than you might expect.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299197 - 11/06/2007 20:00
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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My impression of the one episode(about a marriage when Pa was let out of prison) I saw recently (after having absorbed all the good press):
Is That All There Is?
(sorry)
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#299198 - 11/06/2007 20:51
Re: The Sopranos
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
My impression of the one episode(about a marriage when Pa was let out of prison) I saw recently (after having absorbed all the good press):
Is That All There Is?
(sorry)
Assuming you're talking about the Sopranos, here, the thing to keep in mind is that, again, this is so not the type of show where you can just catch an episode here and there. It would be like reading a single chapter of Proust (comparison for the sake of scope, not style or anything). Taken out of the larger context, your response to the episode is totally sensible.
_________________________
Dave
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