Oh, I forgot to reply to this. Unlike Tom, I couldn't name any specific variable focus phones, but I do know that a number of them exist, including I believe, at least a couple of models from Samsung. Samsung might also be the only ones I remember using one of those lauded sensors I mentioned earlier. I remember them having 5 and 8MP models with auto focus and a real flash for instance.

The fact the iPhone 3Gs has focusing ability however doesn't make the pictures any less grainy. Great if you're going after that Monet look (need to see the images direct from camera, 1:1).

Nice review. Makes me more impatient for its release on Verizon.

I did a hands-on with the Pre at a Sprint store. My first impressions after years of Treo 650 use:

Nice hardware! Fits the hand perfectly.

"Gummy" keyboard not great; keys not raised enough. Can be overcome.

Gesture area is awesome.

Intuitive UI, once you remember about gesturing.

Multitask is fast, intuitive, and simply awesome.

A tiny bit slow to respond sometimes.

"Weighted" momentium scrolling is too fast/light. I always prefer absolute input (keyboard shortcuts) over relative input (mouse and weighted scrolling).

Retained some classic design elements, like choosing appointment time from a vertical list.

"EDIT > COPY", first entry on every menu.

Small web text looks fine.

Haha, "self portrait mirror" stashed behind slide out.

I'm a little confused. I've used a Blackberry and a G1 in the last couple years, and both have their different ways of telling you which mode you're in. After that, knowing what character is going to appear is a matter of simply looking at the keyboard. What's so confusing about that?

I don't recall how it worked on my old Treos, but I'd be willing to bet that those phones had a way of informing you of the current mode.

These comments about "I'll never get another point&shoot" are pretty interesting. I think this is one of those "128kbit MP3s are all anybody ever needs" kinds of things. For many people, they really and truly don't need 12 megapixels of glorious high-resolution low-noise expensive-glass D-SLR goodness, and phones are now getting good enough to do the job. (I've made 4x6 prints from my iPhone 3G and they look every bit as good as 4x6 prints from anything else, but I wouldn't try to blow them up, and I lucked out in terms of getting proper exposure from the get-go.)

My very first digital camera (a Canon G1, circa late 2000) was three megapixels and I loved that thing. Unsurprisingly, phones with three megapixels are enough for many people's needs.

As such, I'd expect the low-end point-and-shoot market, the $100 cheapo models, to suffer. I have less worry about the $250+ nerdy models with HD video, high-ISO performance, and so forth. While some of the cell phone vendors are integrating "real" lens systems and sensors, this increases thickness. Hard to say how that will all shake out.

I wouldn't worry about the D-SLR market. "Serious" photographers will always be looking to step up to something that doesn't fit in their pocket.

The Treo 650 clearly and consistently indicates what mode the keyboard is in. In the lower left of every window, there's a symbol for shift (arrow), caps lock (underlined arrow), num/symbol (circle), or num/symbol lock (underlined circle).

This has been carried forward to the Pre, perhaps more clearly yet less consistently. It shows the symbol right near the cursor, bringing it closer to your attention.

Unlike the consumer-grade phones which don't care to preserve consistency of input and OS through the years, the Pre keyboard is very familiar to Palm users and the drastically advanced OS has even maintained some similarities. They make the transition, and user retention, easy.

It isn't just about how many megapixels the camera is though. The quality & size of the sensor and the optics is what really makes the difference.


Its an improvement but still not enough for me to lose the "proper" digital camera.

Cell phones are inherently limited to what can be shoved inside a pocket. Even with fancy folded optics, that's going to limit what they can do. Still, it's safe to predict that the cheapest digital cameras, bought by people who aren't looking for the best optics and other features, are very much in the gunsights of the cell-phone vendors.

Interesting question: when will Canon, Nikon, and so forth put their name on a cell phone? What would a Leica-branded cell phone be (aside from a rebranded Panasonic product, of course)?

Somewhere, there's a joke picture to be taken with somebody holding a big telephoto lens up to their ear...

It gets confusing when you need a symbol not printed on the keyboard.

Looking at the keyboard and knowing if I'm in symbol or orange mode doesn't help to find the ~ \ [ } < or |. I could make some guesses, but I honestly have no idea where they would be. I'm also puzzled by the separate orange and symbol keys, when none of those seem to overlap.

I've always known what character I'll be typing on a virtual keyboard, be it the one on my iPaq, or the iPhone.

It's actually very intuitive. If you tap the Sym button, it pops up a symbol pad where you can scroll through all of the symbols. Or, you can hit Sym-E and then pick one of the accented E characters, Sym-R for the (R) symbol, Sym-C for the (C) symbol, etc.

Okay, I might be able to give you that, but the iPhone doesn't show every single symbol either, just a few additional ones. And other keyboards like the G1 have those symbols (heck, mine even has symbols for Pounds and Euros).

Besides, that was only half of Tony's statement. He also said that smartphones (other than the iPhone, of course!) don't give any indication as to what mode you're in. Clearly, we've had a Treo/Pre owner chime in and say that this isn't the case on the Pre. My Curve shows which mode you're in on the top right (it indicates symbol mode, shift, caps lock, and symbol lock). My G1 is more subtle, and just changes the cursor, using a carrot on the bottom or top depending on the mode (I can't remember which is which at the moment).

Meanwhile, here's a pro photographer who does artistic work, on the side, using an old Motorola cell phone's camera. NYTimes Lens Blog

Sprint has now officially called out the iPhone in its print advertising.

This type of message translated, loosely means "we're an also-ran and we know we have no hope of ever catching the competition, essentially we give up, but we'll keep chugging anyway."

Distant number two or three companies on the verge of becoming B-list brands are famous for this. Pepsi and Burger King to name two perfect examples.

What makes the Sprint example even more pathetic is that they're attacking a single product, not the network which they directly compete against, ATT. They also really need someone else to approve their ad copy. Read the last sentence in the ad again.

If Sprint were serious about promoting the Pre then they'd at least try to do a decent job pushing its benefits and price, without bringing the iPhone into it. That's not going to help them at all, but it does keep the iPhone on people's minds. Of course they have a lot more to worry about, even without factoring in that their exclusivity is for a limited time. For instance, running an antiquated network requiring phones that aren't compatible in any other market outside of the US/Canada. Their 4G is hardly there yet. And the Pre doesn't support it anyway.

Dude. Whatever.


I was going to argue that the punctuation after "Now Network" was a comma, but from other views, it's clearly not.

The fact that they have a Facebook account is a worse offense, though.

They have done so before as well, with the Instinct. The amusing thing about that campaign is that they made up a bunch of ads pitting the Instinct against the first iPhone. By the time the Instinct actually shipped, the iPhone 3G was also announced and near release, forcing Sprint to go back and take several of the ads down. At least this time the Pre is actually out, as is the 3GS.

When you have exclusive contracts with carriers, using the devices to sell the networks and vice versa is fair game. The Pre might as well be a "Sprint" product and the iPhone an "AT&T Product", at least in the U.S. AT&T sold a lot of 2-year contracts with the iPhone, and Sprint's trying to do the same.



Apple's a "distant number two or three" when it comes to desktop OS share, desktop/laptop sales, etc. With that in mind, how is this any different from the "I'm a Mac / I'm a PC" campaign? Sprint first calls out the competitor's weaknesses and explains how the Pre is better (using two of the major selling points, multitasking and a lower overall TCO.)

You have one or two valid points in there about the grammar SNAFU and the truthiness about 4G. But this is standard Madison Avenue marketing/advertising BS that every company, Apple included, engages in, and I have no idea how you can handle the cognitive dissonance of accusing Sprint of hitting below the belt when Apple does it regularly. The only reason they (and AT&T) don't do it with the iPhone is that they don't have to -- that's the benefit of being the BMOC.

Except that the overall TCO is not lower at the minimum level of entry, at least from what I can tell.

iPhone 3G 8GB = $99, 3GS 16GB = $199, 3GS 32GB = $299
Minimum voice/data plan $69.99/month - 450 minutes, unlimited data
2 year contract

Palm Pre 8GB = $299 (before a $100 mail in rebate)
Minimum voice/data plan $69.99/month - 450 minutes, unlimited data
2 year contract

I can't read the tiny disclaimer text at the bottom of the ad, but I would hope it explains whatever twisted logic they used to come up with a $1200 difference. Even adding the $20 unlimited text messaging plan to the iPhone makes the difference $480 at most.

On the web page fine print, it says "see value savings chart for details", also known as "Sir Not Appearing in This Ad".

This might be what they're referring to:

Sprint aren't hitting below the belt. It's fair game and yes, a lot of agencies and brands have gone the same route. I'm not even arguing, other than the crappy network and lack of 4G, that there's any untruth to it. But calling out a competitor BY NAME is weak and generally doesn't work except to further cement you in the follower position.

Apple's I'm a Mac ads do come close to this type of advertising, but they have not solely focused on calling out Microsoft. They have mentioned Vista a few times, which I also think was weak, though amusing (because most of those ads are). Apple is clearly the number two OS and there's little chance of that changing any time soon. Those ads aren't an attempt to do so nor do they ever imply there's ever a chance of that happening. I think most of them make it seem like they're content to be number 2 in quantity, but that they're visibly and empirically number 1 in quality.

What Palm needs is some non-sprint advertising that focuses on the benefits of the products. And not how the product will bring you to a zen state atop a hillside. Apple's products establish the iPhone as an Apple product. Even though they have an exclusive with ATT in the US, the iPhone is the farthest mobile handset from "co-branded" as you will find out there right now. I suspect most people, even in the US, don't immediately associate the iPhone to ATT. Palm needs this kind of distinction to promote itself, rather than their current network partner. But yes, this was a Sprint ad, so that's unrelated to this ad.

What I find most interesting about that ad is that it makes the assumption that iPhone owners are generally unhappy, and they are just chomping at the bit to get out of their contracts.

I'm sure a few might be, but I don't think that's a big enough market for them to target seriously.

First off, the Pre is $199, not $299. Yes, if you buy from a Sprint store you have to deal with a rebate, but you can get it for $199 out the door at Best Buy.

Second, the comparison is invalid because the Sprint plan includes unlimited text. Very few smartphone users go without a texting plan. Also, Sprint unlimited night minutes begin at 7pm, AT&T at 9pm. AT&T has rollover minutes, but I think the average user does better with unlimited after 7pm than they'll do with rollover.

If the bare minimum plan is okay and you never send a single text, the plans are roughly equivalent. Once you get into the plans a large majority of people will use, Pre + Sprint saves a lot of money. Whether it's $480 or the number Sprint's claiming.

You're basically making my points for me now.

Regarding co-branding, nobody needs to make an iPhone-AT&T association for it to be an example of co-branding. People buy iPhones based on the shiny Apple ads, which sells AT&T service plans. Apple and AT&T both have giant ad budgets, but Apple is famous for running good ad campaigns, and since the phone is the thing moving cell contracts and not vice versa, it makes sense for Apple to do the heavy lifting on the advertising front.

On the Palm/Sprint side, things are a lot different. Both are battered companies looking to make a comeback. Palm has the hot phone now, and it has definite advantages over the competition. Neither is known for great advertising. Why does Palm have to be the one to run the ads, and why do the ads have to focus only on the positive for them to be effective?

It's going to vary person to person. Yes, Sprint users with a Pre might spend less in 24 months then an iPhone user. And some iPhone users with AT&T are going to spend less. It all depends on their needs. Rollover minutes are going to be handy for the people making long calls around the holidays to relatives. 7pm nights are going to be handy for other people. Neither feature really makes the other side invalid.

Text plans, that is where I'll agree that AT&T is definitely ripping off their iPhone users more then Sprint is with Pre users. My needs are met by their $5 plan though, with no need to go to the full $20 a month. The initial iPhone included 200 messages a month as part of the $20 internet plan.

Overall, the differences are so minimal, that I highly question the "saves a lot of money" statement. Even with the $20 unlimited text plan factored in, you are still only talking 6.39 hours of work per year to make up the difference, based off the tech workers average wage in 2008. Bringing it down to the common average still only results in 12.36 hours. (both figures pre tax, so a little more should probably be factored in, but the ultimate point is that the difference is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things).

I am curious, does anyone here actually pay for the full unlimited plans offered by carriers? I personally would he happy to just drop the voice part of my plan all together, and use prepaid minutes instead.

Well, no advertisement is going to fail to use the largest number that they can. I don't think you can call out Sprint/Palm for that one.

I can't believe we're debating advertising.

I appreciate the attempt to transform the price difference into layman's terms, but in this case, it only serves to obscure the issue and understate the amount of money saved. I'd be willing to bet that a minority of those buying these phones is making the average tech worker's salary, and converting to "number of hours it takes to make up the difference" just muddies the waters further.

Stick with your original $480 number, which is the actual TCO difference for as close as you can get to equivalent plans. 480 bucks might not be much to the guy pulling in $78k, but it's still 480 bucks. If I saw 480 bucks sitting on the ground, I'd bend over to pick it up. If one phone is 480 bucks cheaper over the long run than another, it's relevant to my purchasing decision. And I *am* one of those lucky folks who are in the ballpark of the "average tech worker" salary.

But advertising is debatable, especially when there are points that can vary due to interpretation. It makes more sense to me than to debate a phone's features which at any point in time are at least factual/concrete.



That has yet to be demonstrated by public opinion and mindshare, let alone sales figures. The latest of which put the first weekend sales between 50k and 100k at "best/highest" estimates. I believe even the folks at Palm are a little worried because the only thing they really said about sales were that they were "pleased" - that's hardly bragging.



It's a nice phone compared to many other products out there. There's one particular product it can't really claim any advantages over for the average consumer though.



Nothing "has" to be one way or the other. I simply said that for Palm's greatest benefit, they would take a lead position on promoting their product and do so in such a way as to make it a favorable proposition in consumer's minds. That's generally accomplished by painting the product to be a good one, advocating its features and benefits. Not by letting your partner, who does not have a vested long-term interest in your company nor product, put out ads trying to paint the head and shoulders most lauded mobile product of the century as being inferior. Especially without providing even a single fact to back that assertion. Or worse, lies.

The iPhone has multitasked since day one. All iPhone models currently run multiple applications at the same time (just not any arbitrary group of applications and not third-party applications), and push notifications are as real-time as the network allows.

There's room out there for multiple products, and in Palm's position they need to move to make the Pre a viable choice, not let Sprint possibly damage their image while this exclusivity arrangement runs its course. I am sure that 199 out of 200 people would choose the iPhone over the Pre if given a straight up choice (ie. excluding all carrier concerns). Yes, I just pulled that figure out of my ass, but unlike what Sprint is advertising, I can back mine up with sales figures.

That's just disingenuous.

Regardless, the Sprint ad doesn't even say "multitask". It says "run multiple applications at the same time". Can you do that on an iPhone? Unless you consider "init" to be an application, the only reasonable answer is "no".


Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I mean, what are you trying to accomplish? There's some vague merit in being concerned about the future of the company in wanting to confirm continued support, but now you're just kvetching about trifling nonsense.

Wait. Are you a marketroid now? I'll bet you got an MBA, didn't you?

No, I didn't waste my time on an MBA. Marketing and advertising are two very different things, but I am interested in both. Anyway, since this forum doesn't have any particular topic nor format, I thought it would just make for interesting continued discussion.

As far as being able to run multiple applications on the iPhone... You can run the iPod software while you're running any third party application. Mail continues to run as well. Like I said previously, you can't necessarily run any arbitrary set of applications concurrently, but you're not limited to having only one task active at one time.

There are actually very few things I'd like to keep "running" concurrently, as opposed to caching out or suspending. Many applications can gracefully quit and start and do so very quickly on the 3GS. I'd hate to have to purposefully use some different command to quit every single app instead of just tossing it into the background. Hopefully continued pressure will be kept on Apple for them to allow at least some third party apps to run at all times (such as navigation/mapping apps) - I just don't know how they're going to decide which ones. The whole App Store approval process is already a bit of a land mine.

That said, I don't believe this "feature" of the Pre is significant enough to sway someone one way or the other (between it and the iPhone). I mean, running multiple applications isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway when you've only got 30 total to choose from.

Every "smart"phone I've ever owned, I've had a secure shell app. Virtually every time I use it, I realize I need some piece of information elsewhere on the device. So I go to the other app to get that information, the ssh connection drops, and I have to log in all over again, potentially repeating a lot of actions to get back to where I was.

Honestly, if either could promise me an SSH app that would just remain connected while I go do something else, I'd be sold.

A jailbroken iPhone running Backgrounder should do what you want. Though I'm betting the Pre will probably have an SSH client via their app catalog before the iPhone has an official background app method.

There are already at least two ssh apps for the Pre -- their names are openssh and dropbear. If we're including jailbroken apps for the iPhone, then the Optware packages built for Pre are fair game as well.

Okay, you do need a terminal app to use them from the Pre itself, and though there's no official terminal app, folks have installed a Debian chroot on their Pres and been working on getting a couple of terminal apps working. They're not 100% yet, but it's only been a few weeks, so I'll cut 'em some slack.