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#336777 - 06/09/2010 13:44 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: andy]
pedrohoon
enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
Originally Posted By: andy


I'll see if there is some decent light tomorrow.


I thought DSLRs didn't need 'decent light'. whistle
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#336778 - 06/09/2010 13:45 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Yes, the lack of a built-in flash is annoying for me as well. I usually do not use it much, but there are cases when it is indeed nice to have.

I wouldn't really mind a FF sensor, though. In the future, should FF sensors become available to cameras of the 7D/50D/40D... segment, I'd consider it. While I have no direct experience of it, FF are supposed to also produce much less noise, all other factors held constant, for "obvious" physical reasons.
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#336780 - 06/09/2010 15:27 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: taym
I wouldn't really mind a FF sensor, though. In the future, should FF sensors become available to cameras of the 7D/50D/40D... segment
Aren't there problems with FF sensors with current lens mounts, where large aperture settings (f4 and wider) give poor results at the edges of the sensor, and long focal length lenses only use about 70% of the sensor's pixels?

If I understand it correctly, until the manufacturers produce a body with a larger diameter lens mount, the FF sensors are not being used to anything like their full advantage.

Or maybe I misunderstand it entirely... smile

tanstaafl.
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#336781 - 06/09/2010 16:17 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: tanstaafl.]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
Or maybe I misunderstand it entirely... smile

Yes.

FF cameras began decades ago, with the introduction of 35mm film for still shots. The vast majority of film cameras out there use 35mm "sensors" (film).

With digital, we just replace the film with a digital sensor of the same dimensions, at the same point in the camera body.

Issues with light fall-off in the corners can be a concern if the maker doesn't take it into account in the microlenses (on the sensor), but Nikon and Canon both handle this just fine.

Cheers

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#336790 - 06/09/2010 20:50 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok,one of the things I was planning to do is bulb-photography. I tried with mixed fortune last summer, including pictures at night sky, and now I'm also considering some remote shutter control for a 7D (yes, I decided to go with the 7D smile ).

I've been looking around but I was not successful in forming a clear opinion. What I want to do is simple:
1. Click on the remote so that the shutter opens while camera is perfectly still;
2. Possibly, leave the shutter open without having to keep my finger on the remote button;
3. Push the remote button to eventually close the shutter when I want.

What would you recommend? Wired or wireless? Canon originals (RS-80N3 seems to do all I want and it is wired, for example, but I have no particular preference over it) or other recommended brands and models? Would it make sense to look for some more features other than the ones above that may result useful?

Remotes I found range from 3 Euros wireless "empeg-style" to 180 Euros by Canon. I suppose my needs are quite basic, but I don't mind spending more and avoid that the remote breaks in my hands or the first time it drops on the floor.
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#336801 - 07/09/2010 00:45 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: taym
Canon originals (RS-80N3...


DealExtreme is your friend. Eg., this basic unit, or this fancy one.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (07/09/2010 00:52)

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#336803 - 07/09/2010 05:34 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Thank you Mark. They look like what I need. Also, it is nice that wired ones don't need batteries.
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#336809 - 07/09/2010 11:29 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
I think the fancier one, with the LCD screen, does use a small battery.

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#336825 - 07/09/2010 16:03 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: taym
I don't mind spending more and avoid that the remote breaks in my hands or the first time it drops on the floor

Originally Posted By: mlord
DealExtreme is your friend

Agreed. Stuff you get from DealExtreme will definitely not break in your hands or if it falls on the floor.

Because it will in all likelihood break before it ever arrives at your door.

In the unlikely event that it gets delivered in working condition, do not look directly at the item, as the pressure of your gaze will almost certainly cause it to break.

You might also want to go ahead and order a dozen of them, to increase the probability of you getting more than three shots off with them.
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#336826 - 07/09/2010 16:13 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The remotes marked linked to are generally fine. I have one (a YongNuo for Nikon) I purchased from DE and it's quite solid. The same remotes are being sold on eBay, and at least that manufacturer has a constant presence in this market.
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#336834 - 07/09/2010 17:29 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: wfaulk]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: wfaulk
Because it will in all likelihood break before it ever arrives at your door.
I have purchased a fair number of items from DealExtreme, and have never had the slightest bit of trouble with any of them.

I understand that when I buy a multi-meter for $13.66, I am not getting a tool with Fluke robustness and quality, but I am also not paying $430 for it! I set my expectations appropriate to the price, and have never been disappointed. I am quite pleased with my DealExtreme multi-meter, which actually has more features than the Fluke meter linked above.

tanstaafl.
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#336836 - 07/09/2010 17:49 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: tanstaafl.]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Unfortunately most of what I have bought from DX wasn't just disappointing, it just didn't work.
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#336840 - 07/09/2010 19:03 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: tanstaafl.]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
I am quite pleased with my DealExtreme multi-meter, which actually has more features than the Fluke meter linked above.

I'm glad you're pleased with it, but it hardly has more features:

DE: Resistance, AC Volts, DC Volts, AC Current, DC Current, Capacitance, Transistor current gain

Fluke: Resistance, AC Volts, DC Volts, AC Current, DC Current, Capacitance, Frequency, Temperature, Continuity/Diode test

To be fair, the continuity/diode test is trivial, but it is nice to have the beep, which the DE one may or may not have. On the other side of the coin, no one uses the transistor tester on a multimeter. It must be super-trivial to implement, because it's there on every cheapo multimeter.

So the Fluke has two more features (Frequency and Temperature) than the DE one, and has a number of usability features, the most important of which is that it's autoranging. The DE one is not, which is what makes it appear to have more features at first glance, since there are more positions on the selector.

Then the one you linked to is waterproof, ruggedized, etc. A more basic Fluke is around $225. Still a hell of a lot more than $13.66, given.
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#336848 - 08/09/2010 00:59 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: wfaulk]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
I wonder whether a wireless remote makes sense for different and creative usage of the camera, where you are standing away from it. I can't think exactly what creative uses, though smile . I am thinking out loud.
Another advantage of the wireless remotes is that they are smaller, it seems to me, on average, than wired ones.
Still, from the specs of RC-1 and RC-5 by Canon, I can't understand if you can lock the shutter open, or even just keep it open by keeping the button pressed.

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#336857 - 08/09/2010 11:31 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Both of the wired remotes I linked above (DX) can lock the shutter open.

I have the Canon equivalent of the simpler one (no DX back then), and use it a lot for tripod shots.

But I also have a wireless remote, from DX. So far, I use it only for group photos that I am also a part of -- so I can get into the picture too.

The only other possible use I see for it here, might be to get animal / bird shots. Set up the camera/tripod where the beasts roam, and sit with the wireless remote a small distance away.

The wireless remotes are NOT smaller: they require two pieces: one at the camera, one in your hand. And both pieces need batteries.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (08/09/2010 11:33)

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#336858 - 08/09/2010 11:38 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
More useful than a wireless remote, is a wireless flash release. This lets you place an external speedlight pretty much anywhere (at any angle to the subject), and trigger it without having to also trigger the harsher onboard flash.

I have two kits for that from DX, and they get used reasonably often.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (08/09/2010 11:39)

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#336859 - 08/09/2010 12:35 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Mark, will the wireless remote you have lock the shutter open? Just curious.
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#336865 - 08/09/2010 15:21 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: mlord
without having to also trigger the harsher onboard flash.

I've found that a piece of translucent scotch tape works great for taking the edge off. In a pinch, I've also used a kleenex draped over the flash. My current camera (Nikon D80) allows me to control the brightness of the onboard flash. I usually have it set a couple of stops below full power, which takes the edge off very nicely.

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#336875 - 08/09/2010 19:31 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: taym
Mark, will the wireless remote you have lock the shutter open?

According to the instruction sheet that came with it, there's a push-and-hold function (3 secs) that locks the shutter open (camera in Bulb mode). It then stays open until the remote button is pressed again.

Cheers

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#336876 - 08/09/2010 19:35 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: canuckInOR]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: canuckInOR
I've found that a piece of translucent scotch tape works great for taking the edge off.

I was thinking more of just the full-frontal direction of the light. Side lighting is usually much nicer.

Cheers

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#336878 - 08/09/2010 20:25 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: mlord
Originally Posted By: canuckInOR
I've found that a piece of translucent scotch tape works great for taking the edge off.

I was thinking more of just the full-frontal direction of the light. Side lighting is usually much nicer.

Oh, yes... I almost added that I'm still stuck with the flash being stuck on top of the camera instead of being off to the side. smile

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#336884 - 08/09/2010 22:49 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Originally Posted By: mlord
According to the instruction sheet that came with it, there's a push-and-hold function (3 secs) that locks the shutter open (camera in Bulb mode). It then stays open until the remote button is pressed again.


Very interesting! Thank you for checking. I am now considering a wireless one. I mean, these things are quite inexpensive, I may very well get thet type (wired/wireless) that looks interesting and, if worse comes to worst, get the other type as well.

I got myself this tripod. I hope it turns out to be good: http://joby.com/gorillapod/slrzoom/
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= Taym =
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#336892 - 08/09/2010 23:37 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Okay, I just found a battery for it (the type-23A 12V minicell was dead), and tried it out on bulb. Seems to work as advertised. wink


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#336893 - 08/09/2010 23:47 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Hey, your office is haunted, though! You'd better address THAT problem, instead of playing with your camera! wink

Thank you again for trying this, and the picture is cool smile . I am now leaning towards the wireless. I don't like the battery but it seems to me it gives a bit more flexibility.
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#336894 - 08/09/2010 23:50 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: taym
I got myself this tripod. I hope it turns out to be good: http://joby.com/gorillapod/slrzoom/
I have two of those kicking around the house, but have not had good luck with them, they are not sturdy enough to be useful. They seem to come in various sizes/strengths, so hopefully the one you ordered will be adequate to the task.

tanstaafl.
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#336897 - 09/09/2010 00:02 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: tanstaafl.]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
I got the SLR+zoom, supposedly holding 3 Kg max. I should be below that, and I haven't tried it yet. But it does feel a bit too soft in my hands.
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#336898 - 09/09/2010 00:06 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: taym
HI am now leaning towards the wireless. I don't like the battery but it seems to me it gives a bit more flexibility.


Sure. The specific wireless one I have is this one. There may be better ones on DX now, but that's what was available when I went hunting a few years ago.

It uses a type 23A (12V) battery in the remote (same as inside my Subaru key fob), and a CR2 (3V) lithium battery in the receiver.

DX has both kinds of batteries cheap(!) in packs of five (and I've just now ordered replacements).

The wireless flash relays I have from DX also use the CR2 batteries.

Cheers

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#336900 - 09/09/2010 00:19 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Oh! It's RF! I was for some reason expecting an IR, like for example the Canon RC-1.

And I seem to understand from the pic that you can actually change frequency, can't you? Very nice...
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#336901 - 09/09/2010 00:20 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
There are other, similar models on DX now. Eg. this one, which sounds better than the one I have.

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#336916 - 09/09/2010 11:25 Re: Canon EOS 60D [Re: mlord]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok, I am reconsidering wired ones. They seem to have some nice timer-related features.

This one here

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330403658644&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

looks identica to the original Canon TC-80N3 and allows:

1. Intermittent shutter releasing (e.g. one picture per 12 secs)
2. Time exposure (e.g. 4mins 32secs)
3. Timer - delayed shutter release (up to 99h 59mins 59s)
4. Number of shutter releases for continuous shooting: 1-399 or indefinite

Costs 1/5 of the original, also.
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MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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