#299253 - 11/06/2007 19:09
Vista pains
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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So, I'm trying to honestly use Vista, instead of just sitting on the sidelines and poking it with a stick. Eventually my job will require it in some form, so I might as well get the problems out of the way now. To continue from the triple boot thread I somewhat derailed, I'm looking for a possible way of remote controlling only the keyboard and mouse on the Vista box from another machine. Currently, I use Synergy, but it can't touch UAC dialogs, even when run as an admin, and secure desktop turned off. Is there an alternative program that is Vista compliant? Bonus points if it maps mouse movement properly in DirectX programs (synergy gets screwy even on XP when a game runs). Remote desktop is out, as I need to be able to run Direct3D apps. Also, what happened to Microsoft Update? If I visit http://update.microsoft.com/ , I get told to run the built in Windows Update. And that only updates Windows. I'd like to keep other MS apps up to date as well, like Office and Visual Studio. Lastly, anyone seen an RSS gadget that actually lets me specify my own RSS feed, including authentication? It's the one use I could see for the Sidebar, and the built in one is stuck feeding me MS sponsored propaganda. A search of the gadgets site turned up one that hasn't been updated in ages, and also doesn't do authentication.
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#299254 - 11/06/2007 19:38
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I hate to say it - I'm not contributing meaningfully. But read this: Aaargh!!!
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#299255 - 11/06/2007 20:47
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
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Quote:
Lastly, anyone seen an RSS gadget that actually lets me specify my own RSS feed, including authentication? It's the one use I could see for the Sidebar, and the built in one is stuck feeding me MS sponsored propaganda. A search of the gadgets site turned up one that hasn't been updated in ages, and also doesn't do authentication.
The M$ RSS Gadget uses the IE RSS Subscription feature, so if you want to edit the sites it's pulling from launch the bloated IE7 and modify the feeds it's downloading.
Hopefully that helps....
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Oliver
mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126
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#299256 - 12/06/2007 07:56
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
I get told to run the built in Windows Update. And that only updates Windows.
On the built-in Windows Update page, there's a link (I think it's in a yellow box) that says "Get updates for other Microsoft products". Click it.
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-- roger
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#299257 - 12/06/2007 07:58
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Currently, I use Synergy, but it can't touch UAC dialogs
Turn off UAC?
_________________________
-- roger
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#299258 - 12/06/2007 13:28
Re: Vista pains
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Quote:
I get told to run the built in Windows Update. And that only updates Windows.
On the built-in Windows Update page, there's a link (I think it's in a yellow box) that says "Get updates for other Microsoft products". Click it.
Ahh, ok. Found this at home, but not at work. Looks like if any domain settings are set for auto updates, Vista interprets this as "Only use Windows Update" where as XP allowed changing it over to Microsoft Update.
I'm going to go let the ops group know they will probably want to create a vista group for the domain policies.
Edited by drakino (12/06/2007 14:24)
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#299259 - 12/06/2007 13:30
Re: Vista pains
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Quote:
Currently, I use Synergy, but it can't touch UAC dialogs
Turn off UAC?
Defeats the purpose of trying to live with it, but I haven't found a solution yet either. I thought that was the whole point of the secure desktop setting, but it looks like that doesn't help for this situation.
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#299260 - 12/06/2007 13:55
Re: Vista pains
[Re: oliver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
The M$ RSS Gadget uses the IE RSS Subscription feature, so if you want to edit the sites it's pulling from launch the bloated IE7 and modify the feeds it's downloading.
Hopefully that helps....
It helped yesterday. This morning, the feed was stale even though I set it to a 15 minute update cycle. Open IE 7, click the feed, and I'm told "Internet Explorer cannot update password protected feeds". So much for the usefulness of that.
Also as a mini rant, moving and organizing gadgets has to be one of the most frustrating things I've seen. So when the gadget is on the sidebar, I can't make it taller to see more stories. When I detach it from the sidebar, it grows, but still no size control. Then, if I want the larger version, but still on the right edge of the screen, the gadget bar sucks it back in with no warning. Took me about 5 times of messing with it to find the exact edge of where it sucks in gadgets. I don't want the bar on the right, and there seems to be no way to just turn off the bar but have gadgets on the desktop.
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#299261 - 12/06/2007 14:21
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
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I just turned off the sidebar, as it's completely useless waste of memory and screen real estate.
Actually, you can move it to different edges of the screen. When I manually launch the sidebar it's on the left edge of my #2 monitor. My #2 is to the left of #1.
I think the settings for that are in the control panel under sidebar.
The one feature which has caused me to stay with vista, is the search bar in the start menu. That alone makes up for all the other shortcomings in my mind.
Can you drag and drop files into vs.net 2005 with UAC enabled? Because for some reason, I can't drag and drop anything into vs.net without turning off UAC completely.
_________________________
Oliver
mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126
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#299262 - 12/06/2007 14:21
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Probably going to go let the ops group know they will probably want to create a vista group for the domain policies.
That's not a bad idea, but they should look into using WSUS (or whatever it's called) for updating your Windows PCs at work.
_________________________
-- roger
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#299263 - 12/06/2007 14:23
Re: Vista pains
[Re: oliver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Can you drag and drop files into vs.net 2005 with UAC enabled? Because for some reason, I can't drag and drop anything into vs.net without turning off UAC completely.
Depends. Did you launch VS 2005 with elevation? If so, that's why. You can't drag and drop things between elevation levels.
_________________________
-- roger
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#299264 - 12/06/2007 15:19
Re: Vista pains
[Re: oliver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I just turned off the sidebar, as it's completely useless waste of memory and screen real estate.
The sidebar is genuinely useful to me for only one thing. There is a "Live Search Maps" plugin that remembers the map location and zoom level across reboots, and will overlay traffic commute data. So I can have it zoomed in to the critical areas of my 520 commute during the day, and I can keep an eye on it as the afternoon progresses, and get an idea about which route I will be taking home.
Of course, the only reason I need this is because I'm working at Microsoft. Go figure. 
It's also nice (but not hugely useful) having the calendar gadget up so I can glance over and see the date instantly (since the date doesn't appear on the taskbar clock without a time-consuming hover).
As far as screen real estate, I'm doing dual monitors so it works really well to have it on my secondary monitor.
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#299265 - 14/06/2007 08:06
Re: Vista pains
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
It's also nice (but not hugely useful) having the calendar gadget up so I can glance over and see the date instantly (since the date doesn't appear on the taskbar clock without a time-consuming hover).
You can add the date to the time on the taskbar in XP - assume you can do the same in Vista?
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#299266 - 14/06/2007 15:07
Re: Vista pains
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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How?
(Without making the taskbar any bigger. You can double the size of the taskbar so the date appears on a second line. But that ruins the screen real estate on my first monitor.)
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#299267 - 25/06/2007 18:08
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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New issue, why is Vista interpreting permissions differently then XP? (see attached)
I'm trying to delete a folder with a bunch of files in it off a network share. XP does it fine, Vista says I don't have permission. Both machines are on the same domain, and both machines are logged in with my domain account.
Attachments
300807-VistavsXPdelete.jpg (169 downloads)
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#299268 - 25/06/2007 19:26
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 525
Loc: Oklahoma
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Does your domain account have Admin perms?
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#299269 - 25/06/2007 19:39
Re: Vista pains
[Re: Ladmo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Does your domain account have Admin perms?
Nope, not a domain admin. And on Vista, UAC is off (too many issues with having it on, even ignoring Synergy problems).
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#299270 - 25/06/2007 21:15
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 525
Loc: Oklahoma
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You may need to take ownership of the folder (and flies/folders in it)before it will allow you to delete the folder. Let me know if it gives you an error number or exact error verbage and I'll look it up for ya.
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#299271 - 25/06/2007 21:47
Re: Vista pains
[Re: Ladmo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I can't take ownership of the files on XP or Vista. My big question with this is why does it work on XP but not Vista? It's going to be a pain to have to remote into an XP box or Linux box to nuke them if I try to shift my main windows box to Vista.
Vista is allowing me to delete folders and files I create in that same spot.
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#299272 - 26/06/2007 12:26
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Are the screenshots you posted permissions on the folder or a file?
Also, "then" is a time-related word. "Than" is a comparison-related word.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#299273 - 26/06/2007 13:08
Re: Vista pains
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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That's a folder in the screenshot. I get the same permission errors when attempting to delete files, even though effective permissions show the same things between XP and Vista. It even shows delete permission on individual files I check.
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#299274 - 26/06/2007 13:16
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Are you sure that the fileserver that you're connecting to sees the user that you're using on Vista as the same user you're using on 2000? That is, they may have the same name, but that doesn't mean that they're the same user, as far as Windows is concerned. It may be a local user versus a domain user, or two different local users. This is probably stuff you've already considered, but it's worth asking.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#299275 - 26/06/2007 17:43
Re: Vista pains
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
Are the screenshots you posted permissions on the folder or a file?
Also, "then" is a time-related word. "Than" is a comparison-related word.
Incorrect; it's nowhere near that simple. Perhaps in the given context the wrong word was used, but your simplification of the semantic load of "then" and "than" doesn't really work, Bitt.
"then" can also be used in a comparative role: if you buy Vista, then you should be prepared for heartache when dealing with permissions.
"than" can also be used in a temporal role (albeit a bit archaic): no sooner was the work begun than it was completed.
Worth noting is that in the "then" example, though it is used in a comparative role, it also has a temporal component, and while the "that" example usage is primarily temporal, there is also a comparative component.
_________________________
Dave
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#299276 - 26/06/2007 18:06
Re: Vista pains
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
it's nowhere near that simple.
Agreed.
Quote:
Perhaps in the given context the wrong word was used, but your simplification of the semantic load of "then" and "than" doesn't really work, Bitt.
Tom consistently uses "then" instead of "than". I was trying to simplify it.
Quote:
"then" can also be used in a comparative role: if you buy Vista, then you should be prepared for heartache when dealing with permissions.
I don't see that as comparative at all. It's still temporal to me. It's referring to a potential future. What do you think it's comparing?
Quote:
"than" can also be used in a temporal role (albeit a bit archaic): no sooner was the work begun than it was completed.
This is clearly a comparative use, given the word "sooner". Just because you're using it with a temporal verb doesn't make it temporally related. That's like saying that "work" is temporal because it's used in the same sentence. Or that "than" is distance-related in the sentence "he was farther away than he thought".
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Bitt Faulk
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#299278 - 27/06/2007 14:56
Re: Vista pains
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Depreciated Components:
WinHelp and HTML help (.chm) files support. Windows Vista introduces a new help model ... Older formats will continue to be supported for legacy applications through a downloadable WinHelp component, which will not be in Windows Vista by default.
They couldn't just include the help file viewer? "Lets screw the users and developers, that'll teach them to upgrade their help files to our new format"?
Matthew
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#299279 - 27/06/2007 15:32
Re: Vista pains
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Depreciated Components:
Really? Even Microsoft, the biggest software company in the world, can't get the word "deprecated" right?
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Bitt Faulk
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#299280 - 27/06/2007 17:24
Re: Vista pains
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Unfortunately that was my error. I'm spending the day at Vista Camp where, out of pure generosity, MS has paid to educate us IT workers about the wonders of vista. However, they don't provide the training materials in digital form, so cut and pasting was out.
Matthew
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#299281 - 27/06/2007 22:51
Re: Vista pains
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Quote:
Depreciated Components:
WinHelp and HTML help (.chm) files support. Windows Vista introduces a new help model ... Older formats will continue to be supported for legacy applications through a downloadable WinHelp component, which will not be in Windows Vista by default.
They couldn't just include the help file viewer? "Lets screw the users and developers, that'll teach them to upgrade their help files to our new format"?
Matthew
I suspect it's an attempt by MS to encourage developers to move to the new format. The alternative being the hordes of clueless calling to complain that the help is missing/broken after moving to Vista.
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Glenn
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#299282 - 28/06/2007 01:53
Re: Vista pains
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I suspect it's an attempt by MS to encourage developers to move to the new format. The alternative being the hordes of clueless calling to complain that the help is missing/broken after moving to Vista.
Because no one is going to be running software that was written pre-Vista and call to complain that their help files aren't working. :/
Apple solved this problem by making pre-OSX software unusable except through an explicit hack.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299283 - 28/06/2007 06:23
Re: Vista pains
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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The removal of the WinHelp viewer could also be to reduce security concerns. They have had to patch WinHelp so so many times over the years, I suspect there is no real way to make it secure without throwing it away or re-engineering it which would probably break a load of help files anyway.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#299284 - 28/06/2007 11:53
Re: Vista pains
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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WinHelp has security problems? For God's sake, it's a f'n text viewer.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299285 - 28/06/2007 12:11
Re: Vista pains
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
WinHelp has security problems? For God's sake, it's a f'n text viewer.
WinHelp has had massive security problems. They stem from the fact that it uses the IE rendering engine for its HTML based help files.
It first used the IE rendering engine in more innocent times, which left it wide open to all sorts of security holes. They have patched it and patched it but they still find new problems.
One of the recent patches involved stopping users opening random HTML help files without first setting a property on the file in explorer. If you copy an HTML help file from a file share to your local machine now it won't display the contents until you have jumped through some hoops to tell Windows to allow you to open that HTML help file.
Fun eh ?
Edit: And it isn't just a text viewer, it is a hypertext viewer with support for scripting, ActiveX controls etc
...and yes, it's a mess.
Edited by andy (28/06/2007 12:18)
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#299286 - 28/06/2007 12:39
Re: Vista pains
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
WinHelp has had massive security problems. They stem from the fact that it uses the IE rendering engine for its HTML based help files.
Replacing the original Windows Help with the HTML stuff was one of the most arrogant and user-contemptuous things I've ever seen Microsoft do, which is saying something. The release notes at the time (1995? 96?) said something like "This isn't yet as good as the thing it replaces, but we've replaced it anyway because we can make it better later." Thanks, but I'd rather have waited until you had something as good as what you were replacing... the first version of HTML Help wasn't even capable of scrolling down a single page when you pressed Page Down -- it scrolled down a page-and-a-half, so you had to scroll up a bit again to hunt for the bit you were reading. I can't imagine what was going through the head of anyone who thought it was shippable in that condition.
Peter
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#299287 - 28/06/2007 12:51
Re: Vista pains
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Replacing the original Windows Help with the HTML stuff was one of the most arrogant and user-contemptuous things I've ever seen Microsoft do, which is saying something.
If I remember rightly they managed to break context sensitive help for VB6 at the same time, which was a huge pain in the arse.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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