So far so good. We had a crash/reboot this morning as I had hoped.

Situation so far:

Ran the machine with only DIMM#1 in memory slot #1 for a few days with no issues. Did a few manual reboots and memtests with no errors reported.

Switched over to running with DIMM#2 in slot #2 for a couple of days. At some point last night the system rebooted itself which then loaded memtest which I had left in the optical drive (on purpose). 25 errors tested within the first pass, then the errors stopped happening. It was at 26 passes by the time I checked the system this AM. I suppose I could have checked the memtest "uptime" to tell when the system rebooted.

Now I'm on to the third test where I've swapped DIMM#2 into slot #1 - this will hopefully let me know if it's a memory module or memory controller/mobo issue.

I restarted a little while ago into memtest. DIMM#2 in Slot #1 showed a lot of errors. Over 500 before test 4 was complete and it looked like the number was still rising.

I've now removed that DIMM and reinstalled DIMM#1 into slot #1 as a sanity check. I will run this module longer than I did the first time and under greater load. Once I've done that then I'll run it in slot #2 to complete the whole test pass and help make sure I'm not actually seeing two failure points (mobo and memory).

I hope you're intending to give DIMM#2 a good kicking for all the trouble it's caused you. Um, unless it's still in warranty I suppose, in which case that might prejudice your return process...

Peter

The modules are a matched set from Crucial and are definitely under warranty. Otherwise I'd likely just snap it in half.

I have to take a look at their replacement policy, hopefully they can cross-ship a new pair so I don't have to shuffle my PVR parts to my other system again.

Blah. After running seemingly without issue for quite a few days, the machine restarted tonight and showed a lot of errors on the module I thought was likely ok.

Turned the system off briefly (obviously not long enough) and it ran for about 2 hours before crapping out again.

I've since shut it down for about 5 minutes and verified that a new run of memtest isn't producing errors.

I think I'm going to RMA the memory and the mobo now.

Before heading down the RMA route I did a bit more searching... Came across a few people that also had errors only after crashes. And some other people with occasional errors.

Lots of people in these search results seem to be using Crucial Ballistix memory. Made me a little worried. More than a few also with ASUS mobos.

Anyway, based on some info I decided to check the timings and voltage of the memory. FIrst I checked to see if the options existed in my BIOS. They did, I had to turn off a couple of AUTO settings to be able to set mem voltage to 2.0 and timings to 5,5,5,15.

I then set it back to AUTO because I realized I hadn't checked what the system was reporting it had been automatically set to. Memtest reported that the memory timings were 5,5,5,18 but I didn't look elsewhere on how to check what the voltage was.

So now I'm running with the specs of the actual modules manually set for the mobo. 2.0v and 5,5,5,15. CPU settings are still set to AUTO.

I'll give this a few days. This brings me back to one of my original points. What kind of POS mobo requires you to make manual memory settings to maintain stability? ASUS=POS.

Oh, I'm also currently running Prime95 trying to stress the system with a pair of blended tests

The auto settings just uses the SPD settings from the memory module, so i think you have to blame the memory module for containing the wrong information, and not asus.
It does happen that spd info is programmed wrong (or even faked, to pretend to be faster memory)
You could try to read your spd with: http://www.techpowerup.com/spdtool/

Did you buy EPP or EMP memory by any chance? Unless your motherboard can read the extra data in the DIMM SPD EEPROM, it won't be able to actually run the memory at its rated settings without manual help.

The SPD tool says the modules are "EPP Supported" in the EPP identifier property. There's a ton of information in the report, which is (and should be) irrelevant to me.

When all is said and done, there's still the fact that this setup ran since December until last month without so much as a single hiccup. No system changes were made in that time.

If could afford it, I'd have snapped the memory module and motherboard in half already and chalked it up to experience (again). Every ASUS mobo I've ever had eventually goes bad.

My system uses EPP memory as well and it was mostly stable with the defaults. It'd work okay for months but then I'd get a random crash or two. I had to manually set it to 2.1V as per the memory datasheet for it to actually be 100% stable however.

After 5 hours the Prime95 test halted with an error in one of its test processes (it runs two at the same time, one for each core I suppose).

Neither the CPU nor the memory modules are even remotely hot. I wouldn't even call them warm.

As mentioned, I'm currently running with settings manually input as per the label on the memory modules.

Restart the system and Memtest shows a significant number of errors. It was up to 80 while on test #4 before I stopped it.

I think I'm done testing, so it's time to check out how to get the mobo and memory replaced. Though I can't see why this won't happen again a few months from now.

It is threads like this that make me glad I gave up building my own PCs years ago. Sure, the up front savings look tempting (not that the savings are as great as they used to be anyway), but the occasional complete screw up like this more that wipes it out with hassle and wasted time.

Totally agreed. I'm sure young me would call current me an old man.

No kidding.

To tell you the truth, there really aren't any significant savings to speak of. If I did't already have something and needed a system, I'd likely just buy one pre-built. The simple fact is that this time around I only needed a few parts (mobo, memory, processor and PS). I suppose those few parts are the majority of what constitutes a system though. And at some point you just have to stop using parts you already have around. I could have given up the case as it's a home theater style case, but the system is now being used exclusively as a server, hidden in the basement.

It occurs to me that back in the day you used to have to add all sorts of expansion cards to computers to get what you wanted, whereas now, most people, I think, run with very few cards at all. Chances are now that a desktop system has cards that override devices that are built into the motherboard: video, audio, network, etc.

In the days of yore, if you ordered a preconfigured system, you probably weren't going to get the expansion cards you wanted, which meant that you were going to have to discard a good portion of the system you got.

Now, though, even if you build it all yourself, your motherboard is going to have all those baseline devices built in anyway, which means that you're not overspending by buying the base preconfigured system. Plus you get the fact that it was tested as a unit and you get some support on top of that. Also, Dell, et al., are doing a really good job with cases these days.

</rationalization>

For non-notebooks, I still assemble from scratch. It's the only way to avoid having to pay for a copy of an operating system that I really REALLY don't want.

And since I purchase wholesale, the prices are quite reasonable, and I get to customize with the exact specific brands/models of components desired. Ditto for ongoing upgrades and the like.

This is particularly handy for the MythTV boxes -- an off the shelf Dell or something would simply lack the required expansion room for drives, tuners, VFD front panel display, etc..

For notebooks, I buy new/used according to what's available at the time, and obviously don't assemble those myself. The useless copy of Windows that I'm forced to pay for ends up sitting in the shrink wrap until the unit is resold years later.

Cheers

Oooh. Have you found a decent one of those?

Peter

The fancy Antec Fusion case I used for my own Myth box included a very readable 16x2 VFD as stock gear. I've programmed it to show useful status info, and it's just peachy (stock Myth can also drive it, but my own software does a much nicer job of it).

Unfortunately, Antec has since switched to using unreadable backlit LCDs in the current versions of the Fusion case. Ugh.

Cheers

Well, my argument was mostly for normal desktop computers, not special purpose stuff. You have a point.

I was going to say that you couldn't get a big discount buying parts yourself, even with the MS tax. But I just went to Newegg and spec'd out the cheapest computer I could. Less than $200. Given, it's not exactly a power house, but that's a complete, functional computer.

Damn.

Looks like you can buy a VFD from Antec that just pops into a 3.5" drive bay. Is it the same one that came with yours?

...and if you spend a whole $75 more with Dell you'll get a PC with 4 times the disk space, 4 times the memory, a RW DVD drive and a faster CPU. The time I'd spend putting it together (let alone any time I might spend troubleshooting if it didn't work) is worth more than $75 to me.

If you buy from the Dell outlet store you can pretty much match the newegg price, within $5. I had never considered the outlet store before, but used it a couple of times recently with great success.

That one does look rather similar, yes. On the Fusion case, the knob is separate, way over to the right. But otherwise probably the same unit.

Speaking of the knob -- what were they thinking?
I mean, who in their right mind wants to get up off the chesterfield to adjust playback volume ??? That's what remote controls are for!

My software simply uses the knob as a way to scroll the text display, useful for checking on the status of the machine when not actually sitting down to watch something.

Cheers

I've been doing the same recently, it's really a great way to go. Ironically, it's an even better for businesses, as XP Pro/Vista Business don't incur the $100 markup.

My latest find was an Optiplex 760 minitower with a 3Ghz C2D for $320 out the door. Small HD/Memory, but those weren't a priority for this one. Optiplexes have much better cases than inspirons and come with a 3 year warranty. I'm adding in a Intel NIC and using it as a home ESXi server.

I just now had a look at the Dell Canada "outlet store". Lots of "Sorry there are currently no products in this category" messages there.

Looks like perhaps a place to hunt for discounted notebooks, but most of them are subspec for what we require here. And he desktops there are definitely more expensive than what I can buy/build from parts.

The warranties are also inferior, typically just a few months, compared with 1-2 years on purchased parts elsewhere.

I suppose that might all vary from week to week. And country to country.

Cheers

It does, a lot. Luckily in the UK with our relatively strong consumer protection laws we are get the same 12 month warranty on the outlet stuff as we would picking the lowest warranty option on the non-outlet stuff.

You have to be careful as well, sometimes the price can be a little "random", on the UK store at least.

Incidentally, the problem I'm having with my system is getting worse. Even using the DIMM that I thought earlier might be OK, the system will no longer stay up for a full day. I suppose since the issues are memory errors, this could be totally random depending on how the memory is used at any particular moment. But so far three reboots in 24 hours without doing anything out of the ordinary.

Hm. I so expected the parts computer to be pricier, and then so surprised that it was so cheap, that I failed to finish my comparison.

Getting the specs a little closer brings me to within about $60 of the Dell. Regardless of putting it all together, the fact that Dell makes sure their stuff works together is worth that amount.

Weird, I submitted a reply to this thread and it's not showing up. Might not have finished posting and I may have closed the window...

Anyway, on Dell's Canadian site I can't see any detailed specs for any desktops. Can't see images or details about the back panel nor the inside of the machine. Don't know what ports nor slots any of the machines have.

With Dell you generally have no clue what you're buying and you can't even see or touch the systems in any stores.

I'm now waiting for replies to my RMA requests from both Crucial and ASUS. I wonder if I should RMA the processor while I'm at it? The machine will be down anyway, and I can't really be sure the processor isn't a contributor...

Dell Canada Vostro 200 product page. Click on the "Gallery" link to see a lot of pictures of the machine, including the back panel. Click on the "Tech Specs" tab to see innards details. Seems pretty through and precise to me.

Hmmm.. WTF. I could swear that Tech Specs tab wasn't on the pages I was looking at. I even remember scanning the tabs to see if there was a useful one.

I'm pretty sure the text gallery link was always there and I missed it.

Bottom line is I knew if it did exist, someone would let me know.

Still can't necessarily configure the system you want though. For instance, if you want the big Vostro case, then you're also taking a 256MB video card. If you want a Core 2 Duo instead of a Core Quad and only 2GB instead of 3GB of memory, then you're paying only $50 less ($600) than for their featured Quad system ($649).

So there are plenty of reasons and plenty of dollar savings to be had by building your own apparently. Especially if you're just wanting to build-out a case you already have in addition to some other parts. The bad part is the integration issue crap-shoot as has been mentioned. And having to warranty one item at a tine to different vendors if something does go wrong.