After having a problem with my Harmony remote not charging and dealing with Logitech's incompetent support, I have two extra remotes, at least one of which is nearly unusable in its default state due to the fact that you have to use Logitech's web site to generate configurations, they check serial numbers, and my old one's has been blacklisted.

So I figure it would be neat to remove their software in its entirety and create something new. However, I have no idea where to start. Anyone have any ideas?

Why would they blacklist a remote control?!

So that I can no longer use it, since it's been replaced. Well, no longer change its configuration, anyway.

I find it remarkable that they didn't want the old one back, and I'd have been much happier paying 1/3 the price for a single one that worked properly to begin with, but what are you going to do?

The answer is, I guess, use it for something else.

Cost on a Harmony remote is under $20 - they'd jut toss it in the trash if you sent it back. To be specific, cost on the B&W LCD models was about $18 and the 880 about $40 in January 2005. I was told they expected to have the 880 down to 20 before the end of 2005 and with profit projections above $50 MILLION for the Harmony brand (super bonuses paid out to employees at that amount), I think they did it.

I had a couple of BD thermometers that, together, cost less than $20. When they stopped working, I called their customer service, and they sent out coupons to get two new ones (for free), as well as a box with a couple of biohazard bags, to send the broken ones back. They wanted their QA lab to find out why they weren't working.

Too bad Logitech isn't similarly enlightened.

They used to be, but I'm assuming they've been through enough 1000's to know every point of failure by now. IMO, while the idea is sound, the current Logitech remotes aren't built well at all - regardless of their retail price. In all honesty I can't recommend them, even to a tech-savvy consumer.

I'd assume the same with these thermometers, as well -- there's a whole lot less electronics in a digital thermometer, than there are in one of Logitech's remote controls. Of course, Logitech wouldn't be able to reproduce a customer's entertainment center setup to aid in their debugging...

They know exactly what is wrong with my remote. Nothing. The problem is with the mis-designed charging station. There are three spring contacts on the station. Their fix was to remove the middle one and plug the hole. One wonders why it was there if it was not needed. I don't know if the three springs together were too stiff or if it was that the springs wouldn't line up properly or what.

I suppose it's possible that the remote was also redesigned to only use two of its contacts, too, making it effectively defective, since it requires the defective-style charger.

So you're talking about writing the main application from scratch? I would think that would be quite a mammoth task if just to get all the remote codes. That's part of the good thing with Logitech - you just tell it your components and it does a sort of generic set up with all the codes retrieved from the central database. Of course if they go bust the remote is basically useless.

It still requires a ton of customisation work though as everyone who has one knows.

One thing that particularly annoys me about the official software is moving the soft buttons around - you have to click, move the mouse to the new location, click, move the mouse to the new location etc...

edit: Or perhaps you're talking about replacing the software on the actual remote control? I think that might be quite a bit harder again.

Yes, I want to replace the software on the remote.

Remote codes are not all that difficult; there's a database of remote codes.

The thing that irritates me the most about the Harmony remote is that there's no way to program a macro, except for the "Activities" list. Once I've selected an "activity", one button produces one code, and that's it. I'd really like to be able to, for example, press a single button to turn on my closed captioning, but that would require a macro. So I can't do it.

I hate to say it, Bitt, but that's why I dislike the Harmony remotes so much. You have no control over the remote, and you're a slave to the codes they have in their database.

With my Pronto, I can do anything I want to. Sure, it takes a lot more work, but it is so very worth it in the end. I have discrete codes for all my devices, so I don't ever have to worry about that annoying "is the ___ on?" screen. If it didn't work, I can just hit the button again and it'll get it, because with discrete codes, I'm able to put my home theater in any state from any state.

The Logitech is nice, but the Pronto gives you complete control.

But the Pronto hardware design is awful, whereas the Harmony is mediocre.

Also, the cheapest Pronto is $336, whereas I got my Harmony for $150.

True, true. All true. I guess I should have added that I keep two remotes. My coffee table, at all times, has my Pronto and my Tivo remote. But still, even if I had the Harmony, I would not give up the Tivo remote. I wouldn't trade the Tivo remote for anything.

My Pronto is used 80% of the time just for its home screen, which I've set up with macros for the various inputs (Tivo, DVD, Power Off, etc.). When the DVD button is pressed, it's set to automatically go to the DVD screen, and I use the Pronto for the DVD player, because you rarely need more than three or four buttons (and the D-pad) to control a DVD player. I then have a button dedicated in all modes to return me to the main screen.

I admit, due to the hardware design, my setup is less than elegant (that dedicated home button I was talking about is attached to the "Channel Up" hard button), but it passes the only important test: the wife can use it.

I got my Pronto NG TSU3000 for around $150 on ebay or somewhere, and that was with the rechargeable battery and dock. Still, I would rather spend another $100 or so over the Harmony to be able to do what I want.

I use my Harmony almost exactly the same way.

Hello,

I`m in the same situation now. Logitech is sending me a new remote and disabled my old one from the system, the only problem with the old one is the backlight.... I can probably take it apart and fix it bu the remote is programmed for my HT down stairs... and I would love to use it upstairs. Is there anyway to program it with out Harmony website ?

Just wanted to take this opportunity to point out that Philips launched some new remotes that fit into the Harmony way of doing things. I'm not sure if they're quite as functional, but they're about half the cost.

Also, I had no idea that there was a new Pronto out. I think it's the most attractive remote anyone has made yet.

And yet they still put a dedicated channel up and down button on it. Didn't that go out of use when basic cable came out ages ago? Dedicated volume I can understand, but really, who goes through channel by channel to get to what they want with enough frequency to demand a dedicated button set?

These new universal remotes with screens are the perfect chance to fully rethink interfacing with our home theaters, but yet they still all hold onto legacy designs.

Anybody who doesn't live and die by the TV schedule. How many times have you channel surfed, trying to see if there was anything worth watching?

Of course, with the advent of TiVos or other PVRs, that has changed because there is always something worth watching just a button push away if you are so equipped.

If I didn't have TiVo (or equivalent) I would sell my TV and do without. Live television is completely unwatchable.

tanstaafl.

I can agree with you to some extent, but I would point out that the channel up/down buttons have mostly started to double as page up/down buttons, and those are buttons I use all the time in on-screen guides and particularly in my 8-page Now Playing list on my Tivo (and that's with folders). Sure, I'd rather see PG on the remote than CH, but it doesn't really bug me too much. Not if my remote looked like that.

And there's another argument: it doesn't matter what the buttons are labeled. I have an older Pronto, and my channel up button is programmed as a "home" button, always going back to the main macro screen. My channel down button changes duties based on where you are. I know, the label on the remote is annoying in that case, but again, it doesn't bother me.

Oh, and I apologize for totally hijacking the thread from the person asking a question. Sorry about that...

Honestly? Never. Not on any type of pay TV service anyhow. Though most of the time it has been on a satellite or digital cable service so channel changing was painfully slow anyhow. I'd always just pull up the guide and scroll through it.

Page up and down would be a good relabeling. I've seen remotes with both Page scrolling keys and channel keys separate though, again begging the question of why.

Me being awkward again, but I use the channel up and down buttons almost exclusively. I haven't seen any cable/satellite tv solution with a decent/fast enough menu system to make it effective to navigate so it is faster to flick through than call up the guide and browse it. Oh, and I don't watch mutch telly anyway, so if I'm bored I flick up and down until something looks interesting. Okay I know the numbers for Discovery and Kerrang and BBC News 24 but that is about it.

Really wanted to know if there is a way to program H659 with out logitech servers ?

Yeah, sorry about that.

I was under the impression that it was not possible to program any Harmony remote without the web interface. It's possible that a group of people are working on a third-party solution, but I doubt it. You may find more luck at the Remote Central forums, though. That's the place to go for anything related to universal remotes.

Thanks. I had to start some where

Here's a belated welcome to the empeg BBS. What you just saw here is a regular off topic tangent. It's more the norm, but useful info still usually comes out on the main topic.

Feel free to stay around if you want, and also check back in a few days, as not everyone here reads the boards on a daily basis.



Nah, it's not awkward. I was more curious then anything, as I have generally found them to be worthless space on a remote. But it seems plenty of use is still had from them by most. I got spoiled by the quick UI on the Replay units I guess to be able to fly though the guide. Really a shame in general that there have been so many great ideas in the TV space that are sitting discarded alongside the road now.

Thanks. I will, just seems to me that some one should be able to hack this thing to not use logitech servers. I can keep the current setup as is, and maybe open it up and fix the backlight, but really wanted to use this on my setup upstairs with DTIVO and an all-in-one tv/vcr/dvd. And the new one on my main setup downstairs

That's a valid wish, and exactly what I would have wanted out of the Harmony remotes. I had an 880 for about a week and returned it out of frustration, because I was able to do far more with my much older Pronto TSU1000 (which is looking OLD these days) than I could with the Harmony. The Harmony had a much nicer design, but I couldn't stand its limitations in the area of discrete codes. With the Pronto, I was able to utilize about twice the number of discrete codes that I was on the Logitech, because it was up to me to put in the work to find them, and not the Logitech people.

Example: it's not the simplest thing to do, but it's possible to create discrete codes for nearly every Sony device. Just use this site to get the values, and a program called MakeHex to get the Pronto IR codes. With that combo, I'm able to be 100% certain that if I press the "Tivo" button on my remote, it will get me to my Tivo, and if something happens (someone walks in front of the remote during the macro, for instance), I'm 100% certain that if I press that button again, it WILL get me to my Tivo.

When I had the Harmony, if anything went wrong in the macro, I had to go through the annoying process of "is this device on? is this device on? is this device on?" until the system got back to normal, all because Logitech had almost no discrete codes for my equipment.

Sorry for the rant again, and yohz, sorry again for derailing your post. I didn't notice that you were a new poster at first. Feel free to post here any time, as the members are extremely helpful.

yozh, be sure to stroll through the For Sale section in search of your next techno-romance: a MK2a! Then the fun really begins! LOL

Lol well. I posted on that other forum. Nothing noone knows how to do this. This seems sad, all the crazy thing that can be done and nothing on this ? Very strange

Well, they finally added macros, but called them "sequences". Here are the limitations.

• There is a Maximum of 5 commands per Sequence.
• The amount of sequences per account is unlimited, however, there is a maximum of 10 sequences per Activity.
• It is not possible to use Sequences in Picture Mode, Sound Mode or Device Mode.

Notably, there doesn't seem to be any way to daisy-chain sequences. So if you want to do something that takes more than 5 keypresses, too bad. You can at least now divide the number of keypresses by five.

5 commands isn't enough for me either. I have a sequence to run RCE DVDs on my region free HD-DVD player that takes about 9 key presses.

First thing I thought was to join two sequences together but as you say that's impossible.

Just purchased a Harmony One...

Everything, all of it, (Blu-Ray, S3, HDVR2) is working well, It will switch from viewing one to the other. All the buttons work their respective items. Except for the plasma. A Panny TH-C50FH18.

For some reason the remote is just flaky when trying to turn on and off this TV. I wind up resorting to the HELLp button. Which eventually gets the plasma either on or off, but does little good after the next shutdown.

It doesn't seem to be an out of sync problem. When I toggle the remote to the plasma device, few of the soft buttons work at all.

Ok, part of the problem is that while the tivo will accept signals bounced of the ceiling, the plasma won't.

Because it's sending commands to multiple devices you do have to hold it up longer than a regular press particularly with some of the defaults where it may wait seconds between presses depending on your device. This can require a fair bit of trial and error when you first set things up or get a new device.

I noticed that. The problem I'm seeing, is that once the TV fails to start as part of an activity sequence, additional attempts to repeat the activity, also fail to start the TV.

It seems that, once the Harmony One thinks the tv is on, it refuses to resend tv-on commands. That kind of makes sense, if the tv-on was a toggle, instead of discrete.

For my folks, I need it to be simple, if the activity fails, repeat it, but make sure the remote is pointing at the TV. That stupid help yes/no cycle isn't going to work. They won't put up with it. Heck I won't put up with it.

Press the off button, then try again.

When you first press the Help button, any discrete power commands should immediately be (re)sent, even before you respond to any questions.

At least that's how their software has always worked in the past.