Lots of car player discussion, and - erm - various other things

http://biz.yahoo.com/oo/010627/60589.html

Rob

Argh, of course I can't get it to play on my Linux browser. Will they never learn?

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

I'm running netscape 4.77 on redhat 6.2, with realplayer 8, and the plugin.. actualy.. i think the realplayer plugin is realplayer 7. works great.. :)

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

Very interesting stuff, Rob. So there's a server in beta testing? How is this different than the Rio receiver? I'm assuming this is what you were alluding to in the thread about the HP device.

Thank god I'm allowed to listen to this stuff at work

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

There's nothing in testing that I can talk about. I guess that's why we have a CEO.

Rob

So that is what you are making it sounds very cool looks like i will have to start saving my pennys can't wait for you to tell us all the nitty gritty so will it upload to the empeg or can't you tell us that

so will it upload to the empeg or can't you tell us that

I could swear he covered that in the interview.


___________
Tony Fabris

OK, for those of you who can't or don't want to listen to a real media stream, here are a few bits and pieces I picked up (hope I got it right ).

SonicBlue have a server in beta testing that will serve to the RioReciever and the empeg/RioCar, at least some time in the future. The first version will use this funny phone line networking that the Americans seem keen on, but they are also working on networking solutions that use power circuits and WaveLan.

There seemed to be plans to produce a RioCar with WaveLan too, as well as an OEM solution - there are discussions taking place with a major automotive manufacturer.

A pity he didn't mention empeg though - said they had been shipping the RioCar for a couple of months, which is technically true, but the hardware itself has been shipping much longer than that! Anyone got more to add?

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

Is this the SQL-server I heard rumour about on the receiver BBS? or is some *other* protocol used?

Frank van Gestel

The CEO also talked about some future possibilities with the ReplayTV technology they own now. If I caught the hint right, there may be a server-receiver type setup for video down the road. Very cool indeed, I just hope they get some integration with satellite providers. I would find it awesome to have one system in the living room, and be able to watch any pre-recorded program in my bedroom.

Maybe you could have the empeg feeding one of those little tft screens via the ethernet connection and wee decoder thingy off in the distant futre

Another non-car player topic was the announcement of a DVD/VCR combo machine.

Frankly, I think this is a bad idea

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

This isn't new - it's a Sensory Science product, whom we just acquired. They also developed Rave MP3 products, but those have now been discontinued.

Rob

Frankly, I think this is a bad idea

What, I suppose you think a combination 8-track/cassette player wouldn't be a good idea either, then?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

He also said that the server thing will have internet access. I thought it was interesting how it was emphazised that the rio car and rio reciever (even more so) are designed to use this server as their main source of music. He said something to the effect of "until this server thing comes out you can use your regular computer as a server."

Sorry about the blunt statement. I guess I can see some appeal to the idea. Although, I usually buy DVDs that I would want to watch more than once, and I've often been under the state of mind that something that does multiple things doesn't do all of them well. I'd love to see the specs for the unit Rio is producing!

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

I would say anything with a VCR built in is bad because the VCR wii break in a year

I see I am not the only one that has that problem ... Christ the money I have spent on VCRs. I could have bought 2 new empegs for that. Take the Sony SLV-625 I have in front of me right now. Was a really expensive bugger. Still works but if you record something with it, you get interference, color going in and out, bad audio etc. It still plays okay and serves as a tuner for my Alpha when I want to capture a TV show but that is it. And this was like their flagship VCR at the time for crying out loud. I had it only 2 weeks when I clued in to the bad recording problem and returned it for warranty repair. It was gone for several weeks, came back and worked only marginally better after that. But it never did work ok. I think I have had like 12 VCRs over as many years. Then I just gave up. After the Sony which was the last one I bought, and I choose that one because I though if I take the more expensive one I will be less likely to deliver bad quality, I decided that was it for me.

On a side note, as it happens I ordered a WinTV-PVR card yesterday. That's a TV card but with built in MPEG1 and MPEG2 encoder allowing you to record directly in MPEG. With a little luck this will be my next VCR. I was thinking of something like the Tivo's and ReplayTV's but I feel it is not yet adjusted to the European market well enough. And I want to be able to stuff my recordings on say a VCD. Which you can do with Tivo and probably also ReplayTV but it's al a litle dubious I gathered sofar.

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

I was told, many years ago, that when you buy VCR's, you should buy ones made by Matsushita or any of their sub-companies. For instance, Panasonic is one of the sub-companies of Matsushita. I'm pretty sure Sony is not a sub-company of Matsushita.

Reason: I was told that the VCR transport mechanisms made by Matsushita are the most reliable. We have a Panasonic VCR that's been going strong for something like 7-8 years or something like that.

___________
Tony Fabris

... when you buy VCR's...,

Don't even consider buying a VCR.

The hard-disk TV recorders (TiVo, RePlay) are so totally, overwhelmingly superior to a VCR in every respect that a VCR shouldn't even be on your list of last-resort options.

Even if you didn't use the TiVo and RePlay scheduling services, just used the machine as a "dumb" recorder it would still be superior, and when you do use their service... it's like the empeg, you won't really "get it" until you actually get your hands on one and use it for a day or so, then you'll wonder how you ever got by without it.

If you like your empeg, you'll love a Tivo or RePlay.

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Hmmm, I might have to look further I see. Still with no local dealers around I find it a little tricky.

Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

I can't WAIT to get a Tivo. Hell, my girlfriend can't wait for me to get a Tivo!

The only problem is that I have yet to see if a phone line can be installed by my TV. I'm having the phone company come out anyway for some other business, so we'll see...

I forget who linked that refurbished model to me in the other thread on this subject, but thank you! That'll be really helpful on my budget.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

In reply to:

---

Refurbished ?

---

oooooooh any more of those ?

Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

you won't regret getting a TiVo.. I'm watching MST3k that was on at 8am on saturday.. MST3k is much better for watching on a lazy sunday afternoon of cleaning the house.
don't worry too much about the phone line.. it comes with a huge 50' cord. :)

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

oooooooh any more of those ?

Here

But I'll be pissed if you take the last one before I get a chance to buy one!

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Don't even consider buying a VCR.

The hard-disk TV recorders (TiVo, RePlay) are so totally, overwhelmingly superior to a VCR in every respect that a VCR shouldn't even be on your list of last-resort options.

I'd agree with you completely, except for 2 things:

1. Recording quality on both ReplayTV and TiVo is pretty terrible unless you use the highest quality mode; and even then, there are obvious visual artifacts which simply don't exist on an SVHS VCR (which can generally be had now for under $200). These artifacts are even worse if you're recording off DSS - source -> MPEG/2 VBR -> S-Video -> MPEG/2 CBR. Of course, the DirectTV/TiVo (or UltimateTV, if you're into that sort of thing ;) solves the latter nicely by just recording the digital stream.

2. You can't easily archive things for long-term future use, unless you either add drive space (like making a ReplayTV that can store 40-60 high quality hours) and simply leave things on the unit, or dump them to videotape (in which case you still need a VCR). Sure, you _can_ grab the digital video directly off one and use a DVD burner or downconvert it to VideoCD or SVCD, but that involves a lot of effort.

Don't get me wrong - I own both a ReplayTV (currently a big useless brick, since its modem is broken, but I'll be sending it away for repairs soon) and a DirecTV/TiVo (bought to substitute for the ReplayTV brick :), and I love both of them. They totally change the way you watch TV. But a VCR is still necessary for anything that needs to be kept long-term, if you watch a lot of TV.

-----
Daniel M. Zimmerman, Caltech Computer Science
Mk.2 #060000058, 36GB
Mk.1 #00101, 10GB

[i...]with no local dealers around...

Forget local dealers... try here

They're even offering a $100 rebate and free shipping (oops, free shipping offer expired three hours ago, sorry...) and their service is extraordinarily professional and of the highest quality.

Oh, and forget the $100 rebate, too. Get a coupon for a $100 mail-in rebate when you order the SVR-2000! (Valid through 6/30/01.)

Perhaps I should amend what I said to say that "...their service is sort of professional..."

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I'd agree with you completely, except for 2 things:

Both of your points are excellent.

I forget that not everybody watches television the way I do... I don't subscribe to cable TV, I just watch what the local stations offer, and their signal quality is marginal even with a gigantic outdoor antenna on my roof. I find that recording at the lowest quality setting on the TiVo is indistinguishable from watching it live, so the quality issue never even occurred to me.

And since I only watch local TV, the concept of archiving something on a more or less permanent basis never occurred to me either. I mean, I should archive some dreary sit-com or mind-numbing drama that will be repeated in six months as a re-run anyway?

What I love about TiVo is that I haven't watched a television commercial since January. Which, now that I think about it, may not be such an advantage -- the commercials are probably more entertaining than most of the programming I get...

It's nice having the TiVo "take care of me" by recording anything and everything it thinks I might like -- once I've told it the kind of programming I like to watch, it hunts it down and records it for me with no intervention on my part, so I never miss anything I want to see.

As TiVo says in their advertising, once you have TiVo, you won't watch television anymore. You'll watch TiVO.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Well, sounds good, but can I use it ... If it is just to be a dumb VCR (considering it seems unlikely that Tivo Service or whatever it is called is offered in Belgium) then my idea of using the WinTV-PVR seems the better one. For me it is a bit of archiving, sometimes shows, sometimes a special news event, the occasional live performance on local stations. You know, nothing big, just something that tickles my fancy. For most shows I like there is already a lot of people that make high quality digital encodings of those already, perfect for what I want (VCD's mostly). Often months before the show even gets to the dark side of the planet i.e. Belgium.

The only thing I am a little worried about is quality of the WinTV-PVR encodings. Like with most product left and right some people have decided the quality of it was bad. I usually tend not to listen to that too much. Let's face it, half those reviews are tainted or incorrect because the reviewer had no idea what he was doing. Even the empeg has had his share of bashing so.

Is there anyone here who can enlighten me as to the Tivo idea. I know there is a lot on the web on it but I just want to know what it is like, does it work without Tivo service and what does it loose in functionality. Is it possible and easy (well for someone like me that is) to get the encodings off for archival purposes etc. Private or email is ok if you feel it is too off-topic.

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

I would be interested in how well the Tivo works without the subscription service as I can't see the subscription service making it to Australia in the near future either...

That's a small bit of a problem. Fortunately, (if I remember correctly) Andrew Tridge (of Samba fame) ran into the same problem.

I say Fortunately, as there have been quite a few REALLY cool hacks coming from Tridge getting his system to work.

It's really worth looking around to see what is possible with these things... And I've got to admit, Andrew Tridge is one of the most persistant TRUE hackers around...

So, At least in part, if you are willing to do a bit of work, the TiVo works in Oz. Tridge has already done most of it.

Don't Australia use PAL and not NTSC, though?

Hugo

BLAM !

I knew it was too good to be true, we use PAL ...

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

and because you don't have cable, you miss out on the cool IBM commerials with the guys from another dimension.. or the discovery channel adds with the guys dressed up as meteors..

"oh look.. the atmosphere.. ahhhhhhh"

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

the TiVo hardware can support pal, and suppsedly there have been some hacks to have it do pal recording.. don't know how well it works.. but that's the rummor mill for ya

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

...does it work without Tivo service and what does it loose in functionality.

Without the TiVo service, the TiVo will act like a regular VCR, but with some pretty serious enhancements. You will be able to record whatever you want, but instead of specifying it by title (and having the TiVo record it no matter what day/time it shows up) you have to tell it to record by date/time. You can tell it to record every day, or every Tuesday (or whatever) at a given time.

The enhancements include things like...

You won't lose a recording because you ran to the end of your videotape. When the TiVo is full, it automatically deletes the oldest program (unless you have told it that that program is to be saved.)

You can watch a program previously recorded on the TiVo at the same time it is recording another program.

You can watch TV live on the TiVo, and pause the program for up to 30 minutes and then resume where you left off. (TiVo automatically recordes into a temporary file any live event your are currently viewing.

You won't lose a program because your videotape got all twisted and jammed during rewind.

You have instant random access (by program title!) to every single thing that is currently stored in the TiVo. You can watch as many different programs as you want simultaneously -- well, not simultaneously, but you can skip from one to another, and when you go back to a previous one it picks up right where you left off.

You can skip commercial breaks much more readily with the TiVo than with a videotape -- the FF speed is 60x normal, so you can zip through a 4 minute commercial break in 4 seconds. TiVo automatically compensates for the "overshoot" when you release the FF button.

You don't have to label, sort, and store videotapes, or try to remember which videotape you over-wrote to record the Canadian Grand Prix Formula One race. Even without the TiVo service, Tivo labels the programs by program name. Or does it? Now that I think about it, it may be applying program titles from the TiVo database, not from the signal source. Someone help me out here...

I have heard of TiVos hacked with as much as 120GB of hard drive -- over 100 hours of capacity. That would make a stack of videotapes over three feet tall even if you recorded the videotapes at lowest quality. And imagine trying to find the program you want to watch, stored somewhere in the middle of one of seventeen videotapes, each tape sith six hours or programming on it, and the only way you can check is to go through each tape serially. Why, that would be like trying to find a particular song in a stack of 150 CDs, instead of just pushing a button or two on your empeg...

Other than the archiving and picture quality issues pointed out above by Dan Zimmerman, the TiVo has *every* advantage over a VCR. And (this is just my somewhat naive opinion) there is very little on television that is worthy of extraordinary picture quality.

Hmmm... I better be careful, or people will start to think that I like my TiVo.

ps: I use the term TiVo generically. I am sure the RePlay hard disk system has every advantage that the TiVo does.

tanstaafl.


"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

ok I bought one I hope you're all happy :-)

169.00 for the 20 hour at target (department store)

how many more consumer electronics devices that use linux can I get

UK tivo's do PAL (obviously). I'd wait for a launch in your own country though, TiVo is not very impressive without the programme guide!

Hugo

Chances are I am old and grey by then, get real Hugo, cutting edge technology and Belgium do not mix. Closest we ever came was Lernout and Hauspie and we all know whats up with that ...

Voice recognition software anyone ?

Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

L&H's VR was a bit big. We're looking at smaller solutions designed for noisy environments.

Hugo

I was actually hinting to their current ... ehm ... legal and logistical problems ...

(Ed: for those of you that don't speak lawyer -- they locked their sorry asses in jail)

Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

Just a little something you might want to check out. I've got one on order, can't wait to play around with it. More toys for everyone!
Terapin - CD Video Recorder

________
Donato
MkII/Blue/40GB/080000565

TiVo is not very impressive without the programme guide!

True -- not compared to what TiVo (or RePlay) is with the programme (aargh, now you've got me doing it!) the program guide. But compared to a VCR, it is IMHO superior in just about every respect.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"