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#315904 - 04/11/2008 22:30 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: gbeer]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Yes, my California ballot contained
  • 2 federal races,
  • 2 state races,
  • 4 local races (including some like school board where you can vote for up to 4 people per race),
  • 1 county ballot initiative,
  • 3 district ballot initiatives, and
  • 12 state propositions
all described in 3 different booklets the state mailed me
  • the aforementioned 100 page ballot pamphlet for state initiatives,
  • as well as a smaller booklet containing the sample ballot and details on the local propositions,
  • and then a 3rd one which contained details of one of the propositions which was replaced by a different one after the original cut-off date.


That being said, I had about a 1 minute (or less) wait at sign-in, there were 4 voting booths (all empty) plus two big tables where people could sit down and spread their booklets out if they didn't mind others watching them vote. So it was geared up for a much bigger crowd than the one that was there when I was.

They had like 10 or 12 pollworkers and only 1 or 2 voters.

I went with my already marked sample ballot in hand and was in and out in 16 minutes. More on that in next post.




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#315910 - 05/11/2008 00:16 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: music]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Just so you don't think I only complain about electronic balloting,
here's my whining about the paper ones.

Why did it take me 16 minutes to fill in my ballot even though I already had all my selections pre-marked on my "sample ballot"?

Fortunately, we ditched the electronic voting machines several elections back.
(California has another election seemingly every 6 hours.)

Well, (1) I always triple-check ballots just like I do tax forms
(according to Dan W as well as empirical evidence from the State of Florida most people can't be
so bothered to spend a little extra time on these little things like death, war, and taxes),
and (2) I had one of those "draw the line between two arrows" ballots.

Strangely, there was some interaction between the roller in the ballpoint pen and the ink on the left half of the arrow.
On every single line (drawing left to right), the pen would pick up a little wax(?) or otherwise be confused
by skipping down off the ballot ink and it would leave a small gap before the start of the line.

I.e., the whole point of this ballot is to provide an unbroken line from one side to the other.
But the pen left a small gap on the left side of every line.
So I had to go back and ink in the gap.

Kind of weird. And I assume this is not at all a common problem.
Just worth whining about a little bit.

Further complaints, as I have mentioned here before, all of our ballots go into an unlocked cardboard box!
I suppose that's better than the false sense of security I'd get if they went into a locked metal box to which every single pollworker had the key....
But still, paper ballot security is non-existent at my polling station, other than that I got to tear a numbered receipt off of the end of my ballot.

I think I had mentioned here that in previous elections, the pollworker would look at your ballot as he placed it into the cardboard box.
That was remedied a while back with a confidentiality sleeve that you wrap around the ballot as you personally drop it into the cardboard box.

Now the pollworkers have to wait to read and/or modify your ballot until after you leave!


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#315912 - 05/11/2008 00:58 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: music]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
It ain't over 'til it's over, but the networks are calling Ohio for Obama, and McCain can't win without Ohio unless there's some sudden influx of conservatives in California and the Pacific NW that I'm unaware of.

TV projections have certainly been wrong before, but if they're right, this one is over. I will not be cracking open my celebratory beer until I see some 100% reporting numbers in the close states, tho.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#315914 - 05/11/2008 02:25 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tonyc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Looks to be over now. Concession speech from McCain, and clearly not a repeat of the disaster that was the 2000 election process.

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#315915 - 05/11/2008 02:59 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: tfabris
It will probably be a lot closer than that, unfortunately.


Well, I stand corrected. States I was sure would go to McCain, like New Mexico, went blue. Ohio? Who would have thunk it. This is about as close to a "landslide" as you can get in our electoral system.

I'm unhappy that California passed its poorly-named gaybasher law, but I don't live there anymore so I can just pretend I didn't know about it.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#315916 - 05/11/2008 04:08 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
It was a great speech, and I'm delighted to have experienced this day. I'm left with a lot of hope for our country's future.
_________________________
Matt

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#315918 - 05/11/2008 04:49 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: tfabris
I'm unhappy that California passed its poorly-named gaybasher law, but I don't live there anymore so I can just pretend I didn't know about it.


So you're calling that one with only 20% of the voting precincts reporting?


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#315919 - 05/11/2008 05:36 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: hybrid8]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
I'll do some crossing of fingers as well (toes too if it helps) in hopes that all the states that matter do their part to put Obama in office.

Well, looks like the fantastic joke that was Sarah can now go back to her town hall in Wasilla. Oh, you say she's still governor? Ouch!

Quote:
I can't fathom why/how someone would vote Republican right now, but I also couldn't believe GW made it in the first time and then got propped for a second term. Definitely the two most epic fails of the past decade.

Yeah, not exactly the party of Lincoln, is it? I have to remind myself that the Democrats were just as bad or worse through most of the 20th century.

I don't know if I can generalize about current-day Republicans but it is clear that a good chunk of them are stuck celebrating ignorance and "averageness". Heaven forbid that we should have a president who is *smart*. I would say that I was being harsh and snooty if not for the comments of conservatives like David Brooks:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html

I can remember a time when the notion of conservative Republicans wasn't a cruel joke. Like 1964. Barry Goldwater. Seriously. You might not have agreed with Barry, but he wasn't an ignoramus.

I was so caught up by the notion of having somebody smart elected as president that my hand slipped -- my pen tried to mark down a vote for the Green Party candidate but it made a mark for Barack Obama instead. I hope he appreciates that. This man has his work cut out for him. He now has a lot of people who will be waiting for "Change" and who can be easily disappointed.

Strangely, as much as some folks decried left-wing Bush "haters", I never heard about radicals who were stalking the ignoramus-in-chief. By contrast, I fear that the inbred enemies of a President Obama won't be quite so subtle. I really, really hope that we can celebrate this victory but I expect that the Secret Service will need to be in top form.

Why celebrate? Not sure I can celebrate, really, but an Obama victory does provide a small amount of reassurance....that, unlike 2000 (or 2004?) that the election wasn't stolen. This time.


_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#315920 - 05/11/2008 10:04 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: wfaulk]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 998
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Originally Posted By: Redrum
As well I can't understand why voting Republican seem unfathomable to democrats.

Because we can't find any Republican policies that have stood the test of time. Also, many of the stated platforms are disingenuous or contradictory. Especially, in both cases, Republican economic policy.

It was about trickle-down economics. This didn't work, and produced one of the largest redistributions of wealth in US history, conglomerating in the upper class. It was about reducing taxes and reducing government spending. But under Republicans, taxes are reduced, mostly on the upper class and businesses, but spending continues to increase. It was about reducing regulation, but that only ever ends up creating a crisis. (Do I really need a link for this one?)

The social policies I (vehemently) disagree with, but understand. But many "technical" policies, the economic ones in particular, have been shown to simply not work.


Ah yes, thank. I never really put it together before. Hatred toward all… condescending attitude… blaming them for all your problems … scapegoats, got it.

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#315921 - 05/11/2008 11:34 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: tfabris
I'm unhappy that California passed its poorly-named gaybasher law, but I don't live there anymore so I can just pretend I didn't know about it.

So here's a question. It took forty-five years' civil-rights work to get from MLK having a dream, to Obama living that dream. How long will it take from California Proposition 8 until the first LGBT president? These exit polls by age group seem to indicate that, again, it'll take about a generation.

Peter

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#315922 - 05/11/2008 12:46 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: Redrum]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: Redrum
Ah yes, thank. I never really put it together before. Hatred toward all… condescending attitude… blaming them for all your problems … scapegoats, got it.

Huh?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#315923 - 05/11/2008 12:58 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: wfaulk]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Originally Posted By: Redrum
Ah yes, thank. I never really put it together before. Hatred toward all… condescending attitude… blaming them for all your problems … scapegoats, got it.

Huh?

He must be refering to the official gay-bashing in California.

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#315924 - 05/11/2008 13:18 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: mlord]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The results still indicate to me that the US is rife with bigots and idiots. Don't get me wrong, Canada is too, it just doesn't have as visible (and loud) an election process.

I still can't for the life of me wrap my brain around how anyone with a right mind would vote McCain unless they were paid large sums of money to do so, blackmailed to do so or threatened with serious bodily harm to do so.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#315925 - 05/11/2008 13:54 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: hybrid8]
petteri
addict

Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
The results still indicate to me that the US is rife with bigots and idiots. SNIP

I still can't for the life of me wrap my brain around how anyone with a right mind would vote McCain unless they were paid large sums of money to do so, blackmailed to do so or threatened with serious bodily harm to do so.


Fear I think motivates many. That can lead to hate and all sorts of nasty things.

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#315926 - 05/11/2008 14:30 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: petteri]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah, exit polls said that the biggest indicator of voting for McCain was if terrorism was your primary concern.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#315928 - 05/11/2008 14:37 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: petteri]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
With the CA gay marriage ban likely to pass, it's certainly a bittersweet day for American equality. Yes, we just elected a black man, but Arizona also banned gay marriage yesterday, and Arkansas passed a ban on gay adoption.

It will be interesting to see if the GOP chases this micro-trend over the next four years, selling out to the social conservative wing of the party, or if they try to reinvent themselves with more paleoconservative rhetoric. We should get a clue based on who they put in the Congressional leadership positions for the 111th Congress.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#315929 - 05/11/2008 14:43 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
The results still indicate to me that the US is rife with bigots and idiots.


Yup. Again, they're mostly outside the urban archipelago.

Quote:
I still can't for the life of me wrap my brain around how anyone with a right mind would vote McCain


A friend of mine spoke very eloquently on this topic four years ago. They voted for McCain because the democratic party represents things that, to them, are utterly alien and terrible.

Now, as much as ever, we absolutely need to understand why someone would have voted for McCain. Obama himself more or less said so last night; he needs to be everyone's president, not just the half that voted for him.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#315931 - 05/11/2008 15:03 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
And I'm amused at this, too.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#315932 - 05/11/2008 15:20 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Interestingly (or perhaps ironically) the local news has stated
that the high turnout of older African Americans and various
immigrant and minority groups to vote for Obama was a major
contributing factor in the passage of Proposition 8
(the anti-gay-marriage proposition).

Those groups tend to have very "traditional" views toward marriage
and supported that proposition.


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#315933 - 05/11/2008 15:31 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: music]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Rather a bittersweet result there.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#315936 - 05/11/2008 17:35 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: andym]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
And this one's rich:

Originally Posted By: The New York Times
"Among the more unusual measures on this year’s ballots was one in Florida that would repeal an old clause in the state constitution that allows legislators to bar Asian immigrants from owning land. The repeal would be symbolic, as equal protection laws would prevent lawmakers from applying the ban. With 78 percent of precincts reporting just before 11 p.m., the vote was close, with 52 percent voting to preserve the clause."
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#315937 - 05/11/2008 18:04 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Damn Celestials.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#315939 - 05/11/2008 19:06 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: andym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
This is as good an occasion as any to return to life here smile

So, congratulations, my dear American friends, on regaining your great country! Pete Seeger comes to mind, singing "This Land is Your Land" (after having overcome, of course).

Cheers!

Bonzi
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#315942 - 05/11/2008 19:13 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tfabris]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: tfabris
This is about as close to a "landslide" as you can get in our electoral system.


Well, if you count that strange American invention, electoral votes, stranger things have been seen, say in 1964, 1972 or 1984.

Bonzi

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#315943 - 05/11/2008 19:19 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: jimhogan]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
Yeah, not exactly the party of Lincoln, is it? I have to remind myself that the Democrats were just as bad or worse through most of the 20th century.


Yeah, like being strong supporters of apartheid (err, segregation) on the "traditional South". But, let me again paraphrase Pete Seeger, "We Have Overcome"!

Cheers!

Bonzi

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#315945 - 05/11/2008 20:14 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: Dignan]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Quote:
It was a great speech, and I'm delighted to have experienced this day. I'm left with a lot of hope for our country's future.


Yes, Senator Obama, congratulations on being elected Captain of the Titanic.

(Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm afraid the damage already done by Bush over the past 8 years, and the immense damage he will attempt in the next 25 days, have put the US into a desperate situation from which recovery will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible.)

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#315946 - 05/11/2008 20:23 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: bonzi]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Wow! You've not posted in years! Where have you been?
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#315947 - 05/11/2008 20:29 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tanstaafl.]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
Quote:
It was a great speech, and I'm delighted to have experienced this day. I'm left with a lot of hope for our country's future.


Yes, Senator Obama, congratulations on being elected Captain of the Titanic.

(Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm afraid the damage already done by Bush over the past 8 years, and the immense damage he will attempt in the next 25 days, have put the US into a desperate situation from which recovery will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible.)

True, but the first step for any possible recovery is to get a captain who has the sense to stop ramming the iceberg after seeing how bad it went the first time. Stay the course!

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#315953 - 05/11/2008 20:49 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: bonzi]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Hi Bonzi!

Glad to see you're ok. I wondered what happened to you.
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#315959 - 06/11/2008 00:13 Re: US Election 2008 [Re: tanstaafl.]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.

Yes, Senator Obama, congratulations on being elected Captain of the Titanic.

I think if you and I ever meet up for that big "Who's the *real* pessimist here?" arm wrassle, there's a good chance I could easily walk away with the title and the belt.

I think I am pretty clear-eyed about our current predicaments and the limited value of traditional American politics. I don't tend to be a groupie.

Funny, though, the past day. Watching video from Grant Park and from downtown Seattle and from Nairobi. November 4, 2008 was frickin HUGE. It is almost a pleasure to watch the BBC reporting now that we know "it's safe". Barack seems pretty well grounded and, dang!, he is actually SMART!!!. Michelle seems pretty normal and SMART too!!! (I pray that we don't find out that she is actually some harpie from Hell.) And he has 2 kids who are cute and maybe normal. And who get a puppy.

Anyhow, you have folks gravitating to the Lincoln Memorial to reflect on this day. This is not stage managed. It is people. So I hope there is some cause for optimism.

You want to talk about the global impact of this election? Well dig this:

It woke Bonzi up from his slumber.

So there.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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