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#330821 - 06/03/2010 05:02 Website re-design leaves site completely worthless
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Want to see web design gone bad? What happens to a site when change is put in place solely for the sake of change, without regard to usability nor functionality.

Take a look at the new design for http://kijiji.com and the compare it to the Canadian version at http://kijiji.ca

I like the blue background and typefaces on the US site. But everything else was a jump back at least 10 years in web design. The site is no longer dynamic/fluid width. There's no columnar separation of content types (dates run ragged on the right side of listings), there's no way to alter search categories once you've started a search. No advanced search abilities. You can't specify a distance radius from the city you're searching in. Some item links open in the current window, others force open a new window - WTF. Also there are less ways to sort the results list (you can't reverse the date sort).

On the plus side, the actual page for the individual ads looks quite nice.

But the site is so devoid of functionality it's really just a pale ghost compared to the Canadian site.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330823 - 06/03/2010 11:54 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
The new home page reminds me of on of those pages you get when searching and they just have a bunch of ads and random words on them so they come up in google.
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Matt

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#330824 - 06/03/2010 12:54 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: msaeger]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12148
Loc: Sterling, VA
I don't think either version looks any good, frankly. You say the new one is "a jump back at least 10 years in web design." Well the old one looks like it's 15 years. Besides, it looks like a cross between Craigslist and ebay.

The worst part about the new site, from what I've seen, is that when I looked at the sale listings, and hovered over the small images attached to each one, a larger version would come up, but it would come up about 200 pixels down the page, covering another listing and looking really unprofessional.

Anyway, I've never even heard of the site, I think I'd rather post my stuff on Craigslist where it'll get some eyeballs.
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Matt

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#330826 - 06/03/2010 13:25 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Kijiji is owned by eBay. Much more useful than Craigslist in many markets. I mean, if you're looking for stuff and not cruising personal ads. wink

The Canadian site has a lot of features, not eye candy. BTW, Craigslist is ugly as sin, with a UI and features equally scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In today's marketplace, you're likely to get more traction advertising on Kijiji. That is, once the US site gets it balls back.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330828 - 06/03/2010 14:58 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
This is the first time I have heard of Kijiji so I think putting an item for sale on craigslist will get more people seeing it no matter how ugly it may be.

The few listings there are on Kijiji may look better but a lot of that is because the users took the effort to make them better. There's no reason people on craigslist couldn't have longer, better descriptions and more photos.

http://minneapolisstpaul.kijiji.com/furniture/?catId=100140

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/fua/
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Matt

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#330833 - 06/03/2010 20:31 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: msaeger]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12148
Loc: Sterling, VA
I didn't say that Craigslist wasn't ugly, it's ugly as hell, but neither of the sites you linked look any good at all, and the older version that you're touting as great web design looks decidedly "Web 1.0"

And like the other Matt said, this is the first time I've heard of the site, and I'd be willing to bet that not a single person I know has ever heard of it. I'll be hanging out with friends tonight, so I'll do an informal poll smile For that reason, I post stuff on Craigslist and will continue to do so. However, if it's free, there's no harm in posting things in both places.

Heaven knows I've had plenty of losers respond to ads on Craiglist. I've had several no-shows for almost all the things I've sold on there.
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Matt

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#330834 - 06/03/2010 22:50 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Dignan]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
We can't talk about Craigslist without mentioning
http://www.searchtempest.com/
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#330835 - 06/03/2010 22:53 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Kijiji, as I've mentioned, is more popular than Craigslist in many places. Canada is one of those places. You can read accounts from other people on the net about how an ad on Kijiji has gotten them quicker sales. It may be lesser known among tech-type people, but it's got a large following in the non-tech crowd. And when you're selling random shit, those are the people you want to see your ad. Ads on Kijiji are done through a form - you don't have to format them yourself. And yes, by all means, post on both sites and any other sites you can. If you have specialized stuff to sell, there are specialized places to go as well. But that's all besides the point and has nothing to do with why I started this thread.

BTW, I also didn't say I liked the design of the Canadian site. It's plain, but not ugly. I sad that this was a perfect example of a re-design gone bad, making the site next to useless. Craigslist on the other hand is nearly useless because its design and functionality suck equally. But I don't want to talk about Craigslist either.

I'm starting to feel like I posted this thread to the comments thread of Gizmodo or something, and not the empeg BBS.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330837 - 07/03/2010 07:21 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Then let's talk about how annoying Google's top bar fade-in is.
What I want from Google is utility! I don't want to wait a couple seconds while I'm forced to be impressed by the 'cleanliness' of their home page. I don't want to have to wiggle my mouse around to get the top bar to magically appear.
I just want to click immediately on 'maps' or 'gmail' or any of the other nifty links in the top bar.


I finally had enough of it and found a greasemonkey script to kill it.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#330847 - 07/03/2010 12:18 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Damn, I hadn't noticed that Google fade. When did they start that? You're positively right, it stinks.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330851 - 07/03/2010 12:54 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14105
Loc: Canada
New in 2010. Stinks.

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#330854 - 07/03/2010 13:11 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Quote:

In today's marketplace, you're likely to get more traction advertising on Kijiji. That is, once the US site gets it balls back.


I was just disputing the fact that I would get more traction on Kijiji than craigslist.

http://www.searchtempest.com/ is a neat idea but it does the really annoying thing where they have a seperate frame with the results so you end with with two scroll bars.
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Matt

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#330856 - 07/03/2010 13:50 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5402
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: Robotic
I don't want to have to wiggle my mouse around to get the top bar to magically appear. I just want to click immediately on 'maps' or 'gmail' or any of the other nifty links in the top bar.

??

Unless you are a much faster "mouser" than I am, I don't see where the problem is. I have Google as my home page, and when I open it I cannot get my mouse cursor even half way up the screen before the top bar magically appears. In fact, just like Bruno ("I know, let's ask Mikey -- he hates everything") I never even noticed it until you pointed it out.

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#330863 - 07/03/2010 16:24 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: tanstaafl.]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The reason I didn't notice is because I haven't used the Google main page in a while. smile I like to have Safari's Top Sites as my home and new tab/window page, leaving me to use the search box built into the browser to initiate most searches.

When i search from the browser directly, Google's top bar is immediately visible, unlike when hitting Google.com directly. Now that I think about it, I believe I'd read something about this change (or this type of change) being tested by Google. It's not so much the speed of the fade, but rather the lack of any indication that there are more navigation options available at all until you first move the mouse. Of course with no indication that you should even move the mouse at all to possibly see them.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330870 - 07/03/2010 22:00 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12148
Loc: Sterling, VA
I really don't see the big deal. I think that most people who regularly use Google apps do not access it from the Google homepage. Heck, you don't even have a direct link up there to Calendar or Docs or several other useful apps (you have to click the drop-down).

100% of the time that I go to the Google homepage, I'm there to do a search. This is usually on other people's computers. Otherwise I search from the address bar in Chrome or the search bar in Firefox.
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Matt

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#330875 - 07/03/2010 22:17 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Dignan]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
I search from the address bar in Firefox. About the only reason I go to the Google homepage is to grab a quick map or check gmail.
I could make bookmarks for those or make one of the other my homepage, I guess, but once you start into a habit it's annoying to have to break it.

Why can't I just have a setting in Google preferences that gets rid of the 'fade-in' effect?
I have this option in Windows for menus...
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#330907 - 09/03/2010 13:25 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: Robotic


The idea is sound, but the execution is complete shite. It also doesn't work properly in standards-compliant browsers. When you group results together, there's no scroll bar for the non-ebay matches. Even if you push the results to a new window, there will be no scroll bar. Tested Safari 4.0.4 and a recent build of Chrome.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330909 - 09/03/2010 13:36 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Originally Posted By: Robotic


The idea is sound, but the execution is complete shite. It also doesn't work properly in standards-compliant browsers. When you group results together, there's no scroll bar for the non-ebay matches. Even if you push the results to a new window, there will be no scroll bar. Tested Safari 4.0.4 and a recent build of Chrome.


Works for me on Firefox. I'm sure the author would be happy to hear your comments, though.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#330911 - 09/03/2010 14:07 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I've already sent feedback with the browsers/systems I've tested with showing this problem. I've also verified that Firefox 3.6 works as expected.

At first I thought the lack of scroll on the initial list was by design, but then I also noticed it was missing on the new window. Wish there was a way to force one "on" in Safari.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330954 - 11/03/2010 17:21 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: Robotic]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Robotic
Why can't I just have a setting in Google preferences that gets rid of the 'fade-in' effect?
I have this option in Windows for menus...


You do - I only ever go to igoogle - set whatever config you like.

Simples!
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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#330995 - 12/03/2010 21:10 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: frog51]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Searchtempest is now working properly in Safari and Chrome browsers. The only minor annoyance is that an extra google search box is displayed with the results. The author let me know that for some reason, when you turn that off, it also causes the scroll bar to turn off for Safari. Likely something in Google's code, since the views causing the issues are actually code google returns back.

Nathan, the author, also let me know that the site is going to be completely refreshed with a new "awesome" design. It's a nice resource already and I'm also looking forward to them supporting Kijiji.


Edited by hybrid8 (12/03/2010 21:11)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#330996 - 12/03/2010 21:19 Re: Website re-design leaves site completely worthless [Re: hybrid8]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Nice! I'm glad you like it.

Sounds like some good improvements are in the works.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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